List Mgmt. Should I stay or should I go now? End of season list management discussion (now continued for 2020)

[rick_422]

Forgot to add the biggest bust of all one Tyrone Vickery. A classic example of the pitfalls of drafting former first round draft picks in the somewhat egotistical attempt to turn them around. God I still get s..
t from my mates who are Tiges supporters over that particular trade!

Was a free agent and not a trade. And brought in as cover because no one knew what would happen with Rough. Tyrones best was very good, worth the punt for mine considering we gave up nothing other than salary to get him...

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Was a free agent and not a trade. And brought in as cover because no one knew what would happen with Rough. Tyrones best was very good, worth the punt for mine considering we gave up nothing other than salary to get him...

Well we paid him 500k a year so it's not like it didn't cost the club salary space, etc.

In fact Tyrone had a very similar trajectory to Patton. Massive underperformace on the field, injury woes mixed with bizzare off field behaviour (remember that whole sorry episode of Jake the Push up King acting as his stand over man, sheesh!)

Let's be honest the club has had quite a few turkeys in the trade / free agent period over the last 5 years and they share a lot of similarities.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Well we paid him 500k a year so it's not like it didn't cost the club salary space, etc.

In fact Tyrone had a very similar trajectory to Patton. Massive underperformace on the field, injury woes mixed with bizzare off field behaviour (remember that whole sorry episode of Jake the Push up King acting as his stand over man, sheesh!)

Let's be honest the club has had quite a few turkeys in the trade / free agent period over the last 5 years and they share a lot of similarities.

1 million dollars for 6 games regarding Tyrone lol.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

1 million dollars for 6 games regarding Tyrone lol.

6 very, very, very average games at that

And yet some people still consider that a relative success cause it didn't cost a draft pick!

All I can say to those people is I ha e the deeds to a lovely bridge in Brooklyn I can let you have for an absolute steal!

 

[Yardie]

6 very, very, very average games at that

And yet some people still consider that a relative success cause it didn't cost a draft pick!

All I can say to those people is I ha e the deeds to a lovely bridge in Brooklyn I can let you have for an absolute steal!

So who should the club have gotten to cover for Rough at the time? Who was available?

 

[HODGEYROAD]

So who should the club have gotten to cover for Rough at the time? Who was available?

Be nice if they had of plucked Rowan Marshall out of North Ballarat before St Kilda did.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

So who should the club have gotten to cover for Rough at the time? Who was available?

Pretty much any half decent ruckman in the VFL / SANFL / WAFL would have done the job at half the price.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Pretty much any half decent ruckman in the VFL / SANFL / WAFL would have done the job at half the price.

Or to put it more succinctly, anyone other than Tyrone Vickery!

There is a reason the Tiges couldn't wait to see the back of him.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Be nice if they had of plucked Rowan Marshall out of North Ballarat before St Kilda did.

Now this is the kind of trade/FA aquisition we should be looking at replicating.

Undervalued, diamonds in the rough. Either from other sides or from the lower leagues.

Not broken down ex first rounders with personality issues.

 

[Lickmesocks]

So who should the club have gotten to cover for Rough at the time? Who was available?

A light post would have been a better option.

we have celebrated over the years with the likes of Hale, Gibbo, Goo, Burger, Lake etc so it’s only fair we call it as we see it on the other way.

We have made some major blunders looking for a quick fix. Vickery was a free agent but a serious weird dude with major baggage. Balme was laughing all the way to Gills office to pick up his compensation cheque when he found out what we were paying him.

 

[Rhayader]

we have celebrated over the years with the likes of Hale, Gibbo, Goo, Burger, Lake etc so it’s only fair we call it as we see it on the other way.

That’s just it. None of these guys end up at the Hawks if the club does what some here say and choose not take a punt on them, too old, list cloggers etc

If Patton and Scully were a success, we’d be cheering about it. But because they haven’t been great, then somehow the whole strategy is a fail?

They aren’t always going to come off, but that’s guaranteed if you never take the plunge in the first place. Try taking the good with the bad, rather than lurching from jubilation to pitchforks based solely on hindsight.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

That’s just it. None of these guys end up at the Hawks if the club does what some here say and choose not take a punt on them, too old, list cloggers etc

If Patton and Scully were a success, we’d be cheering about it. But because they haven’t been great, then somehow the whole strategy is a fail?

They aren’t always going to come off, but that’s guaranteed if you never take the plunge in the first place. Try taking the good with the bad, rather than lurching from jubilation to pitchforks based solely on hindsight.

It's also about judging where your list is at and ours was not in a position to take a punt on injury hit overpaid players in their late 20s when it was nowhere near challenging.

When we took these punts about a decade ago the core was a completely different standard and we just needed to fine tune some areas of our list.

 

[OnTheRocks]

Try taking the good with the bad, rather than lurching from jubilation to pitchforks based solely on hindsight.

Hindsight is a non issue regarding Vickery and Patton, for some knew exactly what we were getting, while others are deceived by false hope.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Hindsight is a non issue regarding Vickery and Patton, for some knew exactly what we were getting, while others are deceived by false hope.

People just living in the delirium of the 3 peat and 4 flags in 8 years thinking everything we touch will turn to gold.

 

[dermott]

People just living in the delirium of the 3 peat and 4 flags in 8 years thinking everything we touch will turn to gold.

Whereas others believe that everything we touch turns to s**t.

 

[OnTheRocks]

Whereas others believe that everything we touch turns to sh*t.

No HFC supporter would believe that.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

A light post would have been a better option.

we have celebrated over the years with the likes of Hale, Gibbo, Goo, Burger, Lake etc so it’s only fair we call it as we see it on the other way.

We have made some major blunders looking for a quick fix. Vickery was a free agent but a serious weird dude with major baggage. Balme was laughing all the way to Gills office to pick up his compensation cheque when he found out what we were paying him.

Come on, you’re better than this.

We paid the price we did so as to keep Richmond happy, so that we didn’t have to trade when we were already bringing in Tom and JOM.

The fact is that we were desperate to give McEvoy some sort of back up with some runs on the board due to Rough and Cegs being injured, so all this “anyone would have been better” is completely underhanded and false.

 

[Bugs1977]

Well we paid him 500k a year so it's not like it didn't cost the club salary space, etc.

In fact Tyrone had a very similar trajectory to Patton. Massive underperformace on the field, injury woes mixed with bizzare off field behaviour (remember that whole sorry episode of Jake the Push up King acting as his stand over man, sheesh!)

Let's be honest the club has had quite a few turkeys in the trade / free agent period over the last 5 years and they share a lot of similarities.

You mean if it seems to good to be true then it is

 

[Simon Crawshay]

You mean if it seems to good to be true then it is

Basically yes!

 

[Birdofprey]

Reading through discussion/exchanges on the last few pages reminds me - getting quality talls is really tough. Really tough. Its a problem clubs can get desperate to solve, instead of patient. We forget how lucky we were to get Buddy and Rough in the same year! Two of the best forwards the modern game has seen in the same draft. Honestly, we would have been fortunate to get just one of them.

Like others on here with Tiger mates, my Richmond buddies give me hell about Vickery - they love it. They also went the early crow on Patton, seeing it an error in the style of our Vickery effort. Maybe they were right. Offering up a second chance to players whose original club have decided they do not have the mind/body to sustain consistent AFL performances is highly speculative. Every draft/trade selection has risk of course, but these selections are built on belief you can succeed where another club has tried (repeatedly) and failed.

Then again, working with a young tall forward and/or ruckman is a patience game that doesnt always pay off. We all know names that have been "on the cusp" of being a gun, but never quite getting there. I feel for these young talls giving it a red hot go, but just not getting it together. To some extent, you can hide a running player or utility, but when a young tall has a bad day the poor bastard sticks out for everyone to crucify. How many years do you persist before giving it up, and then starting again with a fresh face?

Anyway, I am hopeful we see plenty of Lewis and Jeka this year, and really give them a chance to develop and shine. But if we cannot win our share of clearances and move the ball quickly, then I am not sure we can expect too much of them either.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Whereas others believe that everything we touch turns to sh*t.

Sadly in the last 4-5 years that has mostly been true, swings and roundabouts I suppose.

 

[Turly]

Sadly in the last 4-5 years that has mostly been true, swings and roundabouts I suppose.

Mitchell, Impey, Scrimshaw, Hendo, Frost and Jaeger (hasn't been the superstar of the comp we wanted but has been an absolute bull for us). All best 22 locks.

Your negativity shines strong as always.

 

[Pessimistic]

Well we paid him 500k a year so it's not like it didn't cost the club salary space, etc.

In fact Tyrone had a very similar trajectory to Patton. Massive underperformace on the field, injury woes mixed with bizzare off field behaviour (remember that whole sorry episode of Jake the Push up King acting as his stand over man, sheesh!)

Let's be honest the club has had quite a few turkeys in the trade / free agent period over the last 5 years and they share a lot of similarities.

‘Quite a few’ is 2 exactly

Hale Lake Bigboy Frawley all came out OK

 

[Simon Crawshay]

‘Quite a few’ is 2 exactly

Hale Lake Bigboy Frawley all came out OK

I count 4 actually
1. Vickery
2. Patton
3. Sculley
4. O'Rourke

Those are 4 pretty big misses by anyone's estimation.

Hale, Lake, Bigboy and Frawley were all recruited before the time period I mentioned (2016 to 2020)

 

[Lickmesocks]

Come on, you’re better than this.

We paid the price we did so as to keep Richmond happy, so that we didn’t have to trade when we were already bringing in Tom and JOM.

The fact is that we were desperate to give McEvoy some sort of back up with some runs on the board due to Rough and Cegs being injured, so all this “anyone would have been better” is completely underhanded and false.

This is complete hogwash.

we paid a fortune for a complete potato who we hoped we could turn around miraculously and nothing changed.

Complete waste of time and money. Shocking pick up.