List Mgmt. Should Ryder get a new contract?

[GremioPower]

Tough decisions need to be made with our list. We made two last year moving on Polec and Wingard. Ryder will be 32 at the start of next season, is starting to move more and more like a pensioner and we have 2 guys ready and waiting in Ladhams and Frampton, and potentially the best of the lot in Hayes coming through as well.

Should he get a new contract?

If the price is right, yes. Currently, his pay would need a considerable cut for the price to be right, which he may not be willing to accept. Why pay him good money, if he is going to give us so little in return?

Our forward line devalues anyone who moves into it, though. It is not only Ryder's fault. Still, Ladhams is way cheaper, and could give us a better return for his cost.

 

[raptalia]

The coach(es) also need to be strong enough to not select him if he's not playing both roles (ruck and forward) to an adequate level.

It's no longer good enough saying that Lycett and Ryder are both rucking well. They need to be doing much more in the forward line and around the ground.

Yeah, Ryder and Lycett took one mark between them in the Showdown and that is not good enough if they are expected to fill a role up forward.

 

[Portology]

Play Ladhans first. Give Ryder a rest. Then judge.

Ken seems unlikely to take this risk until forced into it by, for example, by completely cooking Ryder before resting him once finals are out of reach.

As it is today: 1Y on significantly reduced coin, or not at all.

We haven’t tried Ladhams or Billy, even though both seem promising in exactly the resting forward role that neither Ryder nor Lycett are nailing. IMO we’d be nuts to be rely on Hayes for 2020, will still be getting his body back up to the level.

I don’t think we want either Ladhams or Billy to go yet, but one of them surely will if they’re not even getting a fair trial here after significant SANFL form. This is not a Jackson Trengove situation where the good attributes and limitations at the level are already well known.



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The map is not the terrain.

 

[bomberclifford]

I'd rather we give Shaun Ryder a 1 year deal.

 

[shewho]

I can’t believe how undervalued Paddy is by the majority of posters in this thread.

The same people are crying out for tall forward targets and pushing Frampton and Ladhams in Paddy’s place. There is a gulf between Paddy’s current level and what the others could presently provide. That gap may never be bridged.

We are very lucky to have Paddy. He is one of the few consistent performers in the team. He brings something to our forward line and ruck that other younger players will not bring for years, if ever.

In term of importance to our team Paddy sits between very high on the list.

 

[JimmyBeerCans]

I can’t believe how undervalued Paddy is by the majority of posters in this thread.

The same people are crying out for tall forward targets and pushing Frampton and Ladhams in Paddy’s place. There is a gulf between Paddy’s current level and what the others could presently provide. That gap may never be bridged.

We are very lucky to have Paddy. He is one of the few consistent performers in the team. He brings something to our forward line and ruck that other younger players will not bring for years, if ever.

In term of importance to our team Paddy sits between very high on the list.

Look I don't undervalue him as a ruckman but he's prone to not competing hard enough and going missing as a forward it stretches back to his Essendon days it's just a reality.

 

[PAFC_1870]

Uh the usual after a loss lets delist every older player....

He's not finished.

 

[Zakk Wylde]

Ryder 1 more year on a budget deal.

Westhoff out.

Gray to continue.

 

[ROBBBO]

I can’t believe how undervalued Paddy is by the majority of posters in this thread.

The same people are crying out for tall forward targets and pushing Frampton and Ladhams in Paddy’s place. There is a gulf between Paddy’s current level and what the others could presently provide. That gap may never be bridged.

We are very lucky to have Paddy. He is one of the few consistent performers in the team. He brings something to our forward line and ruck that other younger players will not bring for years, if ever.

In term of importance to our team Paddy sits between very high on the list.

He has been a warrior !!

But if he continually suffers injury then is pretty well useless to us.

On second thoughts I'd give him a year but tell him that year is to train the two young guys coming thru and he is backup only, may not like it tho, he is on big money atm

 

[dav3]

He has been a warrior !!

But if he continually suffers injury then is pretty well useless to us.

On second thoughts I'd give him a year but tell him that year is to train the two young guys coming thru and he is backup only, may not like it tho, he is on big money atm

Bump his salary up a little and get him to do some part-time ruck development coaching on the side.

 

[OneGreatClub]

 

[Duck Farmer]

He should play one more year for free to compensate for the year he had to sit out from ignoring the club’s advice and throwing his lot in with Essendon’s class defence.


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[Doctor Feel]

I'd rather we give Shaun Ryder a 1 year deal.

Jesse Ryder

 

[Spadge]

You might think he is cooked, but when has Ryder ever played well as a forward?

Remember when we tried him as a full time forward early in his Port career and it was an abject failure
We move him to Ruck and he becomes a B&F winner
Im certain Essendon supporters said the same thing of him when we traded him in (dont play him as a forward because he aint one)
When Ryder has been in the Ruck he still is the best tap ruck to advantage we have.

I said earlier in the thread i'd want to see how this season pans out for him and yes i still want to see what Ladhams has, but the more i think about it i cant see us cutting Paddy loose just yet

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Ryder and Lycett ruck combo has worked. Only Grundy has beaten them. They have done their job, giving our mids a better chance of first use of the ball in 7 of the 8 games.

They both have had games where they have played well around the ground taking marks and blocking oppo down the line.

What they haven't done well, is provide a dominate forward option.

Ryder was affected by his broken cheekbone for a few games. Ryder always has only ever had the odd dominate game as a forward as well as pinch hit occasionally with a goal or two when resting throughout his whole career at Essendon and Port.

Lycett played forward with Kennedy and Darling, so he wasn't expected to be better than them and was there just as much to protect them as the oppo needed 3 tall defenders against WCE 3 tall forwards rather than let them play 3 talls against Kennedy and Darling.

So they probably have achieved what was expected of them up forward. The problem has been no Dixon, and Marshall and Westhoff have been too soft in too many games.

A fully fit and firing Dixon and either a firing Marshall or Billy or Howard as the 2nd KPF going hard at contests and taking marks, and the Lycett / Ryder combo as the 3rd tall forward wouldn't look as bad as the last couple of games, when our forward line has generally been dysfunctional.

 

[Saltiga]

Our forward line has been a graveyard for forwards since 2014. The ball either bombed in there or passed to defenders lace out.

The system is broken and has been for 4 years.

Not even Dixon does that well in our forward line.

Its stuffed, the system is stuffed. Almost every week we hear Ken say we got it in there enough times but didn't capitalise on the opportunities. 4 years of doing the same thing and expecting a different result.

Like Ryder, Westy is not a key forward. Hes a pinch hitter.

 

[MrChow]

Yes 100% another year. We are short of key position players, and need as many as possible to help our SANFL structure, so that all players can transfer into the AFL system.

I think Billy F should be replacing Dixon right now, and The Hoff on the wing. Until we have better wingers than the Hoff than he is gone. Having Watts, Ryder and Westhoff though on low contracts selflessly developing our key youth is essential. Or until we have enough decent key position young players.

The question is, how many key position players in each position should we have on our list? Feel like we’ve been too thin for too long. Key players having too play too early in career like Butcher, Lockwood, etc

My thoughts?

5 ruckman (inc 1 rookie or Cat B)
5 key forwards
5 key backs

ATM
Lycett, Ryder, Ladhams, Hayes
Dixon, Marshall, Billy F, Hoff
Howard, Clurey, Lienert, Watts, Grundy

Did I miss? Any is Hoff/Watts really KPPs?

 

[Long live PAFC]

He needs to be managed well.

He is a great ruckman but has lost a lot of run, agility and speed. He is injury prone. He offers little up forward or around the ground. I wonder whether he offers much as a clubman or leader?

If we have a more functional forward line he may offer a tad more but his forward craft has never been very good. That dropped mark against Collingwood, really highlights this.

We may get more out of him if he aims for so 16-20 games. Is rested regularly and we give some young guys a go.

Certainly one year deal and on a pay cut. Also needs to not be a walk up start.

 

[Steve Dore]

No.

Time to bring on our young ruckmen.

 

[El_Scorcho]

No, unless he gets back into form. He's a terrific second ruck but he's a liability as a key forward.

 

[Andre]

No, unless he gets back into form. He's a terrific second ruck but he's a liability as a key forward.

He's playing as #1 KPF, he should be #2 behind Frampton. Another victim of Ken making the whole less than the sum of it's parts.

 

[El_Scorcho]

He's playing as #1 KPF, he should be #2 behind Frampton. Another victim of Ken making the whole less than the sum of it's parts.

This is a great point. He'd probably benefit as much as anyone from Frampton and/or Charlie returning.

He'll keep his place so he'll have plenty of time to earn another year hopefully.

 

[JimmyBeerCans]

He's a better Ruck say 70% there and 30% forward ideally but now we have Lycett it's awkward to manage and while Scott can take a grab and kick a goal himself he's more the lumbering ruck rested forward... I'm not bashing on Lycett he moves well for his size he just doesn't move like a forward.

 

[Waspy79]

Too early to say. Would be interesting to see him ruck solo again for a game to see how he goes.

 

[Schulzenfest]

This board for the past 4 years: Why doesn't bloody Ken Hinkley recruit a mature age ruck so we can have some ruck depth in case we get an injury?

This board when we finally recruit a mature age ruck so we have some ruck depth in case we get an injury: Our second ruck isn't putting in dominating performances when he's not playing as #1 ruck. Let's delist him!