List Mgmt. Should the club make a tough call?

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the Ziebull

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Nov 14, 2010
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Not against trading either of brown or cunners if the return was worth it

cunners back is potentially a career longevity issue
 

Mcarcherey

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Oct 10, 2014
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Most will agree that that our mid age group of players are not top 4 quality. Some of our seniors are stars like Higgins, Taz, Goldy and Cunners but following them apart from Polec, Brown and maybe LMac and possibly Dumont there is a dearth of quality players in the 24 to 28 yo age group.

Our under 23 group show great promise with 5 already nominated for the rising star over the last 2 seasons with quality players in Hayden, Walker and LDU yet to be nominated and each have a good excuse for not being able to show their best during that time but their time will come.

We have unknowns in Xerri, Mahoney, Bonar and Comben but each have shown glimpses but they all still have a long way to go to be quality AFL players.

I see this group potentially deliver flag number 5 but we still need more quality kids.

The Tough Call:

Trade Brown or Cunnington for 2 first rounders, one a future.

Both have excellent currency and still have a few good years left in them so 2 first rounders wouldn't be out of the question for either of them.

If the club did this we would have 5 first rounders over 2020/21 with potentially all in the top 10. This would mean we would be crap for a couple of years but it does give us access to high end talent.

What you say?
Leave this kind of stuff for the bored journos that hype up the draft.

The bottom line is trading out your best players for a few first rounders has never worked. Just like trans bottoming out. In theory it works, but holistically, teams have never won premierships doing this.

Totally disagree, especially with a compromised draft this year.


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Bigeasy

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Leave this kind of stuff for the bored journos that hype up the draft.

The bottom line is trading out your best players for a few first rounders has never worked. Just like trans bottoming out. In theory it works, but holistically, teams have never won premierships doing this.

Totally disagree, especially with a compromised draft this year.


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Player not players
 

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benbanjo

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 16, 2009
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Sign me up to this....

Starting picks: 2,6,32

Trade-out:
Brown Pick 8 + 2021 R1
Dumont Pick 20
Ziebell 2021 R3
MacMillan DFA
Atley 2021 R3
Turner. 2021 R3

End picks:
2,6,8,20,32 in 2020

2xR1,1xR2,4xR3,1xR4 in 2021

Trade:
2021 R1 + 32 for Papley.

Draft:
2-Hollands
6- DGB
8- Philips
20-Macrae

With a bit of luck, I’d like us to line up something like this next year:

B: Perez Tarrant (C) EVW
HB:ZWilliams DGB Hayden
C: Polec. LDU Higgins
HF: Papley Larkey Taylor
F: Thomas Daw Cunnington
R:Goldstein Simpkin Hollands
iC: Comben,Philips,Zurhaar,WWalker

Em: Anderson, Macrae, Scott, MWilliams, Mahony, Xerri, JWalker, Ahern
Dude, if Papley was playing for us and someone offered a first rounder and pick 32, we would tell them to at least provide a reach around as a sweetener. The bloke is worth 2 first rounders and good ones at that, he is the best small mid forward in the comp.



There should be a conversation with just about every player at seasons end asking them if they want to stay or go. Forcing champions out of the club isn't a good look. If anyone is open to leaving then look at options.
Our issue is not bottoming out year after year and not having father sons galore, we've actually been rather unlucky with father suns.

We have first rounders on the list that can get a kick, maybe Brady can work out whats wrong with our development.
 

Ether

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Oct 21, 2019
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Leave this kind of stuff for the bored journos that hype up the draft.

The bottom line is trading out your best players for a few first rounders has never worked. Just like trans bottoming out. In theory it works, but holistically, teams have never won premierships doing this.

Totally disagree, especially with a compromised draft this year.


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1. We wouldn't get value for either of them.
2. Extremely compromised draft due to NGAs and FSs.
3. No U/18 comp so much more of a lottery than usual.
4. You'd have to be f%in nuts to contemplate tearing the guts out of the team given 1 - 3.
 

amaz199

Club Legend
Apr 5, 2015
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Cunnington? No.

Brown? No.

Other players that haven't been mentioned? Yes.

I wouldn't trade either of them as they were drafted with future prospects in mind. Cunnington becoming the contested beast he was destined to be, and Brown becoming the next key forward after Petrie.

Without Cunnington, we don't have enough opposition accountability defensively. They will just go to Higgins and we are pretty much screwed. (See GWS game where we made Leon Cameron switch tagging focus from Cunners to Higgo)

Without Brown, Larkey may need to develop on his own without guidance from an experienced key forward. Especially since Brown has so much experience to pass over. Every side needs to have an experienced key forward.

I think the focus needs to be magnified on the players that haven't elevated their game well enough from 2010-12 era. Mainly Atley and Macmillan. Both of these players could be put on the chopping block, and we have to see what we can get for them. Pains me to say it but they haven't been good enough.

We also need to find who can replace Goldy when he hangs up the boots. Without him, I don't want to imagine the horror. Edit: (Plus Tarrant)
 
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Teen Wolf

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The problem identified in the OP is a lack of quality in the 24 to 28 age group. Trading out a 27yo Brown or a 29yo Cunnington for draft picks doesn't begin to address that.

Heading into 2017, you could've said the exact same thing about Richmond's 24-28yo core. One or two A-graders surrounded by hacks and pea-hearts. Yet in the following three years, a flood of those players (Caddy, Grimes, Houli, Edwards, Lambert etc...) pulled their finger out and (or because?) they were given clearer roles within the team for which they were best suited. The Tigers wouldn't have won two premierships without turning around a whole bunch of flat-lining careers.

My take: we won't be contending for a flag in the next five years unless the likes of Anderson, Atley, Dumont, Garner, Williams and Wood collectively lift to the realm of elite or thereabouts. Essentially we have the opportunity to emulate and multiply the Shaun Higgins success story on a grand scale, although it will of course take a lot of hard and smart work. That's the opposite to how everybody on this board sees it, but I understand the appeal in thinking we can simply delist or draft our way out of mediocrity.
 

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The acurate one

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Jan 23, 2019
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The problem identified in the OP is a lack of quality in the 24 to 28 age group. Trading out a 27yo Brown or a 29yo Cunnington for draft picks doesn't begin to address that.

Heading into 2017, you could've said the exact same thing about Richmond's 24-28yo core. One or two A-graders surrounded by hacks and pea-hearts. Yet in the following three years, a flood of those players (Caddy, Grimes, Houli, Edwards, Lambert etc...) pulled their finger out and (or because?) they were given clearer roles within the team for which they were best suited. The Tigers wouldn't have won two premierships without turning around a whole bunch of flat-lining careers.

My take: we won't be contending for a flag in the next five years unless the likes of Anderson, Atley, Dumont, Garner, Williams and Wood collectively lift to the realm of elite or thereabouts. Essentially we have the opportunity to emulate and multiply the Shaun Higgins success story on a grand scale, although it will of course take a lot of hard and smart work. That's the opposite to how everybody on this board sees it, but I understand the appeal in thinking we can simply delist or draft our way out of mediocrity.
Well as Jesus said to those others dudes nailed to the cross....” we’re f’ed then”.

The guys you’re hoping lift to an elite level will most likely not be at North for much longer .

Dumont can play a bit , but is too slow. Especially for a wing and forget him in the guts.

I personally think we should entertain offers for the majority of our list . I also of the opinion that would should go hard for Williams from GWS. And then offer our first rounders for skilled 23-25 yr olds .
We run the risk of being too young.
 

DuckYeah

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The tough call would be, what do you do with two first rounders this year? Do you go for a couple of 24-26 year olds to fill the gap or do you go get a couple of kids tgat could take a few years?
 

Passmore

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Well as Jesus said to those others dudes nailed to the cross....” we’re f’ed then”.

The guys you’re hoping lift to an elite level will most likely not be at North for much longer .

Dumont can play a bit , but is too slow. Especially for a wing and forget him in the guts.

I personally think we should entertain offers for the majority of our list . I also of the opinion that would should go hard for Williams from GWS. And then offer our first rounders for skilled 23-25 yr olds .
We run the risk of being too young.
Mate, you need to get your mind off 23-25 yos with "special skills "...we back in lockdown.

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Passmore

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The tough call would be, what do you do with two first rounders this year? Do you go for a couple of 24-26 year olds to fill the gap or do you go get a couple of kids tgat could take a few years?
My opinion we need to go with kids. We need to build the core under Jy. I'd entertain a trade if the player was in the 22-23 age bracket. No older.

We can look at the 26+ bracket in FA.

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Shagga is all Class

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The tough call should be to use our probable 2 top 6 picks this year and play them, along with LDU, TT, Taylor.

The only real way to do this is to dump Ziebell, Atley, JMAC, Wood, Garner and the like.

The experienced B, C, D graders offer very little on the field.

Our A graders have no real trade currency.
 

Virgin Dog

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Can't see a club who finish near the bottom in the next two years giving up two first round picks for 30 year old Ben Cunnington or Brown who has shown he struggles in a bad side. The only clubs that would trade for them are ones who will be or will be close to playing finals. Don't see the point in giving up a great servant of the club for picks 14 and 17. That sorta stuff can be bad for your culture
Not that I think trading Brown is even close to a good idea, but Geelong hold Pick 11, their own first pick (currently 17) and Eagles' first pick (currently 4 but that will end up in the teens). The Cats would scramble to sign Brown if given the chance.

There's also Collingwood with Pick 9, and the Lions who hold their own first rounder plus Port's, which could be packaged to move up the order. All these teams are competing for finals, have mature enough lists and desperately want a quality KPF. There would be a buyer with decent picks if he was up for offer
 

krakouers85

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1. We wouldn't get value for either of them.
2. Extremely compromised draft due to NGAs and FSs.
3. No U/18 comp so much more of a lottery than usual.
4. You'd have to be f%in nuts to contemplate tearing the guts out of the team given 1 - 3.
5. The issues with brown become Larkey issues next year as they double/triple team him without help

This:
Without Cunnington, we don't have enough opposition accountability defensively. They will just go to Higgins and we are pretty much screwed. (See GWS game where we made Leon Cameron switch tagging focus from Cunners to Higgo)

Without Brown, Larkey may need to develop on his own without guidance from an experienced key forward. Especially since Brown has so much experience to pass over. Every side needs to have an experienced key forward.

I had to ask..

What about JMac for Paddy Cripps?.. Phillyroo would want Carlton to throw in Curnow as a sweetner..
I'll trade Cunnington if they take Phillyroo off our hands.
You know I don't want Carltank to Strengthen, just JMac for now

Edit: Have they started tagging Simpkin yet? Not sure he would be able to handle the hard tag
 

Shagga is all Class

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What sort of victimhood mentality is this?

If we were seriously entertaining the idea of moving Cunners or Brown on all 17 other clubs would be interested.
Simplistic view at best.

Granted you could argue using Joe Daniher as a baseline (who wanted to go last year) that Cunnington and Brown have trade value.

There is no indication that either wants to go and historically we don't get great commitment for quality players incoming bar Polec.

So you trade A graders for some of the picks mentioned in this thread and possibly have incoming deals fall through, watch Goldy and Higgins retire and pay who exactly for the minimum cap?

I guess Atley might be happy as a 300 gamer.
 

Go_Roos!

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5. The issues with brown become Larkey issues next year as they double/triple team him without help

This:







You know I don't want Carltank to Strengthen, just JMac for now

Edit: Have they started tagging Simpkin yet? Not sure he would be able to handle the hard tag
No hard tag for Simpkin yet, that's why he is able to run around and get a few touches. A whole new world for players when they get a good stopper put on them.
 

krakouers85

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No hard tag for Simpkin yet, that's why he is able to run around and get a few touches. A whole new world for players when they get a good stopper put on them.
That's the bit that worries me, they might not tag Higgins and instead tag him. He will need some time to get used to it.

The way Higgins is playing that will hurt us (at the moment, know he can turn it around)
 

Only Forwards

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Simplistic view at best.

Granted you could argue using Joe Daniher as a baseline (who wanted to go last year) that Cunnington and Brown have trade value.

There is no indication that either wants to go and historically we don't get great commitment for quality players incoming bar Polec.

So you trade A graders for some of the picks mentioned in this thread and possibly have incoming deals fall through, watch Goldy and Higgins retire and pay who exactly for the minimum cap?

I guess Atley might be happy as a 300 gamer.
I haven't advocated for the trading of either Brown nor Cunners. My earlier post in this thread said I don't the the club would do it either.

However the idea that our Agraders wouldn't attract attention or commensurate value is false. That's all.
 

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