Umpiring Should umpires be coached during a game?

[ferball]

With the revelation that umpires are in contact with a coach during games where does that leave the AFLs integrity as a professional sporting competition?

On one hand it looks sus as and is certainly open to manipulation or at least the perception of manipulation, given umpires have recently been busted for involvement in betting scandals.

On the other the umpiring is generally so poor that perhaps its necessary.

 

[Retzlaff]

Nothing new about umpires having a coach in their earpiece. Dean Margetts had Adam Simpson in his ear for years

 

[hawkman]

Probably really comes into effect in the last quarter to try and even up the free kick count

 

[DarkPhoenix]

Made a comment to a friend a couple of weeks ago that the delay with which some frees were paid this year seemed a little suspect. We had a bit of a chuckle.

But for it to be confirmed they're being 'coached' during games is pretty shocking.

Have a chat to them at half time or whatever, but any comment that changes the way someone umpires between 2 periods of the game, really shouldn't be happening.
If they're going to call something one way, I'd prefer it remain that way for the entire game, rather than guessing at whether it will change later on.

 

[jc12]

This is shit is shocking and a disgrace, proves afl is corrupt, and it should be posted on the main board. Big footy mods trying to cover this up too?

 

[HairyO]

Made a comment to a friend a couple of weeks ago that the delay with which some frees were paid this year seemed a little suspect. We had a bit of a chuckle.

But for it to be confirmed they're being 'coached' during games is pretty shocking.

Have a chat to them at half time or whatever, but any comment that changes the way someone umpires between 2 periods of the game, really shouldn't be happening.
If they're going to call something one way, I'd prefer it remain that way for the entire game, rather than guessing at whether it will change later on.

Exactly. Right or wrong it has to be consistent. You cant allow players to drop the ball when tackled in the 1st half then call it HTB in the 2nd half.

For all the fuss, just blow the whistle quicker. It solves all the problems. If no prior, ball up. If prior, HTB.

 

[Muddiemoose]

Funny thing is the ump in the sky could actually be utilised to help eliminate off the ball shit

So many times scragging or the player who gives his opponent a little cheap hit only to cop the same back and gain a free kick is because we a told the ump didn’t see it

Use the campaigner in ear to tell the officiating ump to call a free and as soon as the players know they won’t get away with it would be stamped out pretty quickly

Have the audio freely accessible to eliminate any potential issues

 

[Bird Man]

umpire tampering at its finest from a sport that earns money from Sports Bet outcomes

 

[ferball]

This is shit is shocking and a disgrace, proves afl is corrupt, and it should be posted on the main board. Big footy mods trying to cover this up too?

Far be it from me to defend the BF sooks mods but I posted it in here cos its about umpiring. If people think it deserves a MB thread then go for it.

 

[ferball]

Exactly. Right or wrong it has to be consistent. You cant allow players to drop the ball when tackled in the 1st half then call it HTB in the 2nd half.

For all the fuss, just blow the whistle quicker. It solves all the problems. If no prior, ball up. If prior, HTB.

Some players (LDU comes to mind cos i see him do it every week,) have the ability to move and spin in tackles and not be held or controlled by the tackling player. They're able to keep their arms free and use core strength to hold the ball until the best option becomes available.

I don't think this should be penalised. The players tackling them are unable to control them or prevent them disposing of the ball to their sides best advantage.

As far as consistency goes and the evening up if frees. It definitely seems like a thing that happens every game.

It certainly raises questions about the legitimacy of the comp. In all likelihood its down to incompetence not conspiracy but we have that situation with an umpire providing information for Brownlow gambling a few years ago.

Even if its just a lack of competence it shows how unprofessional the comp is and people do gamble on it.

People bet on the number of possessions and goals that are kicked in a game.

Having umps communicating with people off the ground with all that going on is just sus.

 

[HairyO]

Some players (LDU comes to mind cos i see him do it every week,) have the ability to move and spin in tackles and not be held or controlled by the tackling player. They're able to keep their arms free and use core strength to hold the ball until the best option becomes available.

I don't think this should be penalised. The players tackling them are unable to control them or prevent them disposing of the ball to their sides best advantage.

As far as consistency goes and the evening up if frees. It definitely seems like a thing that happens every game.

It certainly raises questions about the legitimacy of the comp. In all likelihood its down to incompetence not conspiracy but we have that situation with an umpire providing information for Brownlow gambling a few years ago.

Even if its just a lack of competence it shows how unprofessional the comp is and people do gamble on it.

People bet on the number of possessions and goals that are kicked in a game.

Having umps communicating with people off the ground with all that going on is just sus.

And when he gets tackled to the ground and slams his head and the tackler gets 2 or 3 weeks suspension, while he is off with concussion?

The bigger picture is if the AFL are serious about avoiding concussions, then they need to blow the whistle quicker.

 

[SplintWhisky]

All Richmond supporters rolling their eyes

 

[Waca Jr]

Doesn't this organization love making themselves look like a corrupt pack boys club ****wits

 

[ferball]

And when he gets tackled to the ground and slams his head and the tackler gets 2 or 3 weeks suspension, while he is off with concussion?

The bigger picture is if the AFL are serious about avoiding concussions, then they need to blow the whistle quicker.

That doesn't happen very often to LDU.

You don't need to slam a player into the ground in those circumstances, you just need to control one of their arms and prevent an obviously effective disposal. Which should actually be easier to do than slamming a player to ground if the players core strength is high enough that he can't be held round the body effectively.

 

[HairyO]

That doesn't happen very often to LDU.

You don't need to slam a player into the ground in those circumstances, you just need to control one of their arms and prevent an obviously effective disposal. Which should actually be easier to do than slamming a player to ground if the players core strength is high enough that he can't be held round the body effectively.

Do we want umpires deciding on a player by player basis?

I mean, we know they already let Cripps be tackled over and over until he decides its time to drop the ball or dispose of it, but I think this would be a terrible way to umpire the game.

 

[ferball]

Do we want umpires deciding on a player by player basis?

I mean, we know they already let Cripps be tackled over and over until he decides its time to drop the ball or dispose of it, but I think this would be a terrible way to umpire the game.

if you can't control a player in a tackle and they dispose of the ball then it should be play on. Its not the same as trying to bounce while being tackled.

I expect umpires to decide on a situation by situation basis but maybe that's too much given they're possibly being told what to call from off field. Which is the point of this thread.

There is another one which is dedicated to the HTB changes and if you look at it you'll probably see the video where players who are tackled but keep their arms free and control the ball then dispose of it seconds later are not meant to be penalised.

If you want to quote me there i'll happily keep repeating myself but I feel we're getting off the point, which is should umps be coached during the game or have someone off field communicating with them during the game?

How often does an umpire 50m away and possibly out of line of sight to the incident call a free kick over a second after the incident the free is paid for?

Should that be happening?

And if it happens shouldn't it be communicated to the public and the players when it happens?

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

What's the actual issue with it?
Seems the biggest issue that most have is that they think it's dodgy, or that umps are being told what to pay, when to pay it, or that they're using it to even up free kick counts.
All of those things are ridiculous.

One thing I'd like to see it used for is the blood rule. Umps on the ground always seem to take 3-4 plays before they notice and send someone off. The TV always seems to pick it up almost immediately. I've said similar about using the ARC to do it. 90% of the time, the ARC guys are sitting there doing nothing. If there are ARC 'umpires' or umpire coaches sitting there in front of monitors doing very little for large periods, they should be put to good use. As long as we aren't slowing the game down waiting for reviews. Things like telling an ump to stop play because player xyz can be seen with flowing blood isn't an issue.

Umpire coaches aren't going to be sitting there conjuring up ways to rig games, or telling umps to call things that aren't there. The only issue I have is if it's distracting the umps from doing their job on the ground and they're missing things as a result. They also should have at least disclosed this to the clubs.

 

[Demon in Hell]

Can someone please explain to me what is the difference between this and players being coached during a game.

Storm in a teacup.

 

[ferball]

What's the actual issue with it?
Seems the biggest issue that most have is that they think it's dodgy, or that umps are being told what to pay, when to pay it, or that they're using it to even up free kick counts.
All of those things are ridiculous.

One thing I'd like to see it used for is the blood rule. Umps on the ground always seem to take 3-4 plays before they notice and send someone off. The TV always seems to pick it up almost immediately. I've said similar about using the ARC to do it. 90% of the time, the ARC guys are sitting there doing nothing. If there are ARC 'umpires' or umpire coaches sitting there in front of monitors doing very little for large periods, they should be put to good use. As long as we aren't slowing the game down waiting for reviews. Things like telling an ump to stop play because player xyz can be seen with flowing blood isn't an issue.

Umpire coaches aren't going to be sitting there conjuring up ways to rig games, or telling umps to call things that aren't there. The only issue I have is if it's distracting the umps from doing their job on the ground and they're missing things as a result. They also should have at least disclosed this to the clubs.

If its transparent and there's acknowledgement if a free is called from off field i don't have a problem with it to be honest, but its the typical opaque afl decision making I don't like. Also better trained full time professional umpires might mean it wasn't needed.

 

[Randomizor]

Wasn’t this known back in 2015 when they released audio of the umpire coach congratulating the umpires on making up a free against Ballantyne?

 

[FreoGirl]

Nothing new about umpires having a coach in their earpiece. Dean Margetts had Adam Simpson in his ear for years

is there a BF award for this? lol

 

[Del208273]

As long as directives aren't given and definitely no discussion of betting information, there shouldn't be an issue.

The problem though is transparency.

e.g. It can't be coincidence that the free kick count often 'magically' evens up in the last quarter as many observe and have commented on. It seems either the umps are told are have access to the information, which admittedly is readily available.

It's the lack of openness which makes me uncomfortable - knowing exactly what is allowed / not allowed to be discussed.

No wonder why SportsEars was discontinued by the AFL a number of years ago.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

As long as directives aren't given and definitely no discussion of betting information, there shouldn't be an issue.

The problem though is transparency.

e.g. It can't be coincidence that the free kick count often 'magically' evens up in the last quarter as many observe and have commented on. It seems either the umps are told are have access to the information, which admittedly is readily available.

It's the lack of openness which makes me uncomfortable - knowing exactly what is allowed / not allowed to be discussed.

No wonder why SportsEars was discontinued by the AFL a number of years ago.

You have to consider the whole picture, not just the final touches.
Why do we get such big free kick discrepsncies earlier in the game for it to need 'evening up'?

How can one team be so 'undisciplined' for 15 minutes that it leads to a run of 10 frees that change momentum or blow games open and then the 'undisciplined' team suddenly become disciplined followed by the other team having an undisciplined period to square the ledger.

How can you have 2 teams rack up 24 frees in a half and 1 of those teams give away none for the entire 2nd half?
What, they go from being as undisciplined as the other to becoming saints over the 20 minute halftime break.
C'mon.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

This is shit is shocking and a disgrace, proves afl is corrupt, and it should be posted on the main board. Big footy mods trying to cover this up too?

Gotta ask...why is this an issue?

 

[Del208273]

You have to consider the whole picture, not just the final touches.
Why do we get such big free kick discrepsncies earlier in the game for it to need 'evening up'?

Yep - absolutely right.

I was just giving one example, but what you say is spot on as well.

Add to that the frees given by individual umpires are recorded - but not made public.

Why not?

Lack of transparency breeds conspiracy theories.

With the AFL, I think there might be some truth to something not being quite right.