Discussion Should we go after Alastair "Brick Bandit" Clarkson?

[Diehard Saint]

That’s pretty F:;KIng rank by SEN DISGUSTING

They will run adds and segments on mental health but do that to Ratts

All talk and no responsibility.
Bottom feeders the lot of them.
Next thing it’ll be back to the “dead man walking” headlines,.

 

[StCicatriz]

That’s pretty F:;KIng rank by SEN DISGUSTING

They will run adds and segments on mental health but do that to Ratts

next up

should we respect mental health... have your say... call us on 1300 s**t campaignerS

 

[George]

Look at the difference Voss has made at Carlton.

Yes they have a decent list.... but up until now they've been playing well under where they should have been at.

That's fair. Personally I thought the Blues were ready to explode a few years ago so always had a good laugh at them always fumbling it away. They are playing to expectation now but also they have one of the best midfields in the competition and that's probably the main difference between us and them. If we bring in a new coach I doubt it changes much as the personnel need to be improved. I don't think we are turning guys like Jones, Byrnes, Bytel, etc into anything more than good depth players. Carlton have genuine A grade types running through the middle and it's been the biggest reason they've shot up the ladder. It's an improvement in coaching coupled with a side beginning to realise their potential.

We need to keep pumping games into the first year kids to see how high our ceiling goes. To me we have the build of a one hit wonder side. We could snatch a premiership with the group we've got now but the list is in a very different place in comparison to the list we built in the early/mid 00's going into late 00's. If we are honest with ourselves the reality is that we don't have as many top end young talent as other sides. Our young talent is terrific, don't get me wrong, and I reckon some of them will be league-best type players at their positions, but we need more of them.

And also don't get me wrong on snatching a premiership, I don't particularly care how we do it. I don't care if we went for a side full of 30 year olds who have one final go around in them. But if we've built moreso for snatching a flag than being up there for years on end then I would hope we actually make it worthwhile and win one. Being up the top restricts your access to top end talent so while you're there you need to make it count. I think we've gone about the build in an unusual way but that's not to say I am writing it off. It's just unusual. We've decided to bring in top end younger players like Higgins than draft them. I guess we'll see how it plays out but to bring it back to Carlton I think they were primed to push up the ladder they just needed proper guidance - similar to when Ross came to us in 07. A side with shitloads of talent just needing to steer that in the right direction.

 

[Sun Ra]

That's fair. Personally I thought the Blues were ready to explode a few years ago so always had a good laugh at them always fumbling it away. They are playing to expectation now but also they have one of the best midfields in the competition and that's probably the main difference between us and them. If we bring in a new coach I doubt it changes much as the personnel need to be improved. I don't think we are turning guys like Jones, Byrnes, Bytel, etc into anything more than good depth players. Carlton have genuine A grade types running through the middle and it's been the biggest reason they've shot up the ladder. It's an improvement in coaching coupled with a side beginning to realise their potential.

We need to keep pumping games into the first year kids to see how high our ceiling goes. To me we have the build of a one hit wonder side. We could snatch a premiership with the group we've got now but the list is in a very different place in comparison to the list we built in the early/mid 00's going into late 00's. If we are honest with ourselves the reality is that we don't have as many top end young talent as other sides. Our young talent is terrific, don't get me wrong, and I reckon some of them will be league-best type players at their positions, but we need more of them.

And also don't get me wrong on snatching a premiership, I don't particularly care how we do it. I don't care if we went for a side full of 30 year olds who have one final go around in them. But if we've built moreso for snatching a flag than being up there for years on end then I would hope we actually make it worthwhile and win one. Being up the top restricts your access to top end talent so while you're there you need to make it count. I think we've gone about the build in an unusual way but that's not to say I am writing it off. It's just unusual. We've decided to bring in top end younger players like Higgins than draft them. I guess we'll see how it plays out but to bring it back to Carlton I think they were primed to push up the ladder they just needed proper guidance - similar to when Ross came to us in 07. A side with shitloads of talent just needing to steer that in the right direction.

Are you off the booze, pipes and pills or something ? Your posts seem more, how shall I say.......lucid..... than times passed.
That's a good thing unless someone else has hacked you and is using your login. Always a worry.....

 

[Sully111]

That's fair. Personally I thought the Blues were ready to explode a few years ago so always had a good laugh at them always fumbling it away. They are playing to expectation now but also they have one of the best midfields in the competition and that's probably the main difference between us and them. If we bring in a new coach I doubt it changes much as the personnel need to be improved. I don't think we are turning guys like Jones, Byrnes, Bytel, etc into anything more than good depth players. Carlton have genuine A grade types running through the middle and it's been the biggest reason they've shot up the ladder. It's an improvement in coaching coupled with a side beginning to realise their potential.

We need to keep pumping games into the first year kids to see how high our ceiling goes. To me we have the build of a one hit wonder side. We could snatch a premiership with the group we've got now but the list is in a very different place in comparison to the list we built in the early/mid 00's going into late 00's. If we are honest with ourselves the reality is that we don't have as many top end young talent as other sides. Our young talent is terrific, don't get me wrong, and I reckon some of them will be league-best type players at their positions, but we need more of them.

And also don't get me wrong on snatching a premiership, I don't particularly care how we do it. I don't care if we went for a side full of 30 year olds who have one final go around in them. But if we've built moreso for snatching a flag than being up there for years on end then I would hope we actually make it worthwhile and win one. Being up the top restricts your access to top end talent so while you're there you need to make it count. I think we've gone about the build in an unusual way but that's not to say I am writing it off. It's just unusual. We've decided to bring in top end younger players like Higgins than draft them. I guess we'll see how it plays out but to bring it back to Carlton I think they were primed to push up the ladder they just needed proper guidance - similar to when Ross came to us in 07. A side with shitloads of talent just needing to steer that in the right direction.

Agree with everything you said.

My point is coaches can make a big difference. Even with their talent, I don't believe Carlton would be where they are now if they'd have kept Teague on.

 

[George]

Agree with everything you said.

My point is coaches can make a big difference. Even with their talent, I don't believe Carlton would be where they are now if they'd have kept Teague on.

Yeah you're right I think they'd be middling away between 7-12th like usual

 

[RWBlyf]

Frontrunner in three-club Clarko chase — and sneaky dark horse as coaching race heats up

Frontrunner in three-club Clarko chase — and sneaky dark horse as coaching race heats up

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[NarklesHelmet]

And vice versa, just because we’re not performing at the moment (3 games) doesn’t mean changing coaches will turn our fortunes around.

And there’s the rub….nobody has a clue, so much is down to timing and luck.

We’ve been there, done that with the messiah coach.
As I mentioned before, Thompson, Hardwick, Williams, even Clarko
himself were nearly shown the door, the clubs kept faith and the rest, as they say, is history.

Having said that, I have absolutely no idea which way we should go, but I think it’s already done and dusted we should we should probably close this thread in 3….2….1.

The problem is we’ve only really ever had the “messiah” coach once in Malcolm Blight.

It was a different era of footy and, while many thought of it as a failure, his appointment alone got us a lot of good players through the door that helped in the Thomas era.

I personally think it the Blight hiring was a bold move by the club well worth the risk.

Unfortunately we’ve never had the foresight/timing/bottle to land -a genuine gun “messiah” coach in my time supporting the club.

As someone mentioned, our problem hasn’t been the sacking of coaches, it’s the hiring.

Ross Lyon is the only hire that we’ve nailed and that was through the unproven coach route which is far riskier.

Getting potentially the greatest coach to ever coach through our doors -motivated and refreshed from time off to boot? We’ve never had that option before.

A club like ours with a floundering coach playing awful footy should move heaven and earth to make it happen.

Anything else and the supporters should march on the club and tip Bassett and co. out.

We’ve had enough, I’m no massive fan of Grant Thomas but he is a Saints person through and through and he’s right. St Kilda people aren’t standing for this crap any more. We have had enough with another rebuild looking like it’s going belly-up.

Bassett, time to show us whether you are truly a Saints person or not. No more talk of extending Ratten from this second forward until we have made finals.

And for God’s sake you, and only you, start contacting Clarko. Don’t let the other amateurs near these negotiations.

 

[gringo2011]

The problem is we’ve only really ever had the “messiah” coach once in Malcolm Blight.

It was a different era of footy and, while many thought of it as a failure, his appointment alone got us a lot of good players through the door that helped in the Thomas era.

I personally think it the Blight hiring was a bold move by the club well worth the risk.

Unfortunately we’ve never had the foresight/timing/bottle to land -a genuine gun “messiah” coach in my time supporting the club.

As someone mentioned, our problem hasn’t been the sacking of coaches, it’s the hiring.

Ross Lyon is the only hire that we’ve nailed and that was through the unproven coach route which is far riskier.

Getting potentially the greatest coach to ever coach through our doors? We’ve never had that option before.

A club like ours with a floundering coach playing awful footy should move heaven and earth to make it happen.

Anything else and the supporters should march on the club and tip Bassett and co. out.

We’ve had enough, I’m no massive fan of Grant Thomas but he is a Saints person through and through and he’s right. St Kilda people aren’t standing for this crap any more. We have had enough with another rebuild looking like it’s going belly-up.

Bassett, time to show us whether you are truly a Saints person or not. No more talk of extending Ratten from this second forward until we have made finals.

And for God’s sake you, and only you, start contacting Clarko. Don’t let the other amateurs near these negotiations.

It would be fitting if the Saints coach turned them into a powerhouse in the 80s and theirs turn us into one now. Worst case he ups the standards IMO.

Blight also retired and came back for cash after already having two extended stints at clubs. I feel Clarko is up for a challenge again.

 

[George]

Are you off the booze, pipes and pills or something ? Your posts seem more, how shall I say.......lucid than time passed.
That's a good thing unless someone else has hacked you and is using your login. Always a worry.....

I was involved in another argument on this board a few days ago and was going to go to admin to sort the situation out as it had escalated to a point that I felt was serious enough to involve them in however I spent some time reflecting on it and ultimately I know I can bring more to this board than boring tit-for-tat drama and honestly I'm sick to death of it too. There's the arguments I have with folk that don't understand that moderation of their content is not a personal attack, which is one thing and I am happy to educate them on (normally not much you can do with someone who immediately believes it's a personal vendetta - which if I'm brutally honest is sometimes true but a overwhelming majority of the time it's not), but then there's the other back and forths that if I'm being honest I play a part in and don't do enough to help change or eradicate.

Instead of making the situation worse and dragging it on, I decided to let it go and move on. I will stress that this doesn't excuse their behaviour because if it happens again they will be dealt with appropriately but I believe I've had some pretty over the top stuff said to me and about me over time however that doesn't excuse the part I sometimes play in it either. For the last few months I've actively tried to avoid conflict here, primarily for the reason that it's exhausting to deal with. There's disagreeing with people's opinions which as a poster here I am entitled to do, and then there's baiting or demeaning other posters and I reckon I dip my toe in the latter too often. I would however appreciate an apology from the poster (knows who he is) who had accused me of being a racist a couple of years ago which is what has played a part in the issues I have with him. I hadn't forgotten about it, found/find it extremely offensive and it's probably one of the worst things you can accuse someone of - especially if you've never met. I'm not sure how well a PM will go down but if he needs placating/resolution too I am happy to offer that to him. I'm sure he will read this.

I'll tell ya it's a bloody difficult job and it's made worse when not only we're losing but everyone is telling everyone else how s**t we are. I'm not a happy-clapper (good phrase that) but part of what we do is try and steer discussion in the "right" direction and I can do much better at that - so I will at least try - not by telling people how to post but moreso how I can influence or direct a discussion with the way I post and I how behave. It's a bit cathartic actually. I'm enjoying it.

 

[Sun Ra]

I was involved in another argument on this board a few days ago and was going to go to admin to sort the situation out as it had escalated to a point that I felt was serious enough to involve them in however I spent some time reflecting on it and ultimately I know I can bring more to this board than boring tit-for-tat drama and honestly I'm sick to death of it too. There's the arguments I have with folk that don't understand that moderation of their content is not a personal attack, which is one thing and I am happy to educate them on (normally not much you can do with someone who immediately believes it's a personal vendetta - which if I'm brutally honest is sometimes true but a overwhelming majority of the time it's not), but then there's the other back and forths that if I'm being honest I play a part in and don't do enough to help change or eradicate.

Instead of making the situation worse and dragging it on, I decided to let it go and move on. I will stress that this doesn't excuse their behaviour because if it happens again they will be dealt with appropriately but I believe I've had some pretty over the top stuff said to me and about me over time however that doesn't excuse the part I sometimes play in it either. For the last few months I've actively tried to avoid conflict here, primarily for the reason that it's exhausting to deal with. There's disagreeing with people's opinions which as a poster here I am entitled to do, and then there's baiting or demeaning other posters and I reckon I dip my toe in the latter too often. I would however appreciate an apology from the poster (knows who he is) who had accused me of being a racist a couple of years ago which is what has played a part in the issues I have with him. I hadn't forgotten about it, found/find it extremely offensive and it's probably one of the worst things you can accuse someone of - especially if you've never met. I'm not sure how well a PM will go down but if he needs placating/resolution too I am happy to offer that to him. I'm sure he will read this.

I'll tell ya it's a bloody difficult job and it's made worse when not only we're losing but everyone is telling everyone else how s**t we are. I'm not a happy-clapper (good phrase that) but part of what we do is try and steer discussion in the "right" direction and I can do much better at that - so I will at least try - not by telling people how to post but moreso how I can influence or direct a discussion with the way I post and I how behave. It's a bit cathartic actually. I'm enjoying it.

Does that mean I'm not banned then ?

 

[George]

Frontrunner in three-club Clarko chase — and sneaky dark horse as coaching race heats up

Frontrunner in three-club Clarko chase — and sneaky dark horse as coaching race heats up

www.foxsports.com.au

3 horse race yet she mentions the following clubs;

GWS
St.Kilda
Essendon
Tasmania
Gold Coast
North Melbourne

I mean she's bound to be right. Genius move by Caro there

 

[NarklesHelmet]

It would be fitting if the Saints coach turned them into a powerhouse in the 80s and theirs turn us into one now. Worst case he ups the standards IMO.

Blight also retired and came back for cash after already having two extended stints at clubs. I feel Clarko is up for a challenge again.

Yeah exactly.

I reckon a big part of a pitch to Clarko for us would be to turn us into the powerhouse club of the region meaning you’d be giving him the opportunity to scupper the Hawks and their plans for further expansion and success.

He’s a bit of a campaigner and would love revenge on Kennett (this could sadly work in Essendon’s favour too).

As I said, the main thing is getting Bassett, and only Bassett, involved in negotiations and selling our vision.

Someone like Finnis would have a bright idea like getting him to coach our AFLW side.

 

[George]

Does that mean I'm not banned then ?

You are loved and appreciated.

Why would you be banned?

 

[Sun Ra]

You are loved and appreciated.

Why would you be banned?

Just Joking.

 

[Longmembrey]

Well, there's a lot to unpack here and I'll try my best haha. For the record I actually agree with you. One side of me is the Saints supporter who wants to put everyone on rolling 1 year contracts but you've got to also look at it as objectively as you can because some things are just what they are.

I will say that as any head coaching contract there are certain parameters but at the end of the day if both parties agree to it then I don't see a reason it can't be facilitated. Ratts could agree to a rolling 6 month deal or do what Bolton did at the Blues but I think we need to remember these are extreme scenarios and really not the "norm" or the standard when a club works through a contract with a coach and his manager.

Regarding Scott and Geelong, I think that clause is true of all contracts. Before the AFLCA and AFL introduced the 6 month max payout in 2020, poorly run clubs were getting reamed by paying out the entirety of a coaches contract or an amount determined by both parties. Usually it was a lot more than just 6 months worth of salary. So to keep poorly run clubs from siphoning more cash the AFL introduced this clause, which to be honest is horrendous for coaches for obvious reasons but it protects AFL clubs and more broadly the game itself. So if any coach is terminated before their contract expires the payout is only ever 6 months and nothing more.

I would say forced is the wrong word, I'd say that's just the reality of the contract. It's standard across the league that all coaches and assistants need to be told one way or another by August 1 at the latest. Some of them agree with their clubs to tell them earlier (July) but usually the norm is Aug 1. Keeping the position open and reapplying is a good idea I reckon. You've got to probably weigh up the body of work and if the 11 weeks we had prior to the form slump hold more weight than what we've seen lately. We must accept the fact there's going to be risk associated with signing or sacking him. We are in the unfortunate position of not knowing how the rest of 2022 will play out before we need to make a decision. But this happens all the time to all clubs. Risk involved everywhere.

I would disagree with you on your last point mainly for Hardwick and Goodwin. They both were under scrutiny to perform in the years that they were out of contract. Granted they did show that they could get their respective teams to perform but I wouldn't say that either of them made the job theirs. Buckley was similar IIRC. I think Goodwin made the job his own last year really. Coming out of nowhere to win the flag. Hardwick and Buckley similar, made the job theirs in the year after the contract scrutiny IMO. But that's just an opinion.

Yep, well said. What i meant re Bevo / Goodwin / Hardwick is that right now they would be in demand so have power over their clubs to not let them fall out of contract.

My point is Ratten, whether he is our man or not, has not earned that position of power. The power is with the club, not him.

But otherwise agree with what you have said

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Yeah exactly.

I reckon a big part of a pitch to Clarko for us would be to turn us into the powerhouse club of the region meaning you’d be giving him the opportunity to scupper the Hawks and their plans for further expansion and success.

He’s a bit of a campaigner and would love revenge on Kennett (this could sadly work in Essendon’s favour too).

As I said, the main thing is getting Bassett, and only Bassett, involved in negotiations and selling our vision.

Someone like Finnis would have a bright idea like getting him to coach our AFLW side.

Well i guess we could pay for him by getting rid of the head of football, CEO, most of the board..... It'd just be him, his assistants, and the trainee receptionist, oh and Amon's mum. ( It would be a bit like Grant Thomas days ).

Seriously, i think the days when the coach called all the shots are well and truly numbered, and the head coach has enough on his plate.

 

[St Neil]

3 horse race yet she mentions the following clubs;

GWS
St.Kilda
Essendon
Tasmania
Gold Coast
North Melbourne

I mean she's bound to be right. Genius move by Caro there

She certainly has the field covered. It could be any of them so don’t rule any of them out, although North is very unlikely. No s**t Sherlock!

Clearly she doesn’t know. It’s a nothing story. Rubbish journalism.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

Well i guess we could pay for him by getting rid of the head of football, CEO, most of the board..... It'd just be him, his assistants, and the trainee receptionist, oh and Amon's mum. ( It would be a bit like Grant Thomas days ).

Seriously, i think the days when the coach called all the shots are well and truly numbered, and the head coach has enough on his plate.

In all seriousness, I’d think him coming in would be a catalyst for a review/clean-out for a few assistants and other coaches/positions at the club.

Likely keep Enright, ship off Lade and McGlynn with Clarko bringing in an assistant of his own. Let Clarko make the call on Rath/O’Shaugnessy (are they really adding value?).

I’m seen it around on forums a bit where people say the days of head coach being the most important thing are gone now.

I’m not sure where that comes from. I follow other sports more tactically evolved than AFL and having a head coach setting the standards is just as important as ever.

Melbourne in the AFL the only exception but blind Freddy can see the actual coaches of that team are Choco and Yze with Goodwin back-slapping and encouraging from the sidelines.

 

[Sun Ra]

Well if we have missed the boat on Clarkson maybe we could still get him to do a review of our football department
over 4 weeks a la Walsh at North ? Some fresh eyes ? Get him in to review things, after we re-appoint the coach, sure,
you might say. The horse has bolted and all that. A bit unusual I know, but maybe we learn something ?

Just give him $100K over 4 weeks to find out how you lose three in a row following the bye. I don't think we have an answer to that at the minute.

 

[stavro#4]

Close the thread.

 

[gringo2011]

Close the thread.

That’s either good news or bad news. Being a Saints fan I’m imagining it’s a 5 year clause free contract for Ratts on $2 million a year.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

I’ve seen some dumb decisions in my time as a 40+ year supporting of this team but if it’s true that we are re-signing a coach (not achieving success) when the best coach ever is available would have to take the cake.

Reckon I and many will be emotionally done - certainly financially.

Sign up Clarko and not only would I upgrade my membership and my families (I have next to no possibility of seeing games live) but I’d throw in a few grand too I reckon.

No longer will I give money to an organisation - no matter how much I love them - that can continue to make such stupid, decisions and shoot themselves in the foot continually.

For *s sake, didn’t we learn anything from signing up Richo unnecessarily in 2017 after half a good season?

I doubt I’d be alone in the above either. I reckon there’s a whole bunch of 35-60 year olds who are completely fed up with this club and the way it’s run.

 

[wolfpac13]

Ratts has already signed a few weeks back. There's no going back and we're not getting Clarko.

I would ignore anything and everything in the media.

Completely bummed out to be honest but what can we do?!

 

[George]

That’s either good news or bad news. Being a Saints fan I’m imagining it’s a 5 year clause free contract for Ratts on $2 million a year.

I'm hearing whispers that every time he tries to crack a joke in a press conference they add an additional 50k bonus to his pay.