Should the Champions League and Europa League be merged into a Super Champions League?

[Cooldude]

While that sorta socialism is ideal and I'd love to see it happen, football is a capitalistic sport and that just ain't gonna happen. The top clubs wouldn't be happy that they're sharing the revenue with others, they won't allow it. They can always break away and start their own European tournament competition which they sorta threatened a few years ago, then without the top teams, CL wouldn't generate anywhere near the amount of money that it would and it becomes meaningless

The way football works, it's basically a monster that's probably never gonna go back to any sorta fairness, the rich will always monopolize and control the way things are done. Which is why I admire the way AFL's run, it's the best run sport in the world

 

[moomba]

It's not being defensive at all. I just find it amusing that Chelsea and City are used as a reason why clubs do what they've been doing long before City or Chelsea came into money. I've certainly never, ever argued that money is more important than success. And I've never, ever suggested that any competition is not important for my club (FA Youth cup win a few years back is still one of my fondest memories as a blue).

I don't see Liverpool as being relevant to the argument, as I don't think they've disrespected the competition this year (and previous years). I also think that Liverpool will be trying to win the Europa League this season, regardless of the fact that there isn't a free pass to the champions league attached to it. I named the clubs in recent years that have disrespected the Europa League, I'll also add Stoke that sent a second string out at 1-0 down against Valencia. Not only did they lose the second league without having a real go at it, they lost the game on the weekend that they rested their first string for. What a reward for the supporters who paid hundreds (and sometimes thousands) to see their team bottle it.

You don't have to send out first string sides for every game to show respect for the competition, and I know in the past I've argued that on occasion our kids would put in a better performances than some of the established players. But there is a difference between managing your squad to achieve success in the competitions you are in, and throwing in the towel in one or more competitions.

FWIW, if Liverpool do win the Europa League this season I don't think they deserve a spot in the champions league ahead of the side that earns it through the league.

 

[sabre_ac]

Why can't they offer the winner of Europa a place in Champions League?

 

[Dont be a lemon]

those 2 coming into the market has resulted in a rapid quantum leap in spending that my club I don't think was really prepared for.

Edited for accuracy

FA Youth cup win a few years back is still one of my fondest memories as a blue

That's a little weird.

 

[jd2010]

Edited for accuracy



That's a little weird.

moomba has Wenger-esque fetishes?

 

[Kaan]

I don't see Liverpool as being relevant to the argument, as I don't think they've disrespected the competition this year (and previous years).

Have you seen the starting 11 for our 5 Europa games? We played our 2nd string side pretty much every game, I think we didn't even have a single player from our best 11 for a game or two as well.

I'd say that's "disrespecting the competition" considering our starting 11 would be nothing like that if it were UCL games.

 

[jd2010]

Until UEFA give the winner of the EL a play-off spot for the following CL the incentive just isnt there.

I definitely think moomba's idea of playing the games in seperate weeks to the CL is a great idea. It will also help encourage sides to take it more serious as they arent forced to play Thurdsday-Sunday fixtures which seems to be a bug bear many managers have

 

[moomba]

Have you seen the starting 11 for our 5 Europa games? We played our 2nd string side pretty much every game, I think we didn't even have a single player from our best 11 for a game or two as well.

I'd say that's "disrespecting the competition" considering our starting 11 would be nothing like that if it were UCL games.

Yes I have seen your starting XI's and as I've mentioned respecting the competition isn't necessarily about playing your best XI.

 

[TheOz]

The Champions League should be contested between the champions of each nation's top league only.

 

[Cooldude]

The Champions League should be contested between the champions of each nation's top league only.

This i agree with, but yet again having so many other top clubs in the league is what makes it a greater attraction = more money. It's all about cash in the end

 

[Kaan]

UCL consisting of only league champions would be s**t. UCL needs to be left alone.

 

[moomba]

Bit of talk on the Daily Fail about merging Europa and Champs League into a 64 team comp.

On the phone so can't link it.

Can't think of anything worse.

 

[____]

The three changes I'd make to the current European system are:
1) Have the Europa League winners qualify for the Champions League.
2) If a team qualifies for the following CL domestically and wins the comp in the same season, another CL spot should be opened up in that domestic league.
e.g. Man Utd won the domestic league title and CL in 2007/08, therefore a CL spot should've been opened to the 5th placed team in the EPL.
3) If a team wins the CL and doesn't qualify for the following CL domestically, then they and the teams that would've qualified should all be able to take place in the following CL.
e.g. both Tottenham and Chelsea should have been able to compete in this season's CL.

 

[Cooldude]

e.g. both Tottenham and Chelsea should have been able to compete in this season's CL.

Absolutely, as much as I dislike them, spurs should've been in it this season. Just because one of the teams in your league won it while being s**t in the league, doesn't mean another team who earnt the spot throughout the season should be penalised for it

Dunno how it'll work though, one of the crap teams from some crap league would have to miss out

 

[____]

Absolutely, as much as I dislike them, spurs should've been in it this season. Just because one of the teams in your league won it while being s**t in the league, doesn't mean another team who earnt the spot throughout the season should be penalised for it

Dunno how it'll work though, one of the crap teams from some crap league would have to miss out

The system for the upcoming CL season is

Distribution​

​

First qualifying round​

(6 teams)​

• 6 champions from associations 48–53​

Second qualifying round​

(34 teams)​

• 31 champions from associations 16–47 (excluding Liechtenstein)

• 3 winners from the first qualifying round

Third qualifying round​

Champions​

(20 teams)​

• 3 champions from associations 13–15

• 17 winners from the second qualifying round

Non-champions​

(10 teams)​

• 9 runners-up from associations 7–15
• 1 third-placed team from association 6

Play-off round​

Champions​

(10 teams)​

• 10 winners from the third qualifying round for champions

Non-champions​

(10 teams)​

• 2 third-placed teams from associations 4 and 5
• 3 fourth-placed teams from associations 1–3

• 5 winners from the third qualifying round for non-champions

Group stage​

(32 teams)​

• Title holder
• 12 champions from associations 1–12
• 6 runners-up from associations 1–6
• 3 third-placed teams from associations 1–3

• 5 winners from the play-off round for champions
• 5 winners from the play-off round for non-champions

Knockout phase​

(16 teams)​

• 8 group winners from the group stage​
• 8 group runners-up from the group stage​

If the title holder also qualifies for the Champions League through domestic performance, the following changes to the default allocation system above will be made.
If the title holder qualifies for the group stage

• The champions of association 13 (Denmark) are promoted from the third qualifying round to the group stage.
• The champions of association 16 (Cyprus) are promoted from the second qualifying round to the third qualifying round.
• The champions of associations 48 (Northern Ireland) and 49 (Luxembourg) are promoted from the first qualifying round to the second qualifying round.

If the title holder qualifies for the play-off round (non-champions)

• The third-placed team of association 6 (France) and the runners-up of association 7 (Russia) are promoted from the third qualifying round to the play-off round.

Because of the restriction that no association can have more than four teams playing in the Champions League, if the title holder is from the top three associations (England, Spain, Germany) and finishes outside the top four in their domestic league, the fourth-placed team of their association, which would have entered in the Champions League play-off round, will be moved from the Champions League to the Europa League. In this case, the allocation system for the Champions League will be changed in the same way.
If the title holder qualifies for the third qualifying round (non-champions)

• The third-placed team of association 6 (France) are promoted from the third qualifying round to the play-off round. If the title holder is the third placed team of association 6, then the runners-up of association 7 (Russia) are promoted.

If the title holder qualifies for the second qualifying round

• The champions of associations 48 (Northern Ireland) and 49 (Luxembourg) are promoted from the first qualifying round to the second qualifying round.

I'd change it so there's no maximum four teams from one country restriction rule and that if the CL winner already qualifies for the following CL (say if the EPL table stays the same and Man Utd wins the CL) I'd have the fourth placed team automatically make the group stage and the fifth placed team qualify for the play-off round. Not much drastic changes, just means that no promotions for Denmark, Cyprus or Northern Ireland/Luxembourg etc. However I'd also have the Europa winner in the group stage moving the non-champions of the leagues one rung down.

 

[BlueBen]

The Europa League will gradually die unless winning that competition is incentivised by way of the awarding to the winner of a spot in the play-off stages of the Champions League (if not the competition proper).

As much as anything else, it seems logical that, where possible, the achievement of a particular event or feat such as winning a trophy/competition should attract some kind of progression or qualification as a reward. For instance, the winners of the domestic cup competitions get to qualify for the Europa League, i.e., there is an element of progression involved, namely progression into the Europa League. The winners of the domestic leagues qualify for the Champions League and so on.

As it stands, winning the Europa League entitles you to progression...into the next season's Europa League. It's hardly a substantial reward and contradicts the notion that success should present one with an opportunity to compete for higher honours.

I'm not sure what you would do with lower-ranked teams that qualify for the Champions League through their own domestic league. Perhaps a two-legged play-off between the winner of the previous season's Europa League and the lowest-ranked Champions League qualifer could determine a spot in the Champions League proper?

 

[moomba]

The Europa League will gradually die unless winning that competition is incentivised by way of the awarding to the winner of a spot in the play-off stages of the Champions League (if not the competition proper).

I'm not sure thats the case. It may not be overly popular in England, but I don't think the comp has ever been in better shape.

And the incentive is the big shiny thing you can put in your trophy room.

 

[Gak Attack]

Europa should be a knockout from the start. * off all the the group games where teams send their reserves to play in Russia and crap like that, especially with league games on the Sunday after. I like the winner of Europa getting a CL spot too, because they are actually champions of something. Why shouldn't they get it because it's a cup competition? Isn't that what the UCL is as well?

 

[Frankster177]

make the uefa cup for developing football countries in europe.
eastern Europe, the balkans.

Since teams from the better leagues dont care about it.

 

[moomba]

make the uefa cup for developing football countries in europe.
eastern Europe, the balkans.

Since teams from the better leagues dont care about it.

3 Spanish teams in the semi finals last season.

 

[jd2010]

3 Spanish teams in the semi finals last season.

The Spanish league outside of Barca and the two sides in Madrid is sub-standard financially

Never going to happen but for the threads sake how about this: combine the two into sub divsions

Div 1 Champions Division = 16 league winners split into 4 groups
Div 2 European Cup Division = 64 teams from across Europe via the coefficients etc split into 8 groups

Div 1 plays each side in their group twice (6 games)
Div 2 plays each side in their group once (7 games)

Top 2 from the 4 Div 1 groups qualify
Top 2 from the 8 Div 2 groups qualify
Best 4 3rd place sides from Div 1 and Div 2 qualify

Knockout round of 32
1st seed = Div 1 group winners (4 teams)
2nd seed = Div 1 runners-up & Div 2 group winners (12 teams)
3rd seed = Div 1 3rd place & Div 2 runners-up (12 teams)
4th seed = Div 2 3rd place

1A vs 4A
1B VS 4B
1C VS 4C
1D VS 4D
2A VS 3A
2B VS 3B
...and so on and so forth

Would give massive incentive for sides in the Europa Cup Division as they could end up being champions of Europe. Mind you with only 16 sides in the Champions Divsion it would be a very high standard sub-comp. There'd also be extensive qualifying (knockout) for the Europa Cup Division from say Aug-Oct before the main competition starts

 

[moomba]

Can't think of anything worse.

 

[jd2010]

Can't think of anything worse.

So you'd rather watch your team finish 4th in the league and have your spot taken by the 6th best side in the league and go play against powerhouses like Maribor?

 

[jd2010]

If you think the current system isnt broken you have some serious delusions

 

[jd2010]

The EL has to have some sort of relevance. I still think it lost its charm when it went to a group stage then KO style comp. Thats when it became the UCL's poor cousin. Make it 2 leg knock out for 128 sides across Europe and give it its old UEFA Cup name back