Should we trade McCartin?

[Winmar2Lockett]

Crap. They take as long as they take, there are no guarantees.

Absolutely spot on.

People conveniently excuse the dire state our list was in only 4 season back. We do not have the core of senior players in their mid to late 20's that many rebuilding teams have.

Kids develop at different rates & just because we have a few slow burners does not meet they won't eventually live up to their talent.

The miserable, glass empty, sky is falling Henny Penny's around here must be absolute joys to live with.




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[NeXus Nick]

McCartin was a massive mistake right from the start. Forget his Diabetes, forget he is overweight, forget his head knocks, the game has moved on from stay at home full forwards. The proto-type full forward is Cameron from GWS. If there was no one like him in the 2004 Draft then St Kilda should have taken Petracca at number 1. Whichever way you put it, Trout and Bains should be sacked for using pick 1 on McCartin. Simple as that.

 

[sonnywalters]

Development IMHO isn't the issue. Paddy is definitely AFL quality, so he needs to be ******* playing there, not at Sandy.

Every game at Sandy is stalling his development.

Patrick Dangerfield played SANFL.

 

[StCicatriz]

Melbourne.

Doesn't that prove my point? Melbourne are onto their 2nd rebuild they realised the first one failed at this point of our rebuild and started to restructure things. Including poaching recruiters from the pies, grabbed a new fitness guy etc.

I'm not saying it's failed yet but if the discussion is we need another development year then that's conceeding it's not on track

 

[pluggeranddoc]

Well it's not crap. Look at it historically. If you can name another club that took longer to make their first final from a rebuild and then win a flag, I'm all ears

Melbourne, Brisbane

 

[Rors]

Patrick Dangerfield played SANFL.

Yes, in his first season he played in the SANFL & im pretty sure he's never played reserves since

 

[VDS66]

Let's break it down, shall we...

Paddy is yet to show either way if he will make it or not.

Why the hell would you trade him now, only to see him go one and star for another club? That to me me is more negligent than picking him ahead of Tracca.

With Stanley, he was a known quantity when we moved him on.

Paddy should be traded if and only if he does not improve into a best 22 player over the next year and a bit.

Club is and has invested a lot into him to just cut him when he may take the next step.

Sure, you can argue that if a great offer came along, but what if that top 10 pick turns out a bust?

 

[Saintbloke]

Can you please provide the approved time frame for a rebuild please?

The rebuild is like sand castles- you start building, then the tide comes in and washes it all away and then you start all over again. The smarter clubs build their castles a bit further away from the the water line and the castles stay in place a lot longer. My Sunday reflection


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[sonnywalters]

Let's break it down, shall we...

Paddy is yet to show either way if he will make it or not.

Why the hell would you trade him now, only to see him go one and star for another club? That to me me is more negligent than picking him ahead of Tracca.

With Stanley, he was a known quantity when we moved him on.

Paddy should be traded if and only if he does not improve into a best 22 player over the next year and a bit.

Club is and has invested a lot into him to just cut him when he may take the next step.

Sure, you can argue that if a great offer came along, but what if that top 10 pick turns out a bust?

Pretty simple equation.
If we believe Paddy is only a 30% chance of being good and we believe we have a 40% chance of getting a good player with pick 15.
Then you go with pick 15.
If we think Paddy is a 50 50 and the Pies offer us pick 5 and we think pick 5 gives a 55% chance of a good player. You probably take pick 5.
If we believe Paddy is an 80% chance of being good then we keep him.

 

[sonnywalters]

Yes, in his first season he played in the SANFL & im pretty sure he's never played reserves since

Yes because he performs at a high level when he plays in the AFL.

 

[VDS66]

Pretty simple equation.
If we believe Paddy is only a 30% chance of being good and we believe we have a 40% chance of getting a good player with pick 15.
Then you go with pick 15.
If we think Paddy is a 50 50 and the Pies offer us pick 5 and we think pick 5 gives a 55% chance of a good player. You probably take pick 5.
If we believe Paddy is an 80% chance of being good then we keep him.

If he was a mid then I'd agree 100%.

But he is a specialist position player.

 

[VDS66]

Can you please provide the approved time frame for a rebuild please?




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Club promised a flag by 2020. The op is holding them to account. I would expect him to launch a class action against the club if we win one in 2021.

 

[Rors]

Yes because he performs at a high level when he plays in the AFL.

Look at his numbers in those years... Definitely not AFL standard but they backed him in

 

[Diehard Saint]

I'm quite astounded that there is a thread devoted to this topic.
Discussion surrounding whether concussion will ultimately curtail Paddy's career is one thing but debating his future worth after he's played around 15 full games, uninjured, is surely ridiculous.

 

[Sir Skid]

Shouldn't this just go in the Trade and Free Agent Thread? Half the time it's just rubbish there anyway, it's only going to get worse if we're moving actual discussion points into separate threads.

And what happened to the supposed "play the point, not the man" stuff that everyone was going up in arms about a couple of months ago. Sure Defacto's opening post may not be a suggestion everyone likes but he put it forward fairly respectfully. Either respond with the same level of respect or don't respond at all. Forum is going to the dogs thanks to posters like you guys. Don't let the haters get to you StCicatriz

To answer your question, I don't believe we should trade him yet but the combination of concussions, diabetes and lack of tank is getting to a very concerning level. Hopefully he turns it around

Well said Masquerade !

Please raise your points addressing the issue not playing the man and in line with the board rules.

 

[Sir Skid]

Every time we have a new item thread my heart sinks as they seem to always be designed to embarrass ourselves.

Whether it's scab rippers like this one, or the big noting ourselves ones that signal disaster - hats off to the physios, we can make the 8, this is the year.....

There isn't a sainter out there who didn't have some negative thoughts on paddys future when they heard of his Ko today but why do we have to stick the knife in on here. Let's not make robbo's job easier for him eh.

I think some posters care more about their faceless personas on this forum than they do about the club

^^ THIS ^^

 

[sunny3193]

i can assure you that what you said is not the case. i already know i am not well liked on here because people find me overly critical, so if i did care about being liked on here why would i go about it by making another post that can be seen as being overly negative?

I don't care if you're liked on here or not.
But you could have had the good sense NOT to start a thread titled "Should we trade Paddy McCartin?" only minutes after he had suffered another concussion.

 

[35Saints35]

Let's break it down, shall we...

Paddy is yet to show either way if he will make it or not.

Why the hell would you trade him now, only to see him go one and star for another club? That to me me is more negligent than picking him ahead of Tracca.

With Stanley, he was a known quantity when we moved him on.

Paddy should be traded if and only if he does not improve into a best 22 player over the next year and a bit.

Club is and has invested a lot into him to just cut him when he may take the next step.

Sure, you can argue that if a great offer came along, but what if that top 10 pick turns out a bust?

Pretty obvious why would should trade him really . The odds would be 20% he makes it 80% he doesnt . He goes while he has POTENTIAL . With out that he has no value . Refer to my constant example in point --- JUSTIN KOSCHITKZE. We will get stuck paying a contract for paddy and some point when he is deemed medically unfit to continue . Who knows could be as early as next year

 

[VDS66]

Pretty obvious why would should trade him really . The odds would be 20% he makes it 80% he doesnt . He goes while he has POTENTIAL . With out that he has no value . Refer to my constant example in point --- JUSTIN KOSCHITKZE. We will get stuck paying a contract for paddy and some point when he is deemed medically unfit to continue . Who knows could be as early as next year

Not arguing that at all. He is contracted until end of next year? We will know by then.

If he is a bust, we won't get much regardless. Then again, there's always the Hawks.

Kosi was a different situation because he was incorrectly contracted at the wrong $$$.

Kosi is a hindsight lesson. Too early to call on Paddy.

I'll also add that if the club looks to trade their #1 player, do you honestly think that a club will offer top compo?

 

[35Saints35]

Not arguing that at all. He is contracted until end of next year? We will know by then.

If he is a bust, we won't get much regardless. Then again, there's always the Hawks.

Kosi was a different situation because he was incorrectly contracted at the wrong $$$.

Kosi is a hindsight lesson. Too early to call on Paddy.

All true , appreciate the measured reply . But that scenario should be at the forefront of the decision makers mind

 

[Crusty Undies]

Yes, in his first season he played in the SANFL & im pretty sure he's never played reserves since

I'm pretty sure he played SANFL for most of his second season too. Apples and Oranges though.

 

[VDS66]

All true , appreciate the measured reply . But that scenario should be at the forefront of the decision makers mind

Lappin and Smith are two trade outs that still haunt me...

 

[gringo2011]

We have him now, we need to just keep persisting until he pays off. I'm not demanding him to be played when he doesn't deserve games though. He was playing well at VFL level and needs to just keep that up and soon doors will open up for him.

 

[Crusty Undies]

We have him now, we need to just keep persisting until he pays off. I'm not demanding him to be played when he doesn't deserve games though. He was playing well at VFL level and needs to just keep that up and soon doors will open up for him.

Don't see him ever making it though. Even if he didn't have his myriad of physical flaws the game is just moving past the traditional goal square key forward and he'll soon be obsolete. Cameron, Buddy, Tex and others that run all day and roam upfield are the new template. I think the Tomahawk will be the last genuine stay at home forward we see for a while.

 

[Rors]

I'm pretty sure he played SANFL for most of his second season too. Apples and Oranges though.

I posted his stats above for 2nd & 3rd seasons- 21 games & 19 games