Should we play 4 quicks and no spinner in 3rd Test against India?

Should we go into the 3rd test match with 4 quicks and no spinner?

  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

Blue and Gold Blood

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Posts
5,133
Likes
1,813
Location
perth
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
west coast
Thread starter #1
So Watson has been ruled out of 2nd test in Sydney if this article is correct: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...ame-for-scg-test/story-e6frg7mf-1226232482621

Now if there is a pitch in Australia that a spin bowler like Lyon should thrive on, then it is Sydney. My question is, if Lyon fails to take any top order wickets in Sydney in the 2nd test, should he be replaced with Watson for the 3rd test?

It would mean we have 4 fast bowlers and no spinner, but with Siddle, Hilf and Patto bowling so well in Melbourne, you couldnt justify dropping any of them. A straight swap of Lyon out, Watson in would obviously increasing out batting ranks since Lyon is an absolute bunny, and we would have 4 genuine threats with the ball. As a type this Lyon is getting smashed to all corners of the MCG by Indias 10th and 11th batsmen, and luckily Warner takes a rippa catch on the boundary to give Lyon a wicket.

Do we really need a spinner if they arent quality?
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

roostersgal4eva

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
May 9, 2002
Posts
16,173
Likes
120
Location
Adelaide United 4EVA
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
North Adelaide Roosters
#3
NO NO NO AND NO

I'm sick and tired of changing the side due to knee jerk reactions over one innings...pathetic.

MCG is a hole for spinners, and India plays spin like shelling peas. SCG is the best ground for spinners in the country and you want to drop one? Nice logic

Imagine if we had this attitude when Warnie started - wouldn't get a game...
 

Blue and Gold Blood

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Posts
5,133
Likes
1,813
Location
perth
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
west coast
Thread starter #5
NO NO NO AND NO

I'm sick and tired of changing the side due to knee jerk reactions over one innings...pathetic.

MCG is a hole for spinners, and India plays spin like shelling peas. SCG is the best ground for spinners in the country and you want to drop one? Nice logic

Imagine if we had this attitude when Warnie started - wouldn't get a game...
you didnt even read the thread title properly, let alone the rest of the OP :rolleyes:
 

azreal

Club Legend
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Posts
1,173
Likes
100
Location
kingston
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
umpires
#6
NO NO NO AND NO

I'm sick and tired of changing the side due to knee jerk reactions over one innings...pathetic.

MCG is a hole for spinners, and India plays spin like shelling peas. SCG is the best ground for spinners in the country and you want to drop one? Nice logic

Imagine if we had this attitude when Warnie started - wouldn't get a game...
He is talking about the 3rd test...
 

roostersgal4eva

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
May 9, 2002
Posts
16,173
Likes
120
Location
Adelaide United 4EVA
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
North Adelaide Roosters
#7
My bad....I just got the two venues mixed that's all

We need to play one spinner and stick to him not chop and change all the time

Lyon will be fine....we need a little patience whilest he learns that's all...you guys didn't read it all either if your happy with the OP bagging him in the process
 

aussie1st

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Posts
5,426
Likes
134
AFL Club
Sydney
#8
Depends on the pitch and if Watson can bowl which seems unlikely. If the pitch is like this one then 4 pacemen is the way to go, Lyon was surplus to requirements and at times we really could have used a 4 seamer in particular when resting the new ball bowlers. OF course also depends on who is fit, if the 4th seamer is Starc then no thanks.

And if Watson can bowl then you play him as a batsmen and have 4 seamers plus the spinner.
 

aussierulesrules

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Posts
27,001
Likes
45,887
Location
Heaven. I mean Victoria.
AFL Club
St Kilda
#11
Why the bloody hell not?
I think it was a big blooper playing Lyon in the Bellerieve test against NZ (could easily have cost us the game- look how well NZ did without Vettori), once we saw it was a greentop and that there was rain forecast for all 5 days (with the game also unlikely to go that long) and you could easily argue that we didn't need him in Melbourne, either, on a pitch they say doesn't wear.
He's basically just bowled a few overs in these past two games to give the others a rest, not because we think we really would prefer someone bowling spin at the time.
So if Perth also looks like suiting fast bowling, I would be perfectly happy to see us go in with 4 "quicks". Having said that, Brisbane was bouncy and he did well there (albeit with 5 of his 7 wickets batting at 9, 10, 11).
They're talking about having a "rotation policy" with the "quicks", so why not be flexible with those bowling spin as well? There will be some pitches where he won't be needed, so it won't be the end of the world giving him the game off for those ones and bringing in someone that could actually be a weapon. :thumbsu:

Think of it this way, who would you rather in Perth, if it's a pitch that really suits fast bowling? Siddle, Hilfenhaus, Pattinson and Harris, for instance, or Siddle, Hilfenhaus, Pattinson and Lyon? I vote the former, if Harris is fit and firing, thank you very much. I think India would also have their fingers and toes crossed that we would pick Lyon over Harris (if fit) in that game, too.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Blue and Gold Blood

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Posts
5,133
Likes
1,813
Location
perth
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
west coast
Thread starter #12
We haven't even seen the pitch for perth, 4 years ago they served up a bloody slow turning track at the waca for our Indian masters.
Well its a Perth pitch, and the temperature is in the high 30's, and it wont drop below 30 before the test.

Geez it was a hypothetical question, IF Lyon cant take wickets in Sydney. Fair enough i reckon, especially if Watson declares himself fit to bowl.
 

Underarm

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Feb 13, 2011
Posts
7,404
Likes
7,489
AFL Club
Richmond
#13
I doubt Watson will be good to bowl by then, and If it isn't him playing then no.

Even then it would be touch and go. Watto isn't better bowler than siddle, patto_man and hilfenhous. He'd have to replace a batsmen.
 

Doodlesweaver

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Apr 17, 2010
Posts
12,962
Likes
5,115
Location
London
AFL Club
Fremantle
#14
Why the bloody hell not?
I think it was a big blooper playing Lyon in the Bellerieve test against NZ (could easily have cost us the game- look how well NZ did without Vettori), once we saw it was a greentop and that there was rain forecast for all 5 days (with the game also unlikely to go that long) and you could easily argue that we didn't need him in Melbourne, either, on a pitch they say doesn't wear.
He's basically just bowled a few overs in these past two games to give the others a rest, not because we think we really would prefer someone bowling spin at the time.
So if Perth also looks like suiting fast bowling, I would be perfectly happy to see us go in with 4 "quicks". Having said that, Brisbane was bouncy and he did well there (albeit with 5 of his 7 wickets batting at 9, 10, 11).
They're talking about having a "rotation policy" with the "quicks", so why not be flexible with those bowling spin as well? There will be some pitches where he won't be needed, so it won't be the end of the world giving him the game off for those ones and bringing in someone that could actually be a weapon. :thumbsu:

Think of it this way, who would you rather in Perth, if it's a pitch that really suits fast bowling? Siddle, Hilfenhaus, Pattinson and Harris, for instance, or Siddle, Hilfenhaus, Pattinson and Lyon? I vote the former, if Harris is fit and firing, thank you very much. I think India would also have their fingers and toes crossed that we would pick Lyon over Harris (if fit) in that game, too.
That's not even quality hindsight. He took 3/38 in that match.
 

aussierulesrules

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Posts
27,001
Likes
45,887
Location
Heaven. I mean Victoria.
AFL Club
St Kilda
#15
That's not even quality hindsight. He took 3/38 in that match.
Yes he did. And who were the 3 he got out (all late in the 2nd innings)? Bracewell, Southee and Boult (batting at 8, 9 and 10). Yippee.
Imagine if Hilfy, for instance (at his home ground), had played that game instead of him, on that greentop, in those overcast conditions, with the ball moving all over the place? He'd have been jizzing in his pants in anticipation.
He's surely been on the radar of those selecting the team for a while (all he's played since then is a couple of T20's, from memory), so it's not hard to imagine he could have played there and would probably have ripped NZ a new one in those conditions.
It could easily be the same for Harris v Lyon in Perth. :thumbsu:

I want to win every game. Picking the best team for the conditions of every game is more likely to help us achieve that goal, IMO, especially if it's just an occasional change. We just had 3 changes to the team for this game and how did it work out? Morale seemed to be fantastic and we kicked ass. I'm sure Lyon would be mature enough to know it's not personal and that it's done in the team's best interests.
 

Kyptastic

Premiership Player
Joined
Oct 4, 2010
Posts
4,692
Likes
3,580
Location
Anywhere but here
AFL Club
Essendon
#16
We've played 4 Fast men in Perth twice in the past 4 years - against India and England. Didn't work against India, although you could argue Tait was a poor selection then. Whilst we won against England, 2 bowlers took 18 wickets between them. Whilst it worked for the Windies for a long time, history shows that there's very little 4 fast bowlers can do that 3 cannot. A spinner provides an excellent point of difference and can give the quick men a break.
 

aussierulesrules

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Posts
27,001
Likes
45,887
Location
Heaven. I mean Victoria.
AFL Club
St Kilda
#17
Seriously, though, who do you reckon India would rather be facing in Perth, if it's a typical Perth pitch? Lyon, who bowls good, but orthodox (ie. no doosra's, suduko's etc) spin, that they are super-confident against, or someone like Harris, who, like Hilfy, Patto and Siddle, they struggle against far, far more, especially if they move it, which Harris does brilliantly?
If we want a "point of difference" there is Clarke, Hussey and Warner and if you want someone to give the 3 "quicks" a break, another "quick" will also do that, as could the other 3 (Clarke, Hussey and Warner).
 

Bradesmaen

Hall of Famer
Joined
Apr 8, 2007
Posts
34,473
Likes
8,796
Location
London
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
SJ Sharks/Everton/NY Jets
#18
Yes he did. And who were the 3 he got out (all late in the 2nd innings)? Bracewell, Southee and Boult (batting at 8, 9 and 10). Yippee.
Imagine if Hilfy, for instance (at his home ground), had played that game instead of him, on a greentop, in overcast conditions?
He's surely been on the radar of those selecting the team for a while, so it's not hard to imagine he could have played there and would probably have ripped NZ a new one in those conditions.
It could easily be the same for Harris v Lyon in Perth. :thumbsu:
Who else is going to get the tail out? Not Starc, Pattinson or Siddle. They are awful tail bowlers, because they have rocks in their heads. Bowl at the stumps, you will either get them out tonking or bowl them, especially Yadav. But no, keep bowling Bouncers that they leave alone Patto...
 

aussierulesrules

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Posts
27,001
Likes
45,887
Location
Heaven. I mean Victoria.
AFL Club
St Kilda
#19
Who else is going to get the tail out? Not Starc, Pattinson or Siddle. They are awful tail bowlers, because they have rocks in their heads. Bowl at the stumps, you will either get them out tonking or bowl them, especially Yadav. But no, keep bowling Bouncers that they leave alone Patto...
Yes, that's a good argument. :thumbsu: :eek: Lets pick someone to get out the tail, which, by the way, the "quicks" did in the first innings in Tassie and the first innings in Melbourne (and all bar one in the 2nd innings) and which Lyon only did today after getting spanked around for a bit. I'd much rather have someone in the team to get out the tail than someone who would get the top order.:eek:
 
Joined
May 24, 2006
Posts
50,192
Likes
82,887
Location
Car 55
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Redbacks, Sturt, Liverpool, Arizona
Moderator #21
We need Lyon to develop into a quality test spinner.

And that means one who is able to bowl against the best opposition and in a variety of conditions.

These test against India and the game in Perth are crucial for his development. If he can survive and contribute at times this series then we've got a keeper. Plus he'll improve no end bowling in this series.

Hide him away and we're taking the wrong path IMO.
 

aussierulesrules

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Posts
27,001
Likes
45,887
Location
Heaven. I mean Victoria.
AFL Club
St Kilda
#22
It's not about "hiding him away", it's about picking the best team for that game, to suit the conditions we'll be confronted with in that game, to give us the best chance of winning that game. It would have nothing to do with Lyon. It's about playing each ball on its merits, so to speak. It's why those on the professional golf tours don't just mindlessly pull out their drivers on every par 4 or 5, simply because they're long enough holes to use them.
He'll be able to learn plenty in the other 3 games and if this becomes our permanent selection philosophy (horses for courses/ best team for the conditions) then he may never have to learn how to play in those sort of conditions (at least in a test match), as he may never be needed to play in those sort of conditions for Australia again.
He can be a "keeper" without having to play every single game.
 

freocuz

Premiership Player
Joined
Oct 5, 2004
Posts
3,599
Likes
880
Location
Outside the norm
AFL Club
Fremantle
#24
I don't have a problem with Lyon, he's a good spin option for us. However, offspin bowlers pose no threat to the Indian batsmen. They grow up facing them, and aren't in the least bit scared of it.

India are the one team in world cricket who should be facing an all pace attack in Perth.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom