The Law Should we be punished for evil desires?

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TheBrownDog
Oct 15, 2004
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Consensual sex between adults is not sex with children, though.
but in this case it was between a latex doll and a sicko

for me this is a major leap for the justice system and one based on morality than a crime. thus it is no different to the days of persecuting homosexuals for even having desires.
 

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TheBrownDog
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Where is that stat from?
I was anti the government's crack down on the internet a number of years back. The government defended their position and need due to the number of pedo activities.

This made me even more anti-internet controls, as I thought pedos represented 0.001 of the population. However it is a stat you can't find on the net, readily, so it had me investigating with health professionals. For clarification, this is a stat on those with instincts rather than acting out on these instincts.
 
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Seeds

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1 out of 10 people have pedo instincts

our jails would be full if this was a crime alone
You are probably right.

society is clearly not ready to accept that a lot of people have paedo instincts that they don’t act upon. We assume that if you have pedo desires then You will act upon them. As evidenced by a number of posters in this thread. They assume if you have a pedo sex doll then the probability of you trying to act upon real children down the track is so high that we may as well punish you now for it and invade your privacy with big brother surveliance.

But it’s likely that almost all people who have pedo desires won’t act upon them. because despite those instincts they know 1) harm to children is wrong and 2) they know their life will be ruined if they are caught. People are influenced by external sub conscious stimuli but we also have the power of reason as well. We have a view of right and wrong and we understand consequences of actions.
 

FireKrakouer

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Prohibition is rarely an effective strategy.

Presumably we have the same goal of reducing child sex abuse. I honestly don't care what strategy is used if it can be shown to work.
But have you seen my recent logic about how adult sex dolls don't reduce rape? Widespread adult porn availability doesn't reduce rape? Adult prostitute availability doesn't reduce rape?

We have an incel movement who have literally conducted several terrorist attacks, were they content with sex dolls or hookers?

Your desired research would lead to more child abuse, going by current data and common sense. It's a huge risk to take, are you willing to take it?

Normalising one of the worst crimes of humanity = bad.
 

Seeds

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10% of the population?
This was once what we said about gays
Do you remember when Anna kournakova was a 13 year old tennis player? I was also only 13 at the time but played in senior sport teams at the time and worked with adults as well and there were a lot of over 18s in those times pining over her. 1 in 10 may be too low.
 

Seeds

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But have you seen my recent logic about how adult sex dolls don't reduce rape? Widespread adult porn availability doesn't reduce rape? Adult prostitute availability doesn't reduce rape?

We have an incel movement who have literally conducted several terrorist attacks, were they content with sex dolls or hookers?

Your desired research would lead to more child abuse, going by current data and common sense. It's a huge risk to take, are you willing to take it?

Normalising one of the worst crimes of humanity = bad.
Why does it have to reduce it to be legal?

chocolates don’t reduce rape. Should we ban chocolates?
 

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TheBrownDog
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It’s more than that. I don’t agree with this as being some sort of victimless non-crime.
but the argument supporting this position is "the thin edge of the wedge". what evidence do you have, that he will go on to child porn or attack a child?

This is why I suggest it is a medical issue not a criminal issue. Or do you feel courts no longer need evidence? Or worse, lock people up for future possible crimes?

Although I truly accept your position (and even would agree in some individual circumstances of pre-emotive action), it is a dangerous position to actually adopt. It's Putin like.
 
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Seeds

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Because it normalises the most heinous of crimes.
How does it do that if the dolls are kept hidden in ones bedroom and away from public view?

Even if you are right and it does normalise it violent video games normalise violence which is also the most heinous crime. Do you think violent video games should be banned?
 
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Seeds

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They are acting out their fantasies. It’s just an opportunity away from an actual attack IMO.
Omg thats all you have? Nearly every married couple over 30 should be punished and dragged through the courts for acting out teacher and school girl fantasies. And they do it with real people not just plastic.
 

Seeds

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I see that the main argument for Banning and criminally penalising child like sex dolls is that it normalisés child abuse.

but is this true? First there is the E cigarette argument but Let’s ignore that and say it’s not valid.

how does child sex dolls normalise child abuse whilst the criminal penalty for child abuse is 20 plus years in prison and the most extreme form of public shaming imaginable? Why would anyone think that the existence of child sex dolls would offset that? Child sex abusers are shamed more than murderers. There is just no possible way that child like sex dolls normalise child abuse whilst those criminal and social punishments exist. It’s not a valid argument. anyone using Child sex dolls would keep them well hidden from the public because of the exteme Social shaming they receive even if they were legal.

now I clearly haven’t framed my op appropriately as the main issue I was trying to address wasnt should child like sex dolls be legal. The main issue is in regards to whether the punishment is just?

even if they are illegal (I personally don’t care either way) there is no reason why someone should be given a criminal conviction, invasion Of privacy and public shaming by the media. A more appropriate punishment would be an anonymous fine and counselling sessions.

would those who advocate they be banned think this is a more appropriate penalty or would they still prefer that they be given a criminal conviction, possible prison time and public shaming that would definitely destroy any career they may have as well as ostracise them from their friends and community? Just cos they rooted a piece of plastic.
 

Geelong_Sicko

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...now I clearly haven’t framed my op appropriately as the main issue I was trying to address wasnt should child like sex dolls be legal. The main issue is in regards to whether the punishment is just?

even if they are illegal (I personally don’t care either way) there is no reason why someone should be given a criminal conviction, invasion Of privacy and public shaming by the media. A more appropriate punishment would be an anonymous fine and counselling sessions.

would those who advocate they be banned think this is a more appropriate penalty or would they still prefer that they be given a criminal conviction, possible prison time and public shaming that would definitely destroy any career they may have as well as ostracise them from their friends and community? Just cos they rooted a piece of plastic.
I feel that the fairest possible outcome would be that there should be mandatory reporting by businesses of the destination of any child sex dolls bought and the purchasers should be put on a 'watch' list rather than be registered as a sex offender.
 

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TheBrownDog
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For me this is a health issue, as a person's sexual desires are what they are. Be it gay, be it straight, be in children, animals or other fetishes including rape fantasies.

Where the line is crossed is when they act on those desires and it is not consensual or a breach of the law. A latex doll be it of the Queen, an animal, a dwarf, a child or Scomo; all be them all very distasteful and the concept truly weird, it should not be punishable under law by itself. By that I mean no jail time, no fine and no public shaming such as a sex offenders register.

A legal stick is required though, to enforce the health services and monitoring to mitigate the risk of escalation. This may result in chemical castration or other health determinations such as "time out".



One way to look at this is druggies being provided access to "safe injection rooms". Turning what would otherwise be a criminal issue into a health issue can deliver positive results.

It also opens dialogue, so the vulnerable of offending can seek help rather than go underground and mingle with their peers.
 

sorted

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I think it comes back to disgust. Rightly we are disgusted by sexual acts on children as they cannot meaningfully consent, and for other good reasons. Our disgust extends to people who have such thoughts. But we should not punish people just for their desires. These dolls sit somewhere in the middle. They are a step further from just desire, and also too realistic towards the disgusting thought of the real thing for us to accept them. The evidence around them is mixed so people will form their own opinions based on previous bias.

For many years same sex acts in private were illegal. I think that this was mostly down to disgust. And the current public nudity laws are about current tastes and disgust more than anything else.
 

Present Not Past

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These dolls should be treated like firearms. You have to demonstrate a need to own one, undergo a police check and then put on a registered list. Sure people can own them but we know what can happen if they fall into the hands of the wrong person. If you fail to comply, prison time.
 

Seeds

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No. See rest of thread.
You basically posted the same argument. Fantasies lead to action. then you ignore the responses to this assertion. Just like you did with this very post. Ignored a fantasy commonly played out that almost never leads to action. You also ignored the point that it may be A tool used to satisfy a desire sufficiently so that it doesn’t lead to action.

where do you stand on the punishment? Even if you think it should definitely be illegal what do you think is a fair and reasonable punishment?
 

Geelong_Sicko

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Buying and “using” a paedo doll is action.
I know I've taken the username Geelong Sicko and that might well imply a healthy appetite for sexual perversion. It's there but I am very much a sex-positive consenting-adults-only kind of person and the very idea of child sex dolls worry me on a few levels. Normalisation is a risk. Escalation an even bigger one. Monitoring isn't fool-proof and even with a list of users who get checked often some will fall through unnoticed, or outright lie about their condition.

However there is a bigger picture and I don't know that criminalising the action at that stage is the right approach either. To my way of thinking there is a need to give non-offending paedophiles some kind of incentive in approaching the health system with their problem so that it doesn't become an overtly criminal matter.
 

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