should warne be vice captain?

[walshy1993]

i think he should
he showed great ability captaining the one day side.
i dont think what he does off the field should hamper his ability to captain the side
obviously its a small consideration but has what he has done really a problem?

 

[oh_my_hat]

I think Warne is a truly great leg spin bowler but a first class smart a$$ and does not portray a good image for cricket. I think he would tarnish the image of this role IMHO.

 

[Mr Ripper]

If anyone would make a perfect captain of vice - it's Warnie.

 

[Richmondfan#1]

Definately.

What he does off the field should stay there.

He is stunning on the field so that should be rewarded.

 

[CJ]

I agree with oh_my_hat.

Although he is a great leg spinner, he does not have the leadership qualities.

As goes for Gilchrist? I'm sure the selectors could have picked someone with far more experience ie M.Waugh or (going out on a limb here) McGrath

 

[Arch]

what really gets me angry is how aussie cricket fans are quite happy to revel in the glory that comes with being the worlds greatest (by a bloody long shot), but then get all prudish about Warnies off-field behaviour.

You take the good with the bad OK ???

As far as Im concerned, Warnie is one of the greatest players of this game, that the world has ever seen, and like or not, the guy is a total lad. Its what cricket is all about i think.

If you think the "mobile phone" incident WASNT a complete Tabloid set up, then your gullible as.

If everyone just got off his back, and supported the guy no matter what- we'd have him knocking rival countries' batsmen over for much longer.

yup- he should be the vice captain for sure.

A.

 

[sainter]

Well said Arch,

I'm reading the official biography of his at the moment.

To think he grew up as someone that wanted nothing more than to play footy for St Kilda. He got as far as the reserves which isn't a bad effort.

I do think some of the unoffical biographies might be good to read though, we all know through the AFL website that the censored and 'official' sites are often not worth it.

But getting back to the question, I agree that he should be retained as Vice-Captain. No matter what people say about Warnie, not one can dispute the fact that he has a great cricket brain and his charismatic nature would be ideally suited to a leadership position.

But as for the phone call incident and others over his career, I don't think he can afford to mess up again. In the meantime, the Australian public should get off his back and allow him to do what he does best and that is play great cricket.

 

[GoEagles]

CJ - What I think the ACB is doing is try to bring the squeaky clean image of cricket back to us - with so much negative stuff happening in the game, such as match fixing, illegal bowling techniques and Shane Warne's phonecall - wonder if he used Peter Reiths phonecard?

My point being I wasn't at all suprised that Warne was stripped from his vice captain title because of what happened - and that McGrath wouldn't get it because of his onfield antics (pushing of Sri Lankan batsman comes to mind) and for Mark Waugh - his position doesn't seen to be as secure for him compared to this time last year.

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Sorry to gate crash the Warney love-in here guys but I think this 'person' should be in jail - not out on the oval.

He accepted bribes from a Cricket bookmaker - pure and simple the guy is corrupt trough and through.

And if anyone out there really truly believes that all he did was give out 'weather and pitch information' then I suppose you also think the earth is flat as well ?

Make no mistake - this guy has shown nothing but comtempt for the great game, it absolutely staggers me that he is even in the side at all - let alone being seriously touted as captaincy material.

he is a criminal who is prepared to accept bribes to fix matches - just a scandal really.

"naive and stupid" - ha ! the only naive and stupid people around here are the gormless Australian cricket fans who swallow this bullshit.

Warney - you are a disgrace to Australian sport, I hope you face criminal charges for what you have done.

On his other 'indiscretions' - tabloid beat-ups, ignore them, they are s**t.

cheers

 

[Pessimistic]

Not corrupt, Just Greedy - He should be captain for sure.

 

[Arch]

BSA,

harsh harsh harsh opinion.
Do you really think Warne has been involved in systematic match fixing during his career ???? Thats a bit over the top I reckon.

I also cant understand why you think he has shown "nothing but contempt for the game", he has played the fool quite a bit, but when you consider what guys like Cronje, Malik , Javed Miandad and other scoundrels have done, it totally pales.

If Warnie had been involved in match fixing, then how has he become our greatest ever bowler, and won us so many games off his own hand- if he was trying to lose ??? Why is it staggering that the worlds best bowler gets a place in the team ???? Its commonsense I wouldve thought.

I think labelling the guy as a crim is very harsh BSA.
You obviously have a strong opinion on this though.

A.

 

[PieGirl#41]

Yes Warnie is a true legend of the sport!! He has proved he is a good as anyother player and in some cases he is better that any other player! And it would be great if he were to get the Vice Captaincy.

------------------
Go Chippa Your A Legend

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Too right I have a strong opinion Arch

Let me take this point by point

1) Is he involved in systematic match fixing ? - Ok he has already admitted to taking money to supply 'weather and pitch information' with respect it is only a small step from this already admitted crime to doing things like dropping catches, bowling bad balls and playing stupid shots to get out. Don't forget that you are allowed to bet on lots of things in cricket games besides just the result. Don't forget Warne was (is?) talking to 'John' on his mobile all the time. If 'John' rings Warney and says a Malaysian Businessman has just waged 100,000 US that Warney will get out for a duck - well, do you honestly think that Warney will go out there and bat his best, according to the conditions and the quality of the bowling - not the fact that he will get a nice little kickback if he gets out for a duck ? - hmmmm

2)Warnes actions more than clearly demonstrate his utter contempt for the game. Again I am not criticising his 'playing the fool' - thats small bikkies and I don't particulary care how much the larrikin he likes to play. But again I have to come back to the bribes he has accepted from John the Bookmaker, seriously folks, if a cricketer accepts a bribe from a bookmaker to 'do something' in connection with a cricket game then surely this displays contempt for the game, its traditions, its standards etc ? - I most certainly do, I might be a bit of a Forrest Gump about all this I honestly howe these people can sleep at night - seriously.

3) Warnes actions DO NOT pale into insignificane compared with Malik, Cronje, Prabaker, Dev etc etc. These guys are all the same - crooks who have dragged the name of the greatest game through the mud. Warne is the same, the others stand accused of greater crimes, sure, but who can say where Warnes relationship with John the Bookmaker begins and ends ? Do you honestly think we have heard the whole story ? One day many years in the future when the dust settles we may finally learn the true extent of Warnes utterly disgraceful behaviour.

4) I will standby my 'criminal' tag for Warne, accepting bribes is a crime full stop. No beg your pardons, no 'oh but' about it. The guy broke the law - and got away with a slap on the wrist (that was covered up anyway)

5) I am not taking issue with Warnes ability. I rate him as the greatest slow bowler the game has ever seen - anywhere, anytime. Sure he is a champion player and has won many tests for Australia, almost single-handedly, BUT I'm sorry to go like this but

HE TAKES BRIBES

so you have to question where his head is at at the moment. Is he serious about playing the game ? Is he serious about playing for Australia - to the best of his ability ?

I think the only thing Warne is serious about is remebering Johns mobile phone number

sorry I will get off my Soapbox now.

 

[CJ]

Go Eagles, I was just making a point when I said M.Waugh and G.McGrath. Although, they could do a far better job at V.C. the Warney could!!!!!

BSA, I totally agree with you!

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Thanks CJ

How do you rate the Tigers' chances this year ?

I'll be cheering them on as usual, I reckon they are a great side who should be right up there again.

 

[goatmaster]

B.S.A -agree totally with regards to the Warne /Waugh bookie affair but the cricket board (who should have sacked both immediately & forever imho) promoted the man after the bookie affair . Much of what has followed world wide is no worse than these two's actions.
Warne was sacked as vice captain for making dubious phone calls which has nothing to do with cricket.
Summing up my view he should not be vice captain & should not be in the team , however the actual sacking was wrong.
Goatmaster

 

[CJ]

BSA,

I rate the tigers a pretty good chance winning a few games. Although, I will add, unfortunately I can't see them winning either the Pura Milk Cup or the Mercantile Cup

What about the Blues????

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

The only way is up CJ

The perennial problem for NSW of course is the squad is always so unsettled because players keep dropping in and out of the side according to when and whether they get called up for Australian duty.

With our best 12 available we are probably the best going around but when is our best 12 ever available ?

I predict we will certainly do better this year (thats not hard !) but don't expect us to be a genuine contender.

cheers

 

[Shinboners]

With Steve Waugh coming to the end of his career, the vice-captain should be someone that the ACB considers to be the next captain. With Warne, while I reckon he makes a good VC, I can't see him making a good captain for the country. There are two reasons why:

1. He has been tainted by the bookie scandal. Like it or not, politics matters, and Australia can hardly tell other cricketing nations what to do if their own captain is tainted. While I'm here, the mobile phone scandal/cigarette sponsorship etc. shouldn't come into calculations because that is Warne's private business. However, taking the bookie's money can be linked directly to his duties as a cricketer.

2. Leadership. I thought Warne was a good leader of men, but one incident made me think otherwise. When Warne came back from injury, the Australians played him and Stuart MacGill. Warne had a bad game, but MacGill took something like 10 wickets. Now, normally when a bowler leaves the field after 10 wickets in a match, the other players gather around and cheer him off...which they did. Except for Warne. It indicated to me that he was more worried about his own position in the side than setting aside his own feelings to give MacGill a pat on the back.

In recent history, it seems that the tactical leadership of the Australian team on the field is more of a group discussion with the captain having the final say. I think in this case, someone like Adam Gilchrist appears to be someone that is capable of leading a team full of headstrong characters.

 

[dees01]

No he should not be vice captain. With that position you are expected to behave in a manner which is respectable and be a good role model. His actions certainly don't fit that criteria.

 

[Drakey]

No he shouldn't be VC

The mobile affair in England. Set up maybe but he did make the calls. He's lucky he's not driving around in my old Cortina now while his wife takes the Ferrari, the house + the kids & walks. Bad PR & it has made him VERY unpopular with the ladies.

The nicotine patches. Took the money, kept smoking & got caught. just dishonest.

Hassling those kids in NZ. If he hadn't have made a fuss who would have known or cared. Just stupid.

Walking out of the wax works/threatening to quit when he got dropped due to bad form Just petulance.

Last & worse. Taking money from a bookie. In my "opinion" (like that Dan) his/Waugh's story is a load of old cobblers. Guys I don't know are always coming up & giving me US$5000. They should have been banned & the cover up was a disgrace.

Warne is the best spin bowler I have seen by a country mile. He also appears to be a complete dickhead.

The captancy of the australian cricket team is the biggest most prestegous position in australian sport. VC is the second. Being a great player isn't enough. You need character as well & Warnes character is lacking.

 

[Grendel]

Just want to echo Goatmasters thoughts, you and I are pretty much in agreement on Warnie and Waugh GM (gee us Hawks do stick together) he shouldnt be in the side. But to lose it (the VC) how he did was wrong.

My pick for any future captain though has got to be Ponting. More talent that kid than anyone since G.Chappell. Needs to grow up a bit though before he falls into the 'lad' label set, but he does appear to be doing so.

 

[-TotalFooty2000-]

wow, this is a hot topic.
I initially agreed with Arch and everyone who posted at the start of the topic. Then when I read the larger posts by BSA, I started to look at the bigger picture.

Forgeting about that bribery thing, he should be VC, altho he is getting towards the end of his career, so Gilly is a good choice. But then again, Fatty made a good point last night on Sam and the Fatman. What if Steve Waugh was injured or got a virus a day before the 1st Test? Gilly has only played what 10 Tests, would you pick him as captain. That is not the quesion here I know, so we'll leave it at that.

I don't give a damn about what he does off field. The media love all that stuff, they thrive on it. I CARE ABOUT WHAT HE DOES WHILE PLAYING FOR THE BAGGY GREEN.

------------------
Go to Total Footy

 

[servo]

Lets face it, the skipper of the Baggy Green is THE most revered post in this country. To hold the post you must earn it. You must be an excellent cricketer, you must be a leader of men, you must be able to hold your head high and you must be the absolute role model for the youth of this great country.

Steve Waugh is all those things as was Mark Taylor. Some captains of the past did not fulfill all of these atributes (eg: Ian Chappell being a bit of a lad) but then the public scrutiny of players back then was minimal so the stories rarely got out.

Now how does Shane Warne shape up on these atributes?
Excellent Cricketer Definately
Leader of Men Most of the time
Hold your head high not always
Absolute Role Model I don't think so

A man that has taken money from bookmakers however naively, shown contempt for a contract (smoking), shown little respect for his own family (and blames the other woman!!) cannot be looked up to by our children as THE epitome of our nation.

Add to that the disregard he has shown to his team on occasion (eg: threatening to quit just because he was rightly dropped when out of form, breaking team, ACB and arena rules by continually smoking in change rooms, as most of us believe, impersonating a television cameraman, etc.. etc..) and you have someone who we cannot trust to give the position its due respect.

Now the question was actually about the Vice-Captaincy which is a diferent question. The ACB have to look at two issues.
1. Who can captain the team in the event of Steve Waugh's temporary absence? and
2. Who will take over from Steve Waugh when he retires?

Shane Warne can cover the first point easily. He has proven he can captain and in the normal course he will be in the team. For the reasons above he cannot cover the second reason.

That IMHO is why the ACB have selected Adam Gilchrist as Vice-Captain. I however still have a problem with that decision. A wicketkeeper by design has difficulty combining their fielding position with their Captaincy responsibilities. A W/K must concentrate much more than any other player on the field and his role is more physically draining than any other role on the field. This makes him prone to errors in both roles and is therefore a bad choice.

Who then??

Mark Waugh - Ageing, similar character flaws to Warne but not as habitual, often on the brink of being dropped.

Glen McGrath - The ACB has rarely risked the form of a fast bowler by naming him Captain, also nearing the end of his career.

Ricky Ponting - Probably the ACB's next choice after Gilchrist. Also has made some mistakes in the past but seems to have matured in recent years.

Justin Langer - Appears to have all the attributes but has only recently cemented his spot in the team, also not young any more.

Darren Lehmann - proven Captaincy ability but you must be in the side to be Captain, that rules him out.

Greg Blewett - Excellent captaincy ability but his own position is not safe.


I believe the ACB will appoint Ricky Ponting as the next formal Captain with Gilchrist his deputy. Do I agree that should be the way to go? Yes I Do.

 

[CJ]

I agree Servo that Ponting will be the next captain and Gilchrist his deputy. Punter I believe, as the ability to lead the team. Gilly would be best suited for the VC job.

Mind you I was wasn't surprised that Gilchrist got the VC job ahead of Ponting this time, simply because, as Grendel said, he needs to grow up a bit. No doubt the selectors is hold the "drinking problem" (where he also hit a woman outside a night club!) against him.