The Law Should we be punished for evil desires?

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Seeds

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Moving away from the sex doll example. Here is another:


been given 10 months jail and labelled the most hated man in Australia for being a heartless bastard. The articles say this isn’t enough and he should get more jail time?. But why?

I don’t get what crime he committed? He didnt cause their deaths. He wasn’t found guilty of refusing to help as it appears they died instantly.

he fled after being arrested. So he should be charged for that. But I don’t get why he got 10 months jail?

anyone explain?


it seems like another violation of basic Human rights here because People just don’t like it.
 

Chief

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Speeding while drunk and high because he wanted some sushi, abused dying cop, took pictures of dying cop, videos of him threatening and abusing other people at other times, among other things I know about that I don't think have been made public.

He's real scum.
 

Seeds

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Speeding while drunk and high because he wanted some sushi, abused dying cop, took pictures of dying cop, videos of him threatening and abusing other people at other times, among other things I know about that I don't think have been made public.

He's real scum.
But what’s the crime?

note the speeding wasnt what the 10 months prison was about.

yelling at dead bodies. I don’t see how that’s a crime?
taking pictures of dead cops? What’s the crime?

hes a di** Who has mental health issues. since when does that mean prison time.
 

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sorted

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But what’s the crime?

note the speeding wasnt what the 10 months prison was about.

yelling at dead bodies. I don’t see how that’s a crime?
taking pictures of dead cops? What’s the crime?

hes a di** Who has mental health issues. since when does that mean prison time.
The police are rightly angry at this bloke. Chief wants to lock up and throw away the key for anyone who disgusts him.

The OPP and courts should be above all that and dispense justice impartially. The bloke has served several months inside for what amounts to a traffic offence.
 

Geelong_Sicko

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But what’s the crime?

note the speeding wasnt what the 10 months prison was about.

yelling at dead bodies. I don’t see how that’s a crime?
taking pictures of dead cops? What’s the crime?


hes a di** Who has mental health issues. since when does that mean prison time.
What he was charged with here is 'outraging public decency'


It is an offence at common law to outrage public decency. The act must be done in a place where at least two members of the public might see it. Where the act is plainly indecent and likely to disgust and annoy, the jury are entitled to infer such disgust and annoyance without evidence that anyone was disgusted or annoyed. It may be committed in a number of ways, e.g. by engaging in or simulating a sexual act, displaying earrings made of human foetuses, or publishing outrageously indecent material...
and


Outraging public decency is a common law offence in England and Wales, Hong Kong[citation needed] and the Australian states of New South Wales and Victoria. It is punishable by unlimited imprisonment and/or an unlimited fine...
Interesting to note that it's a crime only in NSW and Victoria! Here's the write-up of what Pusey actually did.


...The outraging public decency charge relates to Pusey filming a minute-long video of the dying police officers, including Senior Constable Taylor who laid on the road "moaning" in pain.

The court heard he failed to render assistance to the officers - instead zooming in on their fatal injuries while making disturbing commentary.
When first responders asked him to help the dying officers, including to hold a blanket, Pusey continued to film.

His case is the first time the outraging public decency offence has been formally charged in Australia.

Judge Wraight described Pusey's conduct as "heartless, cruel and disgraceful" in the sentencing hearing today, noting his case represented a "serious example" of outraging public decency.

"(It) was not only derogatory and horrible, but it was also callous and reprehensible conduct," he said. "A normal human reaction for a person coming upon a scene like this would be to telephone triple-zero.

"What you did, however, was film the scene with a running commentary."

The judge added Pusey seemed to "take pleasure" out of the destruction of the police officers.

"It can also be described as extremely insensitive and heartless," he said. "Your focus was entirely on yourself."

However, the judge found there was evidence of Pusey having "genuine remorse" over his conduct following the accident.
Pusey later described his own actions as "derogatory" and "horrible".

Witnesses had observed Pusey to be in "some form of shock" and visibly distressed in the aftermath of the crash, Judge Wraight said.

He added Pusey did not upload any footage of the accident to social media...
 

Fire

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But in this case there are a few corollaries that are important.

There IS a link between watching child exploitation material and actually raping kids.

There is also a link between watching child exploitation material and owning one of these dolls.

I dont see it as being an unreasonable inference that it goes from fantasy, to exploitation material, to doll to doing the deed.

There is also the issue that these dolls normalize sex with kids. That's irrefutable, and its a social harm that is deserving of prohibition via criminal sanction.
I'm genuinely curious. What are the links?

I would imagine someone who rapes kids is also gonna consume CP and buy this doll. So the fact there's a link would hardly come as a surprise.

But the question is, do pedophiles that consume CP or buy this doll end up raping kids more frequently than pedophiles that don't? This is the only link that really matters, and I don't really know how it would be possible to establish.

Maybe it's a gateway and leads to more child rapes. But maybe it's an outlet and leads to fewer.

Is there research that indicates this either way?
 
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Kram

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Porn is not real life and like it or not kids have access to it in a way that was never there in pre internet days. Personally I think you'd be better off watching some with them, as excruciating as it would be for all concerned and try explain that what they see on the screen is most likely to be not what they experience. You're welcome to make it as mucky as you like and living rent free in your head as I am I'm sure you'd like to imply that there's something here that there isn't.
Yeah creepy as hell that post was dude. Go ask your neighbours with kids what they think of your 'educational' idea for children.
I think they'd consider it "grooming" rather than "educating".

A decent parent would restrict a child's internet access. If the child sees something X rated elsewhere, maybe on a friend's phone or something, that's when you educate. You don't go out of your way to watch it with them.
Exactly and it's not exactly rocket science on how to manage the issue.
 

Seeds

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The police are rightly angry at this bloke. Chief wants to lock up and throw away the key for anyone who disgusts him.

The OPP and courts should be above all that and dispense justice impartially. The bloke has served several months inside for what amounts to a traffic offence.
I would be angry too. But just cos I’m angry doesn’t mean he has committed a crime worth many months in prison.

he didn’t kill the cops.
 

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Seeds

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I'm genuinely curios. What are the links?

I would imagine someone who rapes kids is also gonna consume CP and buy this doll. So the fact there's a link would hardly come as a surprise.

But the question is, do pedophiles that consume CP or buy this doll end up raping kids more frequently than pedophiles that don't? This is the only link that really matters, and I don't really know how it would be possible to establish.

Maybe it's a gateway and leads to fewer child rapes. But maybe it's an outlet and leads to fewer.

Is there research that indicates this either way?
I don’t think there is strong evidence either way.
 

Leeda

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If you get together guns, masks, plans of the local bank, and a getaway car it’s pretty obvious what you’re planning to do.
yeah yeah.. stick em up dude.. the holding of guns is my pet dislike .. anything else like bashing and burglary and even
rape and well I guess those are just a few of the social abominations well we should get on board with the police and
get rid of them when we can..
 

sorted

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What he was charged with here is 'outraging public decency'

and

Interesting to note that it's a crime only in NSW and Victoria! Here's the write-up of what Pusey actually did.
I'm disgusted by the outraging public decency laws! If there is one more person who feels the same way then whoever played a part in those laws being enacted should be locked up.

It is an offence at common law to outrage public decency. The act must be done in a place where at least two members of the public might see it. Where the act is plainly indecent and likely to disgust and annoy, the jury are entitled to infer such disgust and annoyance without evidence that anyone was disgusted or annoyed​
 

mattf83

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Yeah creepy as hell that post was dude. Go ask your neighbours with kids what they think of your 'educational' idea for children.

Exactly and it's not exactly rocket science on how to manage the issue.
Second post I have seen from him re: watching porn with kids.
 

Madas

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A couple of days ago thé Queensland courts said yes. We should.


no harm against humans has been caused. The judge admits that. But he has punished the person with a 2 year prison sentence because his actions may increase his propensity to commit harm against people. He has no proof that it will by the way. Some may argue that having access to dolls may reduce the likelihood of those with evil desires towards children to actually commit acts against children. This is the argument used for Ecigarettes. I.e. They don’t encourage kids to take up smoking but instead provide an alternative for those addicted to tobacco And lead to reduce cigarette use amongst this group. I.e. the E cigarette argument applied to child like sex dolls suggests child like sex dolls may reduce the propensity of sex crimes against children not increase them.

But even if the judge is right and they do increase the propensity of child abuse. A crime is still Yet to be committed. Surely we can’t punish people for evil desires alone? We have to wait for an actual attempt of those evil desires to be acted upon as until they are we just have no way of knowing if the person would act upon them. And yes this person was put on automatic probation But he is now a convicted criminal and his reputation has been ruined. he is going to seriously struggle to be à part of the community going foward. Is this fair?

who else has not had desires to commit crime but not acted upon them? I would say almost all of us. As a kid I used to wonder what it would be like to rob a bank. Played cops and robbers and even created props. Drew plans of how it would be pulled off. Statistically such a person would have a higher probability to rob a bank then the population on average. Should I have been punished for exhibiting a desire to rob a bank And therefore a higher propensity to commit such a crime?

i think this is vast overreach by the state and a violation of human rights. Does anyone else agree? The state should never pénalise us for our desires. It’s none of their business.
Should be punished cause it's just fu**en weird !
 

Leeda

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how does chief get to do what he/she does and how do they get to display themselves so emphatically..

he.. generic warp version.. how does he get a gateway to the long stand-in ...

so go on screw me and ban me and diving into the ether..

been here long enough to know the system.. hallo chief.. I said I would be up all night.. and so I am... :think:
 

ShanDog

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Not Talking about a film
Talking about kids lives being ruined by selfish weirdos who prey on others to fulfill their creepy desires
Gee thanks for clearing that up lmao

The film has a moral/message, that's the point. And that point is that if you start punishing people for things they MIGHT do, rather than what they actually do, everything goes downhill very quickly.
 

ShanDog

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If they are using a paedo doll, they are already doing something.
This is a bullshit argument Chief, and I really struggle to understand it. Who are they doing this 'something' to? The only justification you could make is that it's against some form of social standard, in which case we might as well start public floggings again and weighing women against a duck to see if they're a witch.

If I want to go fu** a car exhaust pipe, it's no drama. But a plastic doll? "Heretic. Lock him up". It makes no sense. It's a reaction and argument that comes from the exact same place that extremist religious people draw their outrage for various unimportant things from - some sort of disgust mechanism.
 

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