List Mgmt. Should the club make a tough call?

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Bigeasy

I'm here for the buffet
Apr 9, 2008
26,968
27,562
The Ponderosa
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Hammers & Steelers
Most will agree that that our mid age group of players are not top 4 quality. Some of our seniors are stars like Higgins, Taz, Goldy and Cunners but following them apart from Polec, Brown and maybe LMac and possibly Dumont there is a dearth of quality players in the 24 to 28 yo age group.

Our under 23 group show great promise with 5 already nominated for the rising star over the last 2 seasons with quality players in Hayden, Walker and LDU yet to be nominated and each have a good excuse for not being able to show their best during that time but their time will come.

We have unknowns in Xerri, Mahoney, Bonar and Comben but each have shown glimpses but they all still have a long way to go to be quality AFL players.

I see this group potentially deliver flag number 5 but we still need more quality kids.

The Tough Call:

Trade Brown or Cunnington for 2 first rounders, one a future.

Both have excellent currency and still have a few good years left in them so 2 first rounders wouldn't be out of the question for either of them.

If the club did this we would have 5 first rounders over 2020/21 with potentially all in the top 10. This would mean we would be crap for a couple of years but it does give us access to high end talent.

What you say?
 

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Rad Roo

Club Legend
Aug 2, 2017
2,146
939
AFL Club
North Melbourne
I wouldn't trade them out. We have enough good kids coming through. In this bizarre 2020 season get games into them. Just gotta make sure we nail the early draft picks.

And clean out the guys not taking us anywhere.
Well, this might include Turner, Garner, Jacobs, McMillan, Ziebell, Tyson if more is needed, you can add the likes of Atley, Hall if they cannot step up for the next 5 weeks. By popular demand, we keep Cunnington on for a little while longer. All the names mentioned here are relics of Brad Scott era where we stuck to a bunch of mediocre players with no upside.
 

Fish Sticks

Senior List
Mar 2, 2015
267
752
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Has this method of list management ever worked?
Maybe the Hawks pulled it off trading Croad to Freo, but he was never A grade quality & Freo were just dumb doing that.
We already have 2 first round picks this year & what seems to be some really good young talent. We need these senior types to guide & teach them what it takes to become good footballers.
Melbourne & Carlton are proof that a bunch of high draft picks with no really good senior on the list does not work.
I’m a firm no!
We should be looking to poach a few gun players in this age bracket. The comp is pretty even, as this year so far suggests.
We are only a couple A graders from competing for a flag next year IMO
 

Kciza

Team Captain
Jun 2, 2015
583
1,055
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Can't see a club who finish near the bottom in the next two years giving up two first round picks for 30 year old Ben Cunnington or Brown who has shown he struggles in a bad side. The only clubs that would trade for them are ones who will be or will be close to playing finals. Don't see the point in giving up a great servant of the club for picks 14 and 17. That sorta stuff can be bad for your culture
 

bengrina

Club Legend
Aug 29, 2012
1,199
2,154
West Baltimore
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Can't see a club who finish near the bottom in the next two years giving up two first round picks for 30 year old Ben Cunnington or Brown who has shown he struggles in a bad side. The only clubs that would trade for them are ones who will be or will be close to playing finals. Don't see the point in giving up a great servant of the club for picks 14 and 17. That sorta stuff can be bad for your culture
Completely agree . Why would we give up an A grader (Cunnington/Brown)for a draft pick that may or may not be any good . If you look at the top 10 draft picks over the last 20 years , only 1 or 2 in the top 10 end up being A graders . As mentioned it could also be detrimental to the club culture selling off players that have given everything for the club . We did a big clean out a few years back (dal, drew, boomer ect) and have brought in some great young talent . Do the same at the end of this year and head to the draft with 2 first rounders
 

zoomba23

Club Legend
Jun 17, 2017
1,060
2,695
AFL Club
North Melbourne
No and no. Brown is a gun key forward, he's shown it in the fact that he's the only bloke to kick 60 goals in the last three seasons. He is out of form right now because we have no gameplan to speak of and we're not playing to his strengths, namely giving him space to lead inside 50 and kicking it to his advantage. The man is a hit up forward, not a pack marker. He is impossible to stop when he's on a lead and next to useless in a pack of 6 or 7, which is the situation that we've constantly been kicking to him in our past few games. All we've gotta do is give him some space inside 50, hit him up, and he'll return to the form we've seen from him in the past.

Cunners, by the same token, is carrying our inside midfield. Yes, we have some ok mids coming through in the likes of Simpkin, Hayden, LDU, etc. but the fact is, we still need Cunners. He's a contested beast and is constantly setting up attacks with his hands in the clinches. We have no one who can replace him, and we would really feel it, both short term and long term, if we got rid of him.

We have a fair bit of draft clout at the moment. We're on track for pick 2 (fingers crossed Melbourne keep shitting the bed) and pick 6 next year. It's a shame that we won't get to see TAC prospects this year cos of the interrupted year, but we are very well set up for the future. I don't think there's any need to trade away such important players while we have these promising youngsters coming through (Zurhaar, Hayden, LDU, Taylor, Thomas, Simpkin, Mahony, Scott, Walker, Larkey), and while we are so well positioned for the near future draft-wise.
 

Only Forwards

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 14, 2008
19,119
44,919
Melbourne
AFL Club
North Melbourne
You're asking a question you know the answer the club will make in reality.

If Melbourne and us wind up bottom 6.

If we got offered another top 10 pick and a first round pick for one of these two it would need to be considered.

However there are factors that require real insight none of us would have.

- are either of these players even open to trade?
- it's a big risk big reward type move, does the club have the Cojones to take on that sort of risk?
- we are currently seeing what it's like without Cunners in the team, it's a mess, let's see if we can find pattern in the midfield that works first.
- it's putting a shitload of eggs in the Larkey making it basket.

Do we make a tough call and go for something shiny that could work, could not and we won't know for some time? I very much doubt it.
 

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Psicosis

Premiership Player
May 7, 2012
3,105
3,907
Bird Rock
AFL Club
North Melbourne
There are a lot of tough calls to be made at the end of 2020, albeit not those you’ve suggested, if Brady can’t make the following calls after this year he may as well f*** off for someone that can...

- We have 5 mid sized defenders on our list that do not have AFL quality disposal (Pittard, Williams, Atley, McDonald, Macmillan). He needs to get rid of at least 2, with McDonald playing predominantly as a tagger.
- Our midfield remains one of the least quick/skilful groups in the competition, how is this going to rectified? Continuing to play midfielders that aren’t quick/skilful has run its course.
- Jack Ziebell, our captain is not AFL standard playing midfield, he either improves as a forward or something gives.
 

roos_fanatic08

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 21, 2008
20,514
30,879
Vic
AFL Club
North Melbourne
It only takes one draft and a bit of shrewd trading or free agency to turn things around.

Port Adelaide are the perfect example of this. They nailed the draft a few years back with the likes of Butters, Rozee and Durrsma. Those three bring energy which had revitalised their whole list.

we’ve got the capacity to do that this year through free agency (Zac Williams) and the draft.

I’d go all in on this draft too, risk it to get the biscuit. Trade our 2021 first for another first this year. Really go for it
 

shinboner magic

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 17, 2007
12,135
12,658
melb home of the kangas
AFL Club
North Melbourne
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Should seriously look at it but our club holds on to their players till only the scrapyard will take them.
Let’s see what Brady does - just hope we’re not having the same convo about the same players next July.
 

Asifhe Givashe

Team Captain
Jan 14, 2020
493
785
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Sign me up to this....

Starting picks: 2,6,32

Trade-out:
Brown Pick 8 + 2021 R1
Dumont Pick 20
Ziebell 2021 R3
MacMillan DFA
Atley 2021 R3
Turner. 2021 R3

End picks:
2,6,8,20,32 in 2020

2xR1,1xR2,4xR3,1xR4 in 2021

Trade:
2021 R1 + 32 for Papley.

Draft:
2-Hollands
6- DGB
8- Philips
20-Macrae

With a bit of luck, I’d like us to line up something like this next year:

B: Perez Tarrant (C) EVW
HB:ZWilliams DGB Hayden
C: Polec. LDU Higgins
HF: Papley Larkey Taylor
F: Thomas Daw Cunnington
R:Goldstein Simpkin Hollands
iC: Comben,Philips,Zurhaar,WWalker

Em: Anderson, Macrae, Scott, MWilliams, Mahony, Xerri, JWalker, Ahern
 
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the flying ham

Club Legend
Dec 12, 2006
2,236
4,050
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Most will agree that that our mid age group of players are not top 4 quality. Some of our seniors are stars like Higgins, Taz, Goldy and Cunners but following them apart from Polec, Brown and maybe LMac and possibly Dumont there is a dearth of quality players in the 24 to 28 yo age group.

Our under 23 group show great promise with 5 already nominated for the rising star over the last 2 seasons with quality players in Hayden, Walker and LDU yet to be nominated and each have a good excuse for not being able to show their best during that time but their time will come.

We have unknowns in Xerri, Mahoney, Bonar and Comben but each have shown glimpses but they all still have a long way to go to be quality AFL players.

I see this group potentially deliver flag number 5 but we still need more quality kids.

The Tough Call:

Trade Brown or Cunnington for 2 first rounders, one a future.

Both have excellent currency and still have a few good years left in them so 2 first rounders wouldn't be out of the question for either of them.

If the club did this we would have 5 first rounders over 2020/21 with potentially all in the top 10. This would mean we would be crap for a couple of years but it does give us access to high end talent.

What you say?
Clubs that traded out their better players to secure picks never really made that jump up the ladder. My personal take is that development can be hit or miss, so you develop a strategy to supplement the existing talent on the list.

In short, we won't get better if we trade out Cunnington or Brown. We will go backwards at a rapid clip in the short term, then may never recover as there is no such thing as a sure thing out of the draft. Particularly coming off this season where analysis on talent is at all time lows with lack of organised competition.

I do believe we have started the transition already. 5 rising stars on the list, rapidly developing star Jy in the middle, and another batch of kids who look like they will develop further. I think the list has a hole between 22 and 26 for top end talent - this is where a free agent like Z Williams would be ideal. Instantly improves the side from both a talent and list need perspective. Now if we see LDU, WW, Bonar develop into solid senior citizens then we have a very deep list of talent under 23 years old. In short, don't trade brown and Cunners, get them help. My 2 cents

Edit - we have 2 potentially high picks in this year's draft. We are in a handy position already
 

Bigeasy

I'm here for the buffet
Apr 9, 2008
26,968
27,562
The Ponderosa
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Hammers & Steelers
Clubs that traded out their better players to secure picks never really made that jump up the ladder. My personal take is that development can be hit or miss, so you develop a strategy to supplement the existing talent on the list.

In short, we won't get better if we trade out Cunnington or Brown. We will go backwards at a rapid clip in the short term, then may never recover as there is no such thing as a sure thing out of the draft. Particularly coming off this season where analysis on talent is at all time lows with lack of organised competition.

I do believe we have started the transition already. 5 rising stars on the list, rapidly developing star Jy in the middle, and another batch of kids who look like they will develop further. I think the list has a hole between 22 and 26 for top end talent - this is where a free agent like Z Williams would be ideal. Instantly improves the side from both a talent and list need perspective. Now if we see LDU, WW, Bonar develop into solid senior citizens then we have a very deep list of talent under 23 years old. In short, don't trade brown and Cunners, get them help. My 2 cents

Edit - we have 2 potentially high picks in this year's draft. We are in a handy position already
Cunnington is approaching 30, if he was mid 20s
we wouldn't be having this convo.
 
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the flying ham

Club Legend
Dec 12, 2006
2,236
4,050
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Cunnington is approach in 30, if he was mid 20s
we wouldn't be having this convo.
I get that, however you have seen how we have performed without him in there. Losses like that will be par for course next year as these kids still mature. If we want to put our best foot forward next year to win the spoon, trade him. But we run the risk of winning it the year after that and the year after that. Development isn't an exact science in footy, and draft riches don't always equate to on field success. That said, 2 potential top 10s is already a great start
 

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