List Mgmt. Should we let Betts go?

[Murray2503]

If our Club was ruthless, at least 6 players would have played their final game over the past weekend.

This could be a sliding doors moment in the history of our Club. Unfortunately the sliding door needed to be operated before the 2018 Super Draft.

Better late than never but agree it should have begun after 2017 GF debacle.

 

[mattymac]

No. No-one would give us anything for him, and he offers a lot off the field too. You’d think it would have a negative impact on the group and would be a total PR disaster too.

Plus, farrrrrrrrr out there are half a dozen players would should be cutting/trading ahead of Betts I can name just off the top of my head. Sort out that low hanging fruit first before worrying about getting tricky.

What's clearly going on here is Betts' manager is trying to get another year out of us. He's aiming at us extending Betts to 2020.

He's already contracted for next year. We don't have to do anything.

The question is do we want to extend his contract beyond next year, like gold coast* are supposedly offering.

That would see him through to 35.



*keep in mind he's kicked a full one third of his goals this year against gold coast.

 

[Murray2503]

What's clearly going on here is Betts' manager is trying to get another year out of us. He's aiming at us extending Betts to 2020.

He's already contracted for next year. We don't have to do anything.

The question is do we want to extend his contract beyond next year, like gold coast* are supposedly offering.

That would see him through to 35.



*keep in mind he's kicked a full one third of his goals this year against gold coast.

I think he is already gone. Discussions put off until end of season is code for amicable split. Clarko urged his captain Luke Hodge to go. Best decision Hodge has made. May end up a 5 time premiership player.

 

[hey shorty]

Yep especially as we will get nothing for him. But Eddie might not want to stick around which would be another nail in our club

It would be the final nail for this admin.

 

[1991firstgamer]

Yes

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[Big Crow]

See out his contract next year, we’ll end up paying a decent chunk of it even with a trade and it’s unlikely we’ll get anything for him.

Douglas, Jacobs, Mackay, Hartigan, Otten, and Atkins could all be chopped off the list one way or another well ahead of Betts. That’s without even going into those who didn’t play seniors on the weekend!

Then get to the end of 2020 and if he wants to go to the Gold Coast Luke Hodge style then go with our blessing.

Mind you, if GC offer up something decent this year then let’s talk.

 

[hey shorty]

I think he is already gone. Discussions put off until end of season is code for amicable split. Clarko urged his captain Luke Hodge to go. Best decision Hodge has made. May end up a 5 time premiership player.

Hes contracted for next season.

We would have to trade him and we won't get anything for him.

 

[TexForPM]

There's ruthless and stupid.
If we push him out we are stupid. The amount of support and mentoring he could do for players is critical.

Plenty of other old farts that need turfing.
Eddie ain't one of them.

 

[Scorpus]

I think you have to look at it from this perspective: what do we gain from Betts leaving?

"Draft picks" - no, he has no trade value. We'd be lucky to get pick 60.

"We'd play the kids, time to look at the future" - we don't have to play Betts and could play the kids anyway

"It's good for Betts allowing him to further his career" - how does that help the club exactly?

"Get his salary off the books" - he's only contracted for one more year and we'd gain far more dumping players like Jenkins and Gibbs

"It would make us ruthless" - how does being ruthless for the sake of being ruthless help the club?


And what would be lose from Betts leaving? It would hurt morale, we'd lose a potential great off-field mentor and coach, we'd improve the opposition for free, and the club would lose a marketing asset.

No deal.

 

[mattymac]

I think you have to look at it from this perspective: what do we gain from Betts leaving?

"Draft picks" - no, he has no trade value. We'd be lucky to get pick 60.

"We'd play the kids, time to look at the future" - we don't have to play Betts and could play the kids anyway

"It's good for Betts allowing him to further his career" - how does that help the club exactly?

"Get his salary off the books" - he's only contracted for one more year and we'd gain far more dumping players like Jenkins and Gibbs

"It would make us ruthless" - how does being ruthless for the sake of being ruthless help the club?


And what would be lose from Betts leaving? It would hurt morale, we'd lose a potential great off-field mentor and coach, we'd improve the opposition for free, and the club would lose a marketing asset.

No deal.

What do we get from Betts staying?

He's kicked 24 goals this year against non-gold coast teams.

How much better will 33 year old Betts be in 2020? Or 34 year old Betts in 2021?

The expectation from the Betts camp is clearly that we either match and extend him to 2021 or let him go to someone who will play him until 2021.

Let him go. Win for all parties. We get cap space and a spot for a player who might be here when we next contend. GCS get some experience. Eddie gets an extra year and 600k.

 

[Murray2503]

What do we get from Betts staying?

He's kicked 24 goals this year against non-gold coast teams.

How much better will 33 year old Betts be in 2020? Or 34 year old Betts in 2021?

The expectation from the Betts camp is clearly that we either match and extend him to 2021 or let him go to someone who will play him until 2021.

Let him go. Win for all parties. We get cap space and a spot for a player who might be here when we next contend. GCS get some experience. Eddie gets an extra year and 600k.

I dont get other posters objections to betts leaving. Is he first 22 next year? No. How many games would he likely play? 3 to 4 at best. It would be pure selfishness of the afc to stand in betts way to earn himself potentially another 1.5m(extra year on 600k and 2 years of coaching). Likely the club is pushing Betts to do this. The clubs goal should always be to mutually benefit the player club relationship.

 

[Scorpus]

What do we get from Betts staying?

He's kicked 24 goals this year against non-gold coast teams.

How much better will 33 year old Betts be in 2020? Or 34 year old Betts in 2021?

The expectation from the Betts camp is clearly that we either match and extend him to 2021 or let him go to someone who will play him until 2021.

Let him go. Win for all parties. We get cap space and a spot for a player who might be here when we next contend. GCS get some experience. Eddie gets an extra year and 600k.

Forget everything Betts provides on the field. No other club is recruiting him to be a superstar on the field either. We keep him to strengthen our off field and player development given he is just about the best small forward the game has ever seen.

If the expectation is we match or let him go... well we do neither, because he's contracted for 2020. Offer him a transition plan to an off-field role comparable to what Gold Coast is offering. The money will be far better spent than on some hack like Ben Hart or Brett Burton

 

[Scorpus]

I dont get other posters objections to betts leaving. Is he first 22 next year? No. How many games would he likely play? 3 to 4 at best. It would be pure selfishness of the afc to stand in betts way to earn himself potentially another 1.5m(extra year on 600k and 2 years of coaching). Likely the club is pushing Betts to do this. The clubs goal should always be to mutually benefit the player club relationship.

So now we've gone from "the club isn't ruthless enough" to "we need to put a player's best interests ahead of the club".

Part of being ruthless is doing what's best for us, and not giving up assets to our opposition for free

 

[Donkey Magoo]

I really don’t get how Tex and Eddie in our FWD line have been made the scapegoats for our midfield and coaching woes. Add in how disastrous JJ’s selection is to the team and Shazam were cooked. Eddie has been fine. Our i50s have been crap, he does good with what he has to work with.

 

[Scorpus]

I really don’t get how Tex and Eddie in our FWD line have been made the scapegoats for our midfield and coaching woes. Add in how disastrous JJ’s selection is to the team and Shazam were cooked. Eddie has been fine. Our i50s have been crap, he does good with what he has to work with.

Yeah. Sure, he's only kicked 24 goals this season (excl. Gold Coast games), but how does that compare to other small forwards?

Charlie Cameron - 39 (ouch)
Michael Walters - 34
Sam Lloyd - 32
Tom Papley - 31
Luke Breust - 31
Brandon Matera - 30
Gary Ablett - 28
McDonald-Tipunwuti - 27
Eddie Betts - 24
Connor Rozee - 24 (if he counts as a small forward)
Jamie Cripps - 22
Liam Ryan - 22
Gryan Miers - 22
Toby Greene - 19
Sam Gray - 19
Orazio Fantasia - 18 (low games)
Jason Castagna - 17
Lincoln McCarthy - 17
Lachie Murphy - 14

Yeah, he's not averaging the three goals a game he used to as the best small forward in the competition. But he's still contributing 1.4 goals a game and has only gone goalless against three teams (Geelong, Port and Essendon)

If people are expecting him to still be a top 5 small forward in the competition, then yeah he's been disappointing.

 

[Murray2503]

So now we've gone from "the club isn't ruthless enough" to "we need to put a player's best interests ahead of the club".

Part of being ruthless is doing what's best for us, and not giving up assets to our opposition for free

The way i see it our list is the oldest in the comp by far. We also have a ridiculously obscene amount of salary tied up in players aged 29 and over. What is the reason for that? Poor list management and an incorrect assessment of where the club was at post 2017. Could even say it goes back as far as 2015. What is the end result of this? A continual player exodus of players we need. An inability to attract decent trades and free agents as we can't match and beat other bids for players. Lastly continued mediocrity.

Lets be honest Betts best was back in 2016 to 2017. He is most likely on 550 to 650k per year i would presume. If Betts accepting a great opportunity for him and his family means we keep Keath and attract Luko or Grundy due to the salary cap relief sign me up. Betts isn't the only one that should be moved. I would trade Jenkins, Gibbs, Knight, Atkins, Poholke, Kelly, Greenwood. Retire or trade if possible Mackay, Douglas, Otten, Jacobs. Why? I want us to get better and finally win a flag. I would also consider trades for Laird and one of the Crouches if the offers were too good to refuse. Our goal should be to gain as many top 30 picks as possible and use them wisely through trade and draft. That way our rebound will be hastened dramatically. We may be able to attract Grundy or Luko or even god forbid Coniglio. Unlikely he would ever come here. We would also likely keep the likes of Fogarty, Doedee, Gallucci, Jones, Mchenry, Butts, Hamill etc together for 10 years and grow together as a group instead of being raided by those victorian parasites.

I don't have attachments to players at the expense of the club. I have attachments to the club first and foremost. Club's that value the club and its success over sentimentality win flags. What can be annoying with some of our supporter base is that they say they want change but if the club initiates it in a manner where sentimentality isnt the largest consideration then they are the first to criticise the club. Its then no wonder the club backs away from making tough decisions. Not talking about youself btw but some posters talk a big game but are unwilling to support anything the club iniates that may have risk attached to it. I do know that by taking no calculated risks the club will continue down the same path.

 

[mattymac]

Well said. This thread is baffling. I guess people aren’t really ruthless when it comes down to it either?

It's like crows fans are locked in a toxic relationship. They love the drama and the complaining, but when push comes to shove and a solution is on offer they prefer to keep things as they are. It will give them more drama and complaining in the future.

 

[subaru]

Ring Hawthorn and ask Clarkson what he would do.

... I can’t trust our club to make good decisions anymore*
Although if he wants to go back to Vic eventually maybe the sooner the better.


*Never thought I’d say that

 

[subaru]

It's like crows fans are locked in a toxic relationship. They love the drama and the complaining, but when push comes to shove and a solution is on offer they prefer to keep things as they are. It will give them more drama and complaining in the future.

BSS

Battered Supporter Syndrome

 

[Jcpdragonx]

Only reason to keep him is for off field stuff

 

[TheLeftFist8]

He’s not cooked.

He’s still our best small forward.

Along with Sloane, the most culturally important player at the club.

Most popular Crow in the AFL.

To sell him off for nothing just to rejuvenate a list which has been mismanaged? Two wrongs don’t make a right! There are 12 other blokes we could offload before Betts!


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[FR0GGY]

Was it Daniel Giansiracusa that became a professional sub at the end of his career?

Lyons, oh wait..

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

Of all the players I would like to add to our off-field team permanently ... Betts is #1.

He can head up our indigenous programme. He can mentor the small forwards.

In this clubs life, we've had three spiritual Players who have effected the crowd, I've never seen anywhere like. My first memory of sport is watching kerry packers umpires give gus gilmore a hatrick, to increase ratings. So I've seen a bit.

Two of three still put into the club. Modra and Mcleod.

Betts won't leave adelaide.

He will be found a role at the club.

Look at some Of say West Coast spiritual players. Dead or in gaol.

Gellongs spiritual players, feeds teenage girls heroin until thier death.

Ports blew all Thier Money and asked for welfare. Making stigma worse.

You can go through most teams and find something much different than us. Ours have character, morals and give back long after they stopped getting paychecks.

They get on with life and are better humans for thier time thrilling us.

Betts will Probably retire at seasons end

 

[mattymac]

I don't get this "culturally integral" argument. None of our senior players are worth keeping to pass on their culture to the next generation.

None of them have had any success.

It's not like they're Luke Hodge who can pass on the secrets of winning big games.

 

[Crow till I die]

If gold coast are after him and eddie is seriously considering it, then we need to be on the front foot and as a contracted player tell GC that we will facilitate it as part of a much larger trade to bring lukosius to the crows. If it means adding pick 3 and greenwood also we should do it. But if lukosius is off the table then we need to be targeting their brisbane pick by adding a greenwood and maybe jenkins. We can't just let him walk there contracted for a nominal amount if it does not also benefit us greatly