List Mgmt. Should I stay or should I go now? End of season list management discussion (now continued for 2020)

[KermitJagger]

The below names form our extraordinarily lengthy out-of-contract list for the end of 2019, as extracted from Footywire. Who do we keep? Who do we re-sign? You guys decide.

If there are any issues with the contract years in here, take it up with Footywire as I'm not the custodian of them.

Name	Final Year	Years Service*	Status
Conor Glass	2019​	4​	Non-Free Agent
Damon Greaves	2019​	1​	Non-Free Agent
Darren Minchington	2019​	1​	Non-Free Agent
David Mirra	2019​	2​	Non-Free Agent
Grant Birchall	2019​	14​	Unrestricted Free Agent
Harrison Jones	2019​	2​	Non-Free Agent
Jackson Ross	2019​	2​	Non-Free Agent
James Frawley	2019​	5​	Non-Free Agent
Jarryd Roughead	2019​	15​	Unrestricted Free Agent
Jonathon Ceglar	2019​	7​	Non-Free Agent
Marc Pittonet	2019​	5​	Non-Free Agent
Ned Reeves	2019​	1​	Non-Free Agent
Paul Puopolo	2019​	9​	Restricted Free Agent
Ricky Henderson	2019​	3​	Non-Free Agent
Ryan Schoenmakers	2019​	11​	Unrestricted Free Agent
Shaun Burgoyne	2019​	10​	Unrestricted Free Agent
Teia Miles	2019​	5​	Non-Free Agent
Tim O'Brien	2019​	7​	Non-Free Agent
Timothy Mohr	2019​	1​	Non-Free Agent
Will Golds	2019​	1​	Non-Free Agent

 

[WWSD]

Given the poor lack of key position players I wouldn’t be surprised if Mohr and Schoenmakers are kept on the list.

Mohr is on track to return during the pre-season I believe and I can see Schoenmakers being delisted and then redrafted as a rookie.

You would expect Jones and Jiath to be elevated to the senior list going into next year.

Golds and Greaves haven’t really done much this year at Box Hill but they are relatively young so they might be kept for another year.

Miles, Pittonet, Minchington, Mirra and Brand are all likely to be delisted.

 

[Gralin]

What about KB?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Miles, Pittonet, Minchington, Mirra and Brand are all likely to be delisted.

Brand is contracted.

Delisting Pitto when we do not have another ruck man?

 

[WWSD]

Brand is contracted.

Delisting Pitto when we do not have another ruck man?

Ceglar?

If McEvoy gets injured at any stage then Ceglar should come straight in. I personally don’t think that Pittonet is good enough at AFL level. In the games that he’s played he doesn’t really offer anything and is too slow.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Ceglar?

If McEvoy gets injured at any stage then Ceglar should come straight in. I personally don’t think that Pittonet is good enough at AFL level. In the games that he’s played he doesn’t really offer anything and is too slow.

He's played what? 10 games?

Ruckman take time. Ceglar isn't the answer, and is a FA.

 

[hfc70]

What about KB?

Way too old. Delisted from SEN but unless he wants to try & break Boomers games record I think there are better options.

 

[palmomagpie]

Roughead, Mirra, Poppy, Shoey (probably rookied), Miles all go I reckon. Poppy maybe a trade for steak knives

Reckon Mohr will be given one mohr shot to prove himself.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I'd delist ...

Greaves
Miles
Mohr
Schoenmakers


Rough to retire
Pop to retire
Cegs to take FA for more opportunity

Glass is a 50/50. Won't be surprised either way.

 

[Gralin]

Brand is contracted.

Delisting Pitto when we do not have another ruck man?

I can't find anything that indicates he is contracted for next year, only this year

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I can't find anything that indicates he is contracted for next year, only this year

I'm reading conflicting info now.

 

[Slick]

If it were up to me, I'd move on the following...
Minchington
Mohr
Miles
Greaves
Schoenmakers

And 'retire'...
Roughead
Puopolo
Birchall

That's still a heck of a lot of list turnover. I think there's a chance they could move on Mirra and Reeves too, but that would be a massive list cull, so I'll leave them off.

 

[VandoHawk]

Retirements and delistings will obviously depend on the success of our trade period. It seems as though we are in a similar situation to the end of 2010 where we have a good core of players but also a lot of ageing players/dead wood. At the end of that year we had 11 delistings and 1 precursor to Free Agency (Campbell Brown to GC). We added Puopolo/Smith through the draft, gave greater opportunity to guys like Bruest/Stratton and found ourselves in a Preliminary Final in 2011. I think that is a realistic goal for the 2020 season (recruitments pending) and some players may be forced into retirement/trades so we can maintain a stable salary cap.

Retirements: Roughead, Puopolo, Shoenmakers, Mohr
Delistings: Miles, Mirra
Players moved on via trade/retirement (other recruitments pending): Smith, Ceglar, Birchall, Brand (may be saved due to lack of key depth)

Obviously this is a pretty significant turnover but I think it is natural. In the coming years we will also be looking at replacing Frawley/Burgoyne/Stratton/Henderson/McEvoy so this year is a good opportunity to recalibrate the system while having more gradual changes in future.

 

[bumsonseats]

I tend to think of the starting point for any list management decisions as what trades/FA we are strongly linked to, and then add the 3 mandatory draft picks.
So for this year, it appears we can pencil in Patton, and jungle drums are beating louder and louder re: Cogs. And I wouldnt be surprised if we have something else on the boil ie. Hugh Greenwood or Hugh Dixon type.

So that leaves 3 possible in's, and 3 mandatory draft picks.
My outs

Rough - would love the big rough to stay on our list next year to mentor LM, but appears this will be his last year on our list
Schoey - great clubman and was the serial whipping boy when thrown in to do a job he wasnt really equipped for. Happy that he got to taste premiership success but time has come to move on. Thanks for the memories Schoey.
Miles - showed some promise last year and had high hopes, but just not been given a look in this year would indicate not part of future plans
Smith - if the rumours are true, then appears to on the trade block. Thanks for everything Smithy

So that's 4 we can semi-pencil in IMO.
So who else is on the Cusp (in no particular order of preference)

Ceglar - With the emergence of ML and TOB, our gameplan appears to be moving away from playing 2 rucks. Our ruck depth is not great but time to turnover our slower big guys. Possibly rookie list if Cegs doesnt get an opportunity elsewhere.
Pitto - same as Cegs, but his age may be in his favour with more possible upside. His games in the seniors this year were an improvement on earlier games he played.
Poppy - rumours of his demise appear grossly exaggerated. Clarko loves him and has publicly backed him for the role he plays in the side.
Minch - to injury prone. I am not quite confident enough to pencil him in.
Mirra - I think he cops a bad wrap on here, but I quite like what he brings. Gives us a bit of insurance down back for another year, but not sure he gets another year

And now for a couple of Smokeys
Birch - great that he has been able to get back, but where does the club see his future if we are rejuvenating.
Harry - great worth ethic and desire to improve, but generally doesnt impact game enough
KB - cant see us moving him on unless we have a ready made KPD on the hook.
Connor Glass - another year I think to show if he can develop as a mid, but tradable for right price


I dont take into account rookie changes, because there is no mandatory draft picks to be had.
But you would have to think that Ollie is a lock for a senior list spot.

Depending on what we do at the trade table, we could feasibly take 3 live picks to the draft + rookie upgrade.
If we keep our first rounder (pick 5-7), upgrade our 2nd rounder with possible Smith trade, then get Finn at discounted 3rd, plus rookie upgrade.

Would be a great off season if we pick up Cogs, Patton (I am not so sure but happy to be proved wrong), another targeted trade, plus a top 5 best avail mid, a late first rounder/early 2nd, pls Finn. But comes at a cost, and the cost is list turnover.

 

[Davo-27]

1. Roughead seems to be retiring and might coach at the Saints?
2. I.Smith wanting a trade to the WB?
3. Schoenmakers on the outer - delisted?
4. Glass, doesnt seem to be working out imo
5. Mirra likely moved back to the VFL
6. Pittonet likely moved back to the VFL
7. Miles - delisted
8. Mohr - retired
9. Puopolo - retired
10. Birchall - medicals and possible retirement?

with Pick 6-9 we could potentially pick up Luke Jackson - East Freo, great ruck prospect which could free us to trade/delist Ceglar like they wanted to last season?

 

[CHUBBSS]

1. Roughead seems to be retiring and might coach at the Saints?
2. I.Smith wanting a trade to the WB?
3. Schoenmakers on the outer - delisted?
4. Glass, doesnt seem to be working out imo
5. Mirra likely moved back to the VFL
6. Pittonet likely moved back to the VFL
7. Miles - delisted
8. Mohr - retired
9. Puopolo - retired
10. Birchall - medicals and possible retirement?

with Pick 6-9 we could potentially pick up Luke Jackson - East Freo, great ruck prospect which could free us to trade/delist Ceglar like they wanted to last season?

Based on the above list the top 9 is pretty good. I think Birch stays on in purely because too many list changes destabilises the group. You would make the argument that Smith shouldn't go UNLESS Bhill is coming back into the team and he knows the hawks way.

Ceglar should be traded if any value is had, we are light on in rucks but if Lewis and Obrien can pinch hit we look much better with one key ruck.

Our biggest area of weakness is that small dynamic forward or backman in the cyril and impey mould. Whatever we do we need more good ball uses that can apply pressure and offer goals. We find that and lewis and patton will look significantly better.

 

[SodaPop]

Reckon Poppy goes one more with 2 big forwards

 

[PhatHQ]

Full cleanout...

Minch delisted
Mirra delisted
Miles delist
Mohr delist

Cegs traded
Smith traded
Player X traded

Rough retirement

Pop retire/FA unmatched
Burgoyne retire/GC
Schoenmakers delist/FA unmatched/ re rookie

Langford off the books


12 in total....

4 - Players in via trade/FA
3 - draft
5 - rookies/min contract senior list 1 year

 

[Dr.J]

Reckon Poppy goes one more with 2 big forwards

I thought Poppy should have retired last year with a little left in the tank
Now sadly lacking any petrol tickets

 

[Pessimistic]

If cogs, another mid plus maguiness come in, Mitchell return.

Some of the current next in line mids may look for other opportunities. First one seems to be cousins

Thais is pure speculation, its the joey kennedy situation

 

[Dewnior]

Where are the TOB bashers? I haven't seen his name written anywhere in this thread

 

[JedAnderson]

Where are the TOB bashers? I haven't seen his name written anywhere in this thread

Rather get Rid of Nash

 

[beta_condition]

Roughead ~ Retire
Puopolo ~ Retire
Mohr ~ Delist
Minchington ~ Delist
Miles ~ Delist

Ceglar ~UFA
Birchall ~UFA
Schoenmakers ~ 1 year but will probably go as a UFA


Burgoyne ~ 1 year Body seems to be holding up and purer class goes around again.
Glass ~ 1 year The games not really clicking for him nor can I see a spot for him but he's got potential, so another year to see his wears.
Reeves ~ 1 year Big rookie ruck goes without saying another year or two.
Pittonet ~ 1 year Back up Ruckmen saves him, otherwise he would be gone.
Frawley ~ 1 year In great form, hopefully still has another 4 years left. Still got good agility.
Greaves ~ 1 Year Rookie done nothing wrong so should get another year.
Henderson ~ 1 year Career best year, been a nice surprise this year
Mirra ~ 1 year Every team needs that depth, might and probably will get cut but I like him as depth
Jones ~ 2 years Exciting young kid lock him in.
Ross ~ 2 years "" ""
Golds ~ 2 years "" ""
O'Brien ~ 2 years Career best year, looks like things might be clicking, VFL finals last year was the first time I thought maybe he can make it.

 

[Brant]

Reckon Poppy goes one more with 2 big forwards

Exactly!

 

[tommyk72]

I thought Poppy should have retired last year with a little left in the tank
Now sadly lacking any petrol tickets

Still has the most pressure acts in the F50 in the AFL if I'm not mistaken?