List Mgmt. Should the club make a tough call?

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ferball

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Jul 24, 2015
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So we double down on that fiasco?
Not at all.

It was a terrible decision and probably sent a similar message to the one you mentioned earlier ...

Pour yourself into what you do for us, but at the end of the day we will f*** you off if the terms are right for us, regardless of what you've done for us.
 

Go_Roos!

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Agree. I don't really get the list management concept of trading your A graders gives you trade currency. It gives you more draft picks and another best 22 hole in your list.

If we had an A grader who wants to come, we already have draft picks stockpiled and why would they come if we are trading out our top end or culturally stuffing the club Crazy Vossy style?

It also just means Simpkin would be tagged and Larkey double teamed instead of Cunnington, Higgins or Brown.
Which would mean Simpkin and Larkey wouldn't get a kick, then we could carry on and demand that they be sacked! And on it goes!
 

krakouers85

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What would be fair value for brown and cunners?

their age means they aren’t worth 2 first rounders. So 1 first and 1 second rounder each?
Hypothetically, Brown is worth 2x Firsts, Cunnington a Top 5 or 2x late first rounders

Brown is OOC so it drives it down to a first but would start by asking for 2
Cunnington isn’t so pay up
 

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Tas

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Midfield Problems Part 2: Warning, long rant.

Polec 64 kicks @ 51.6% 26.4m avg 22 I50s 3 GA (7.3 per goal) 5 score launches 25 score involvements 35 CP 16 CL 1 Goal
Anderson 49 kicks @ 51.0% 21.9m avg 17 I50s 4 GA (4.3 per goal) 3 SL 25 SI 45 CP 18 CL 1 Goal
Higgins 44 kicks @ 63.6% 31.1m avg 15 I50s 1 GA (15 per goal) 3 SL 17 SI 33 CP 17 CL 0 Goals
Simpkin 56 kicks @55.4% 26.5m avg 14 I50s 1 GA (14 per goal) 7 SL 31 SI 56 CP 31 CL 3 Goals
Hall 36 kicks @ 55.6% 31.2m avg 13 I50s 0 GA (NA) 0 SL 16 SI 24 CP 8 CL 3 Goals
Dumont 52 kicks @ 61.5% 31.1m avg 13 I50s 2 GA (6.5 per goal) 2 SL 18 SI 31 CP 8 CL 1 Goal

Cunnington 18 kicks @ 44.4% 12.1m avg 3 I50s 2 GA (1.5 per goal) 4 SL 15 SI 33 CP 12 CL 2 goals


Offensively, Ben has been more dangerous in 2.5 games with a broken back than our "offensive" midfielders. Anderson and Simpkin are doing more offensive work than Polec, Higgins and Hall combined but are doing a lot of the heavy lifting with the Cunners being shot. Gibson in his worst season for us went at 8 inside 50s per goal and for the majority of it was in the vicinity of around 4 per goal and he was unfairly maligned as a hacker of the ball forward. Polec is going at 7.3, Higgins at 15, Simpkin 14, Hall hasn't even had an assist in 5 games.

At least Simpkin is doing the heavy lifting, is getting a lot of contested ball, he has had 7 score launches, 5 from Polec, 3 from Anderson, 3 from Higgins, 0 from Hall, 2 from Dumont, Ben on one leg in 2.5 games has 4. Our outside is Shizenhousen and the problem is n one of them are even kids that have an excuse for being sh*t. Higgins is an All Australian, Polec is on megabucks to play and Dumont is 25 and has racked up 87 games and he is meant to be one of the better kicks in our team.

Outs Going forward at some point:
Polec (I assume he will go home when his big contract is over)
Higgins (move to half-forward until he retires)
Hall (retire)
Dumont (trade?)

The ones we retain are:
Cunnington (until he retires)
Anderson
Simpkin

In:
LDU (hopefully this year)
Scott (Hall shouldn't be playing ahead of him)
Thomas (needs more education on how to position to receive and get into space)

I would test the waters more with Ahern, Bonar and Walker and Perez when he is available, not sure if any are going to make it but players like Dumont, Higgins and Polec are not defensively accountable, don't get much of the hard ball, don't tackle a lot and aren't adding a whole lot offensively.

Higgins will have to play in the middle until LDU comes back and Cunnington is over his current issues, but I would like to see him move to half-forward with a license to roam like Boomer used to and it should help to open up our forward line a bit.

Two of the best midfields in modern times was Brisbane's Voss/Black/Lappin/Akermanis midfield and West Coast's Cousins/Judd/Kerr/Embley

You need 4 guns plus good support mids around them. We potentially have 3 very good mids in LDU, Thomas and Simpkin but they aren't playing together and they aren't learning to play to their strengths. We have two 1st round picks, imo both should go to top class midfield talent and we need to transition our mature fringe players who have racked up a lot of games and been average but inconsistent. We can't wait until players like LDU are 25+ playing this stodgy brand of football. We need grunt in the side, like Cunnington, but we have the opportunity to build a top class team, we can't be afraid of losing some games to make that happen.

The only 30+ plus players going around should be top of the line talent like Goldstein, Tarrant, Cunnington, Higgins, Brown, etc. We should be looking to move on players like Macmillan, Atley, etc over the next few years. We don't need 150+ games fringe players. Zurhaar and Taylor already have surpassed what Ziebell has provided up forward. I wish all these older players we retained who are top blokes were better players but we can't control how effective they are, it is in their hands.

Garner's body is just too unreliable. Wood does his best work in the pre-season, he is an athlete, great endurance but he just doesn't have the hunger to be a footballer. If you put Zurhaar's attitude in Wood's body you would have a freak.

Forward structure should be Brown, Larkey and perhaps Xeri/Bonar. Throw in Taylor, Walker and eventually Higgins being pushed to half-forward until he retires, he will give some class around the forward 50 and you have players like Thomas and Scott spending time forward.

Our backline would be a lot better if our midfield stopped turning over the ball with long kicks to nobody but when we have the ball in our defensive 50 there is no system of moving the ball forward, there is no quick movement, there is no risk taking, we make it easy for the opposition to congest space and it is the slow speed of ball movement with a lot of sideways and backwards kicks that gets us into trouble combined with an almost inability to take a contested mark between the arcs. Your game plan can't be to bomb it to packs when nobody can take a contested mark and talls struggle to even get to the contest.

Tarrant is a great player and Josh Walker has been a solid pickup, it is the medium/small that is the problem with McDonald, Macmillan, Atley, Pittard, Williams, etc being inconsistent when it comes to moving the ball out of defensive 50 while retaining the ball. Atley is the slowest fast player I have ever seen, when the opportunity to gun it is there he doesn't take it and he has fewer rundown chases than chubby Zurhaar.

I am not sure if the answer is pushing players like Ahern down back, Perez wasn't renown for being silky by foot but I think as we push for more elite midfield talent those that do not make it as elite midfielders tend to transition into defensive flankers, our problem has been we have historically recruited a lot of players who were only good as defensive flankers so we have congested the pathway for failed midfielders, we always thought we can turn flankers into top end mids but it is extremely rare, Simpkin is probably the first higher quality flanker that has paid off.

I just think we need to have more opportunity for people to flourish, there are a lot of players going around atm that I do not see being part of a premiership team.
 
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The Butcher

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Great effort TAS, deserves a well thought response.

This isn't that, I hope you get some, but in the meantime my thoughts after getting maybe halfway. Indian or arrow? It's so hard to fairly judge a player in a team sport based on their individual stats. Maybe they hit every target in drills but in the situations they confront in games they drop to 50%, how much is that on them vs other factors out of their control. I reckon for years our teams haven't consistently made more time and space for their kicks or taken those away from opposition disposals. I also reckon our teams haven't consistently created "easy" kicking options or taken those away from the opposition. If thats true surely it hurts kicking stats and if its team wide that suggests to me something other than individual skill is a large factor. Sack Scotts In Scamper We Trust.

That said, if the team's playing style is kick long to a contest you wouldn't prioritise creating time and space for disposal or move your players around like chess pieces to make holes for hit up targets... so I dunno. Where was I?
 

muttley45

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Midfield Problems Part 2: Warning, long rant.

Polec 64 kicks @ 51.6% 26.4m avg 22 I50s 3 GA (7.3 per goal) 5 score launches 25 score involvements 35 CP 16 CL 1 Goal
Anderson 49 kicks @ 51.0% 21.9m avg 17 I50s 4 GA (4.3 per goal) 3 SL 25 SI 45 CP 18 CL 1 Goal
Higgins 44 kicks @ 63.6% 31.1m avg 15 I50s 1 GA (15 per goal) 3 SL 17 SI 33 CP 17 CL 0 Goals
Simpkin 56 kicks @55.4% 26.5m avg 14 I50s 1 GA (14 per goal) 7 SL 31 SI 56 CP 31 CL 3 Goals
Hall 36 kicks @ 55.6% 31.2m avg 13 I50s 0 GA (NA) 0 SL 16 SI 24 CP 8 CL 3 Goals
Dumont 52 kicks @ 61.5% 31.1m avg 13 I50s 2 GA (6.5 per goal) 2 SL 18 SI 31 CP 8 CL 1 Goal

Cunnington 18 kicks @ 44.4% 12.1m avg 3 I50s 2 GA (1.5 per goal) 4 SL 15 SI 33 CP 12 CL 2 goals
Nice post Tas, no surprise our kicking efficiency is shithouse, but i am flabberbasted that Higgins. who i would have picked as one our better users, leads that group of mids @ 63.6%, and Cunners can't even crack 50%, (although he does get a lot of his posessions in the hottest part of the kitchen). Therein lies the cause of a lot of our problems, alas, Jy is probably young enough to improve his numbers siginificantly, the rest however....... :'(
 

King Corey

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The real problem on list management this year will be some of the longer contracts we saddled ourselves with.

18Atley, Shaun13-Sep-92189cm86kgMurray BushrangersDefender2021
16Bonar, Aiden6-Jan-00188cm86kgDandenong StingraysMidfield2021 (TBC)
42Campbell, Tom2-Nov-91200cm106kgBendigo BombersRuck2021
9Davies-Uniacke, Luke8-Jun-99188cm85kgDandenong StingraysMidfield2021
14Dumont, Trent30-Jun-95186cm87kgNorwoodMidfield2021
43Hall, Aaron9-Nov-90185cm85kgHobartMidfield2021
4Higgins, Shaun4-Mar-88184cm89kgGeelong FalconsMidfield2021
20Larkey, Nick6-Jun-98198cm93kgOakleigh ChargersForward2021
11McDonald, Luke9-Feb-95189cm89kgWerribeeDefender2021
23McKay, Ben24-Dec-97201cm95kgGippsland PowerDefender2021
17Pittard, Jasper1-Apr-91186cm84kgGeelong FalconsDefender2021
25Tarrant, Robbie25-Apr-89196cm97kgBendigo PioneersDefender2021
21Tyson, Dom8-Jun-93186cm85kgOakleigh ChargersMidfield2021
7Ziebell, Jack28-Feb-91188cm88kgMurray BushrangersMidfield2021

These are the guys contracted until the end of 2021.

Under normal conditions you'd think Hall, Tyson and McKay would be up for review this year. Personally I'd be looking at Atley too but there's no evidence the coaching staff feel the same way.

Some would argue Campbell's deal is odd but I think it's a good 'break glass' deal for the club and Tom, he stays in the system and contributes to our culture while we have that senior hardened ruckman to call on if Goldie hits a snag.

Looking at this year's mob, there's a few in trouble as discussed-
15Ahern, Paul1-Aug-96183cm85kgCalder CannonsMidfield2020
3Anderson, Jed2-Feb-94179cm81kgTerritory ThunderMidfield2020
50Brown, Ben20-Nov-92200cm101kgWerribee TigersForward2020
36Crocker, Joel14-Apr-00191cm78kgSandringham DragonsDefender2020
1Daw, Majak11-Mar-91195cm97kgWestern JetsDefender2020
24Durdin, Sam6-Jun-96198cm97kgWest AdelaideDefender2020
6Garner, Taylor8-Jan-94187cm88kgDandenong StingraysForward2020
37Hayden, Kyron R7-Jun-99186cm88kgSubiacoMidfield2020
46Hosie, Lachlan R25-Feb-97189cm78kgGlenelgForward2020
5Jacobs, Ben9-Jan-92185cm85kgSandringham DragonsMidfield2020
34MacMillan, Jamie23-Sep-91188cm89kgOakleigh ChargersDefender2020
40Murphy, Thomas R19-Jan-98189cm82kgDandenong StingraysDefender2020
30Scott, Bailey9-Jul-00186cm74kgGc Suns AcademyMidfield2020
31Taylor, Curtis6-Apr-00187cm79kgCalder CannonsForward2020
28Turner, Kayne31-Dec-95180cm75kgWodonga FootballForward2020
33Vickers-Willis, Ed28-Mar-96190cm86kgSandringham DragonsDefender2020
27Walker, Will30-Mar-99186cm78kgSandringham DragonsForward2020
2Williams, Marley22-Jul-93181cm83kgClaremontDefender2020
32Wood, Mason13-Sep-93192cm87kgGeelong FalconsForward2020
38Xerri, Tristan15-Mar-99201cm94kgWestern JetsRuck2020
44Zurhaar, Cameron R22-May-98189cm90kgEast FremantleForward2020

It got me thinking about whether we should've cut deeper last year and taken more picks to the ND, iirc we forfeited a 3rd rounder in the trades in the end.

But it's hard to pick exactly who in this list shouldn't have been brought into 2020. Some were already contracted, some were younger players we'd have anticipating getting more out of. Then there's the new coach factor and the lift we got out of some stale players in late 2019. The only player I'd have looked closer at would've been Jacobs and his long mysterious non-LTI/rookie list status.

So in hindsight there's not really much I'd have changed. As for next year, I hope we have the fortitude to choose an exact direction. For a long time it's felt we've straddled a non-rebuild rebuild (not trades for improving position etc as per the OP) yet not having a year on year successful senior unit.

If our form largely persists for the rest of the season I hope we can bear the pain of losing some mid-level players and speculating on more kids at once. Never ideal but possibly the situation we'll find ourselves in.
 

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HBFlanker

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No.

As mentioned here, we dont mess with the fabric of North by doing that.

We have destroyed Melbourne in this trade, and we just need to nail the two top 10 picks this season.

IF we decide to do anything, i would move on our 2021 first rounder in a package for quality in that bracket.
 

Tas

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The real problem on list management this year will be some of the longer contracts we saddled ourselves with.

18Atley, Shaun13-Sep-92189cm86kgMurray BushrangersDefender2021
16Bonar, Aiden6-Jan-00188cm86kgDandenong StingraysMidfield2021 (TBC)
42Campbell, Tom2-Nov-91200cm106kgBendigo BombersRuck2021
9Davies-Uniacke, Luke8-Jun-99188cm85kgDandenong StingraysMidfield2021
14Dumont, Trent30-Jun-95186cm87kgNorwoodMidfield2021
43Hall, Aaron9-Nov-90185cm85kgHobartMidfield2021
4Higgins, Shaun4-Mar-88184cm89kgGeelong FalconsMidfield2021
20Larkey, Nick6-Jun-98198cm93kgOakleigh ChargersForward2021
11McDonald, Luke9-Feb-95189cm89kgWerribeeDefender2021
23McKay, Ben24-Dec-97201cm95kgGippsland PowerDefender2021
17Pittard, Jasper1-Apr-91186cm84kgGeelong FalconsDefender2021
25Tarrant, Robbie25-Apr-89196cm97kgBendigo PioneersDefender2021
21Tyson, Dom8-Jun-93186cm85kgOakleigh ChargersMidfield2021
7Ziebell, Jack28-Feb-91188cm88kgMurray BushrangersMidfield2021

These are the guys contracted until the end of 2021.

Under normal conditions you'd think Hall, Tyson and McKay would be up for review this year. Personally I'd be looking at Atley too but there's no evidence the coaching staff feel the same way.

Some would argue Campbell's deal is odd but I think it's a good 'break glass' deal for the club and Tom, he stays in the system and contributes to our culture while we have that senior hardened ruckman to call on if Goldie hits a snag.

Looking at this year's mob, there's a few in trouble as discussed-
15Ahern, Paul1-Aug-96183cm85kgCalder CannonsMidfield2020
3Anderson, Jed2-Feb-94179cm81kgTerritory ThunderMidfield2020
50Brown, Ben20-Nov-92200cm101kgWerribee TigersForward2020
36Crocker, Joel14-Apr-00191cm78kgSandringham DragonsDefender2020
1Daw, Majak11-Mar-91195cm97kgWestern JetsDefender2020
24Durdin, Sam6-Jun-96198cm97kgWest AdelaideDefender2020
6Garner, Taylor8-Jan-94187cm88kgDandenong StingraysForward2020
37Hayden, Kyron R7-Jun-99186cm88kgSubiacoMidfield2020
46Hosie, Lachlan R25-Feb-97189cm78kgGlenelgForward2020
5Jacobs, Ben9-Jan-92185cm85kgSandringham DragonsMidfield2020
34MacMillan, Jamie23-Sep-91188cm89kgOakleigh ChargersDefender2020
40Murphy, Thomas R19-Jan-98189cm82kgDandenong StingraysDefender2020
30Scott, Bailey9-Jul-00186cm74kgGc Suns AcademyMidfield2020
31Taylor, Curtis6-Apr-00187cm79kgCalder CannonsForward2020
28Turner, Kayne31-Dec-95180cm75kgWodonga FootballForward2020
33Vickers-Willis, Ed28-Mar-96190cm86kgSandringham DragonsDefender2020
27Walker, Will30-Mar-99186cm78kgSandringham DragonsForward2020
2Williams, Marley22-Jul-93181cm83kgClaremontDefender2020
32Wood, Mason13-Sep-93192cm87kgGeelong FalconsForward2020
38Xerri, Tristan15-Mar-99201cm94kgWestern JetsRuck2020
44Zurhaar, Cameron R22-May-98189cm90kgEast FremantleForward2020

It got me thinking about whether we should've cut deeper last year and taken more picks to the ND, iirc we forfeited a 3rd rounder in the trades in the end.

But it's hard to pick exactly who in this list shouldn't have been brought into 2020. Some were already contracted, some were younger players we'd have anticipating getting more out of. Then there's the new coach factor and the lift we got out of some stale players in late 2019. The only player I'd have looked closer at would've been Jacobs and his long mysterious non-LTI/rookie list status.

So in hindsight there's not really much I'd have changed. As for next year, I hope we have the fortitude to choose an exact direction. For a long time it's felt we've straddled a non-rebuild rebuild (not trades for improving position etc as per the OP) yet not having a year on year successful senior unit.

If our form largely persists for the rest of the season I hope we can bear the pain of losing some mid-level players and speculating on more kids at once. Never ideal but possibly the situation we'll find ourselves in.
The problem is:

2019: Round 11 North Melbourne 99 vs Richmond 62
2019: Round 15 North Melbourne 81 vs Collingwood 37
2019: Round 20 North Melbourne 86 vs Hawthorn 64
2019: Round 22 North Melbourne 144 vs Port Adelaide 58
2020: Round 02 North Melbourne 80 vs GWS 60

The frustrating part is when we come out to play and the pressure is red hot and we hunt a side we can play some amazing footy and the sides we hunt do not like playing us because we hit hard and fast. I am sure the club looks at these performances and say if we can beat the recent premiers and the contenders then we should be able to sh*t it in so why would you make wholesale changes for a brand of footy that can beat the contenders?

The problem is that style of footy is all about work rate, it is extremely difficult to play that brand of footy consistently, it is like an adrenaline high, you can't constantly ride that high and you will usually have a cycle of highs and lows. The story isn't those wins, it is the shitf***ery that occurs between those good wins and the human cost that it takes to play a brutal brand of footy week in and week out. Cunners is feeling the pinch, Anderson and Simpkin are playing like they are much larger players but they will get hurt playing this brand of football.

It is great we can bring the heat when we need it, but we need much better finesse, we need class and we need to be able to beat mediocre opposition with much less effort, we are trying to sustain a finals like intensity and teams can't sustain it, most can't sustain it over a finals series, we aren't going to be able to do it over 22 games plus finals.

If we are just going to play a battering ram style of footy then we can't afford the weak links in the middle like Dumont, Polec, Hall and Higgins who do not put enough defensive pressure on. If we play a predictable brand of one dimensional footy then other clubs are going to adapt and just put in the bigger bodied players in when they play us and it is just going to mean we cop an entire season of bruising football where the opposition only get it sporadically.

We have looked our best when we have moved the ball fast, ran and spread, we have good creative players and when guys like Brown, Larkey, Zurhaar, etc get some good entries with some space up forward they are good options.

Round 1: 44 I50s vs 40 50% Conversion 34.25 disposals per goal 17.12 disposals per scoring shot 5.50 I50s per goal
Round 2: 43 I50s vs 38 60% Conversion 32.38 disposals per goal 12.95 disposals per scoring shot 4.75 I50s per goal
Round 3: 39 I50s vs 41 40% Conversion 34.00 disposals per goal 13.60 disposals per scoring shot 4.88 I50s per goal
Round 4: 32 I50s vs 45 57% Conversion 41.12 disposals per goal 23.50 disposals per scoring shot 4.00 I50s per goal
Round 5: 40 I50s vs 44 38% Conversion 53.60 disposals per goal 20.62 disposals per scoring shot 8.00 I50s per goal

This is a trend of over-possessing the ball, slow movement, not enough quick inside 50s, a lot of poor quality I50s, lack of reliability from our forwards.

When you look at our big disposal winners last week: Simpkin (20), Dumont (18), TARRANT (17), WALKER (17), Anderson (17), Goldstein (15), Polec (15) and McDonald (15). 2 defenders in the top 5, a ruckman and McDonald who was tagging.

Bulldogs: Macrae 24, Liberatore 23, Johannisen 22, McLean 22, Daniel 22, English 22. Lipinski 20

Our outside didn't get much of the ball (ToG) Polec 15 (94%), Higgins 14 (78%), Hall 5 (84%), Thomas 3 (26%)

Defensively too much is left to too few.

Our defensive 50 rebounds last week: Tarrant 10, Pittard 4, Williams 2, Walker 2, Hayden 1, McDonald 1, Dumont 1, Brown 1, Atley 1, Polec 1, Cunnington 1, Taylor 1, Xerri 1.

Tarrant had the most kicks for our side with 15, went 86.7% by foot and had 472m gained

Where is our run and carry? Simpkin had 1 bounce, that was it for the team last week. Williams had 12 disposals, 10 by food and went a total of 173 meters, an average of 14m per disposal and went 50% by foot, so even at that short range he is a coin toss if he is going to hit a target or not.

Walker 42.9% by foot, made 89m from 17 disposals, Xerri made 121m from 4 kicks at 75% by comparison. We are crabbing it something shocking down back.

Hall 3 kicks, made a total of 64m with a kicking efficiency of 0%. He might as well just given the ball to his opponent.

When we get possession of the ball in defensive 50 we need to run and spread with numbers to protect the ball carrier and/or create space/time to dispose and we need the midfield either moving into open space or moving from where they are to create space for someone else. If the opposition sags off to congest space for a press or zone then run to positions where we can create a number mismatch in out advantage, get into a position where you can block some lone guy occupying space so we can run through with 3 or so player and overlap. If you have motion and speed you can rip holes in a press or net, if you go back over the mark, chip sideways or backwards you just invite pressure and the movement stops.

We know the kind of play that is effective, that beats good teams, but we do not have the players who will play it instinctively, we try and get them to do what they are meant to do at the breaks and Shaw looks frustrated because our gameplan is really very simple, it just takes aggression and a consistency of effort but we don't have the leadership on-field that can get the team to do what they are meant to do individually or as a team.
 
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B4Bear

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There are a lot of tough calls to be made at the end of 2020, albeit not those you’ve suggested, if Brady can’t make the following calls after this year he may as well f*** off for someone that can...

- We have 5 mid sized defenders on our list that do not have AFL quality disposal (Pittard, Williams, Atley, McDonald, Macmillan). He needs to get rid of at least 2, with McDonald playing predominantly as a tagger.
- Our midfield remains one of the least quick/skilful groups in the competition, how is this going to rectified? Continuing to play midfielders that aren’t quick/skilful has run its course.
- Jack Ziebell, our captain is not AFL standard playing midfield, he either improves as a forward or something gives.
So Brady needs to fix ten years of bad drafting in a single year.

Congratulations on being nominated for dumbest post of the year. Good luck with your nomination, I am sure there will be someone trying to better you, but it will be hard for them to top this.
 

The Dingrel

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Most will agree that that our mid age group of players are not top 4 quality. Some of our seniors are stars like Higgins, Taz, Goldy and Cunners but following them apart from Polec, Brown and maybe LMac and possibly Dumont there is a dearth of quality players in the 24 to 28 yo age group.

Our under 23 group show great promise with 5 already nominated for the rising star over the last 2 seasons with quality players in Hayden, Walker and LDU yet to be nominated and each have a good excuse for not being able to show their best during that time but their time will come.

We have unknowns in Xerri, Mahoney, Bonar and Comben but each have shown glimpses but they all still have a long way to go to be quality AFL players.

I see this group potentially deliver flag number 5 but we still need more quality kids.

The Tough Call:

Trade Brown or Cunnington for 2 first rounders, one a future.

Both have excellent currency and still have a few good years left in them so 2 first rounders wouldn't be out of the question for either of them.

If the club did this we would have 5 first rounders over 2020/21 with potentially all in the top 10. This would mean we would be crap for a couple of years but it does give us access to high end talent.

What you say?
I hear you but the problem with that is it has cultural ramifications. What happens in a couple of years time when say TT is offered big coin by another club and you're trying to keep him. You're relying on culture and loyalty to keep him, and that has to work both ways by club and players. Can be done but it has to be handled right. Im more worried about JZ right now. He looks cooked, and I reckon spitta had more impact on games in his final year than what JZ has shown for some time. Jy on the cover of the roos app, I think shows who'll be captain next season.
 

ferball

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I hear you but the problem with that is it has cultural ramifications. What happens in a couple of years time when say TT is offered big coin by another club and you're trying to keep him. You're relying on culture and loyalty to keep him, and that has to work both ways by club and players. Can be done but it has to be handled right. Im more worried about JZ right now. He looks cooked, and I reckon spitta had more impact on games in his final year than what JZ has shown for some time. Jy on the cover of the roos app, I think shows who'll be captain next season.
Last year he was really good. He averaged twenty possessions and a goal, four marks, five tackles and set a tone on field. He had ten Brownlow votes as well. Kicked 24 goals playing mostly in the middle.

Heaps more impact than Spitta in his last years. He needs to be fit before he plays, that's all.
 

BigRedRoo

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AFL Club
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The two things that stand out in my mind is the reload in 2016 instead of rebuilding after the lose to Wet Toast in the prelim and our incredibly poor development record over the early and Mid Scott era that's lead to this situation.
Thankfully our development efforts seem to have improved greatly over the last few years with a number of new players that look to be on the right track.

Turn em, churn em or burn em!

I don't think trading A listers is the way to go, I think Brisbane and the Suns shows how quickly things can be turned around, Richmond had 6 five year plans without success.
We need to keep turning the list over, look at the teams that won the 96 and 99 flags and how many guys who played in 96 weren't there in 99, almost half the team changed in three years.
Either perform or go, there is no try.
 

Ether

Senior List
Oct 21, 2019
272
664
AFL Club
North Melbourne
So Brady needs to fix ten years of bad drafting in a single year.

Congratulations on being nominated for dumbest post of the year. Good luck with your nomination, I am sure there will be someone trying to better you, but it will be hard for them to top this.
Way to go with the hyperbole. The place had been a bit too pleasant with the enfant terrible having a holiday. Quite a few people seem to agree with that post fwiw.
 

B4Bear

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 6, 2011
5,547
9,685
Melbourne
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Way to go with the hyperbole. The place had been a bit too pleasant with the enfant terrible having a holiday. Quite a few people seem to agree with that post fwiw.
Good for the . If I wanted a group consensus I would go and watch Sky after Dark.
A stupid comment and people liking it does not make it correct.
 

Zondor

Premium Platinum
Oct 5, 2004
16,102
15,746
Hell
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Leigh Brown
The real problem on list management this year will be some of the longer contracts we saddled ourselves with.

18Atley, Shaun13-Sep-92189cm86kgMurray BushrangersDefender2021
16Bonar, Aiden6-Jan-00188cm86kgDandenong StingraysMidfield2021 (TBC)
42Campbell, Tom2-Nov-91200cm106kgBendigo BombersRuck2021
9Davies-Uniacke, Luke8-Jun-99188cm85kgDandenong StingraysMidfield2021
14Dumont, Trent30-Jun-95186cm87kgNorwoodMidfield2021
43Hall, Aaron9-Nov-90185cm85kgHobartMidfield2021
4Higgins, Shaun4-Mar-88184cm89kgGeelong FalconsMidfield2021
20Larkey, Nick6-Jun-98198cm93kgOakleigh ChargersForward2021
11McDonald, Luke9-Feb-95189cm89kgWerribeeDefender2021
23McKay, Ben24-Dec-97201cm95kgGippsland PowerDefender2021
17Pittard, Jasper1-Apr-91186cm84kgGeelong FalconsDefender2021
25Tarrant, Robbie25-Apr-89196cm97kgBendigo PioneersDefender2021
21Tyson, Dom8-Jun-93186cm85kgOakleigh ChargersMidfield2021
7Ziebell, Jack28-Feb-91188cm88kgMurray BushrangersMidfield2021

These are the guys contracted until the end of 2021.

Under normal conditions you'd think Hall, Tyson and McKay would be up for review this year. Personally I'd be looking at Atley too but there's no evidence the coaching staff feel the same way.

Some would argue Campbell's deal is odd but I think it's a good 'break glass' deal for the club and Tom, he stays in the system and contributes to our culture while we have that senior hardened ruckman to call on if Goldie hits a snag.

Looking at this year's mob, there's a few in trouble as discussed-
15Ahern, Paul1-Aug-96183cm85kgCalder CannonsMidfield2020
3Anderson, Jed2-Feb-94179cm81kgTerritory ThunderMidfield2020
50Brown, Ben20-Nov-92200cm101kgWerribee TigersForward2020
36Crocker, Joel14-Apr-00191cm78kgSandringham DragonsDefender2020
1Daw, Majak11-Mar-91195cm97kgWestern JetsDefender2020
24Durdin, Sam6-Jun-96198cm97kgWest AdelaideDefender2020
6Garner, Taylor8-Jan-94187cm88kgDandenong StingraysForward2020
37Hayden, Kyron R7-Jun-99186cm88kgSubiacoMidfield2020
46Hosie, Lachlan R25-Feb-97189cm78kgGlenelgForward2020
5Jacobs, Ben9-Jan-92185cm85kgSandringham DragonsMidfield2020
34MacMillan, Jamie23-Sep-91188cm89kgOakleigh ChargersDefender2020
40Murphy, Thomas R19-Jan-98189cm82kgDandenong StingraysDefender2020
30Scott, Bailey9-Jul-00186cm74kgGc Suns AcademyMidfield2020
31Taylor, Curtis6-Apr-00187cm79kgCalder CannonsForward2020
28Turner, Kayne31-Dec-95180cm75kgWodonga FootballForward2020
33Vickers-Willis, Ed28-Mar-96190cm86kgSandringham DragonsDefender2020
27Walker, Will30-Mar-99186cm78kgSandringham DragonsForward2020
2Williams, Marley22-Jul-93181cm83kgClaremontDefender2020
32Wood, Mason13-Sep-93192cm87kgGeelong FalconsForward2020
38Xerri, Tristan15-Mar-99201cm94kgWestern JetsRuck2020
44Zurhaar, Cameron R22-May-98189cm90kgEast FremantleForward2020

It got me thinking about whether we should've cut deeper last year and taken more picks to the ND, iirc we forfeited a 3rd rounder in the trades in the end.

But it's hard to pick exactly who in this list shouldn't have been brought into 2020. Some were already contracted, some were younger players we'd have anticipating getting more out of. Then there's the new coach factor and the lift we got out of some stale players in late 2019. The only player I'd have looked closer at would've been Jacobs and his long mysterious non-LTI/rookie list status.

So in hindsight there's not really much I'd have changed. As for next year, I hope we have the fortitude to choose an exact direction. For a long time it's felt we've straddled a non-rebuild rebuild (not trades for improving position etc as per the OP) yet not having a year on year successful senior unit.

If our form largely persists for the rest of the season I hope we can bear the pain of losing some mid-level players and speculating on more kids at once. Never ideal but possibly the situation we'll find ourselves in.
Zurhaar is signed on until 2022.

Where did you source that list from KC? :stern look

 

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