Religion Show me the Christian rulebook...

[My name geoff]

Split from: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/terror-attack-in-london.1160444/

And my mate's staunchly Catholic mum expects her whole family to observe Lent but laughed when we were teenagers and she found condoms in his pocket, telling him to keep them in his wallet.

This crazy world! However will we make sense of it??


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Show me the Christian rule book..

 

[Chief]

Show me the Christian rule book..

Are you saying is that the Koran, Hadith etc are very prescriptive while the Bible is much more open to interpretation?

Please just say what you mean so we don't have to guess. Define your argument is definite terms then the discussion can be productive.

 

[Gough]

Show me the Christian rule book..

There's plenty in the Christian rule book that believers quite rightly choose now to ignore, it would seem a bit of a stretch to say that there isn't a single Muslim out there who is unable to view their theism through a contemporary lens.

 

[My name geoff]

Are you saying is that the Koran, Hadith etc are very prescriptive while the Bible is much more open to interpretation?

Please just say what you mean so we don't have to guess. Define your argument is definite terms then the discussion can be productive.

I will break it down in an easily digestible 'bottom line' kind of way;

Quran Literal word of god. Perfectly preserved instruction book with rules to be followed without resistance, restricting the freedom to use the human intellect to the furthest extent possible

Hadith Sayings and actions of Prophet Mohammed utilised to add context to rulings from within the Quran. Also to describe the life of the man dubbed 'the
perfect example for all mankind' There are Hadiths which are considered authentic, and some not so..hence room for interpretation.

Tasfir An exegesis on both the Hadith and Quran

Bible Sayings and actions of Jesus as recorded by the people who knew Jesus, full of parable to illustrate universal and religious truths
There are Bible passages which are considered more relevant than others..hence room for interpretation.

The Christian religion does not have an equivalent to the Quran, so when people like yourself try to compare the Bible it shows a general lack of understanding. This lack of understanding prevents people like yourself from being able to asses why Islam and its interpretation of the Quran is not comparable with the Christian interpretation of the Bible.

 

[My name geoff]

There's plenty in the Christian rule book that believers quite rightly choose now to ignore, it would seem a bit of a stretch to say that there isn't a single Muslim out there who is unable to view their theism through a contemporary lens.

Quran Literal word of god. Perfectly preserved instruction book with rules to be followed without resistance, restricting the freedom to use the human intellect to the furthest extent possible

Hadith Sayings and actions of Prophet Mohammed utilised to add context to rulings from within the Quran. Also to describe the life of the man dubbed 'the
perfect example for all mankind' There are Hadiths which are considered authentic, and some not so..hence room for interpretation.

Tasfir An exegesis on both the Hadith and Quran

Bible Sayings and actions of Jesus as recorded by the people who knew Jesus, full of parable to illustrate universal and religious truths
There are Bible passages which are considered more relevant than others..hence room for interpretation.

The Christian religion does not have an equivalent to the Quran, so when people like yourself try to compare the Bible it shows a general lack of understanding. This lack of understanding prevents people like yourself from being able to asses why Islam and its interpretation of the Quran is not comparable with the Christian interpretation of the Bible.

 

[Chief]

Quran Literal word of god. Perfectly preserved instruction book with rules to be followed without resistance, restricting the freedom to use the human intellect to the furthest extent possible

Hadith Sayings and actions of Prophet Mohammed utilised to add context to rulings from within the Quran. Also to describe the life of the man dubbed 'the
perfect example for all mankind' There are Hadiths which are considered authentic, and some not so..hence room for interpretation.

Tasfir An exegesis on both the Hadith and Quran

Bible Sayings and actions of Jesus as recorded by the people who knew Jesus, full of parable to illustrate universal and religious truths
There are Bible passages which are considered more relevant than others..hence room for interpretation.

The Christian religion does not have an equivalent to the Quran, so when people like yourself try to compare the Bible it shows a general lack of understanding. This lack of understanding prevents people like yourself from being able to asses why Islam and its interpretation of the Quran is not comparable with the Christian interpretation of the Bible.

You seem to be saying the Bible is, by its nature, unable to be taken literally. That it is not in any way divine revelation, but just stories people wrote down at the time.

 

[Gough]

Quran Literal word of god. Perfectly preserved instruction book with rules to be followed without resistance, restricting the freedom to use the human intellect to the furthest extent possible

Hadith Sayings and actions of Prophet Mohammed utilised to add context to rulings from within the Quran. Also to describe the life of the man dubbed 'the
perfect example for all mankind' There are Hadiths which are considered authentic, and some not so..hence room for interpretation.

Tasfir An exegesis on both the Hadith and Quran

Bible Sayings and actions of Jesus as recorded by the people who knew Jesus, full of parable to illustrate universal and religious truths
There are Bible passages which are considered more relevant than others..hence room for interpretation.

The Christian religion does not have an equivalent to the Quran, so when people like yourself try to compare the Bible it shows a general lack of understanding. This lack of understanding prevents people like yourself from being able to asses why Islam and its interpretation of the Quran is not comparable with the Christian interpretation of the Bible.

I suspect that there are a fair few Muslims out there who think that killing apostates is every bit as a foolish, and dated as allowing people to get off scot free if they kill their wife, or servant by their own hand.

 

[My name geoff]

You seem to be saying the Bible is, by its nature, unable to be taken literally. That it is not in any way divine revelation, but just stories people wrote down at the time.

What I am saying is that the Bible is comparable with the Hadith collection not the Quran.

 

[Chief]

What I am saying is that the Bible is comparable with the Hadith collection not the Quran.

And yet there are people who treat the Bible as the literal word of God, as an infallible guide to life, as full of unbreakable laws.

Why do they do that?

 

[My name geoff]

I suspect that there are a fair few Muslims out there who think that killing apostates is every bit as a foolish, and dated as allowing people to get off scot free if they kill their wife, or servant by their own hand.

I'm sure a fair few Muslims out there say they don't agree with it but secretly do also

 

[My name geoff]

And yet there are people who treat the Bible as the literal word of God, as an infallible guide to life, as full of unbreakable laws.

Why do they do that?

There are many Muslims that view parts of Hadith as the literal word of god and view Hadith as the infallible guide to life full of unbreakable laws

 

[Scotland]

There are many Muslims that view parts of Hadith as the literal word of god and view Hadith as the infallible guide to life full of unbreakable laws

These people are dickheads.

 

[Scotland]

You seem to be saying the Bible is, by its nature, unable to be taken literally. That it is not in any way divine revelation, but just stories people wrote down at the time.

This is how sensible people would view it.

 

[My name geoff]

These people are dickheads.

Congratulations, you just called the majority of Muslims dickheads

 

[cannot]

catholics are nutters

 

[Richard Pryor]

There's plenty in the Christian rule book that believers quite rightly choose now to ignore, it would seem a bit of a stretch to say that there isn't a single Muslim out there who is unable to view their theism through a contemporary lens.

While there is obviously a significant proportion of Christians and Muslims who are ignorant of, or simply disagree with, with the theology of their religion, I think these moderates can pretty much be lumped in with secular demographics. Beyond making the important clarification that one can't paint groups with one brush, I think that religious people who fundamentally differ in their beliefs from any prominent sects can largely be ignored when discussing the nature of religions.

On the topic of the thread, I don't think the Bible is as vague or open-ended as the My name geoff is suggesting, as it clearly contains religious laws. However Christianity in the West has largely tried to de-emphasise theocratic themes, seeing as religion has been steadily losing its political influence since the Middle Ages. Islam in the East has had no reason to try and divorce its spiritual nature from its legal nature, because Islam has never really lost it's place in governance since the time of Muhammad. Perhaps because Muhammad Himself was a political figure who's political power was impossible to divorce from His divine nature.

Christianities place in laws and politics has been questioned and minimized throughout the 1800's on a scale that I don't think Islam has been in the Middle East (with the notable exceptions of guys like Ataturk and the Shah of Iran in the 70's who wanted to de-emphasise Islams place in governance, it's interesting to think of how different the Middle East would have been if Shah Pahlavi was able to push Iran towards secularism instead of the country turning into a theocracy. Of course, would've probably been easier for him if he wasn't a fairly dictatorial dude.)

 

[Scotland]

Congratulations, you just called the majority of Muslims dickheads

You say that like it should bother me.

The majority of all religious people are dickheads.

 

[My name geoff]

While there is obviously a significant proportion of Christians and Muslims who are ignorant of, or simply disagree with, with the theology of their religion, I think these moderates can pretty much be lumped in with secular demographics. Beyond making the important clarification that one can't paint groups with one brush, I think that religious people who fundamentally differ in their beliefs from any prominent sects can largely be ignored when discussing the nature of religions.

On the topic of the thread, I don't think the Bible is as vague or open-ended as the My name geoff is suggesting, as it clearly contains religious laws. However Christianity in the West has largely tried to de-emphasise theocratic themes, seeing as religion has been steadily losing its political influence since the Middle Ages. Islam in the East has had no reason to try and divorce its spiritual nature from its legal nature, because Islam has never really lost it's place in governance since the time of Muhammad. Perhaps because Muhammad Himself was a political figure who's political power was impossible to divorce from His divine nature.

Christianities place in laws and politics has been questioned and minimized throughout the 1800's on a scale that I don't think Islam has been in the Middle East (with the notable exceptions of guys like Ataturk and the Shah of Iran in the 70's who wanted to de-emphasise Islams place in governance, it's interesting to think of how different the Middle East would have been if Shah Pahlavi was able to push Iran towards secularism instead of the country turning into a theocracy. Of course, would've probably been easier for him if he wasn't a fairly dictatorial dude.)

I agree, the bible does contain religious law, but it is the equivalent to the Hadith which is the point I am making.

Just like with the Hadith, there is no such Book revealed from god called the Bible. Its a collection of stories from various authors over a long period of time, which were collected and canonized over a 3000 year period and as such is open to a very wide range of interpretation.

The Quran is a complete book which was sent down from heaven and written down by scribes in its exact form over a 23 year period. A book which is to be followed to the letter as prescribed by Allah himself.

To compare the interpretation of the Bible with the interpretation of the Quran is apples and oranges

 

[Richard Pryor]

I agree, the bible does contain religious law, but it is the equivalent to the Hadith which is the point I am making.

Just like with the Hadith, there is no such Book revealed from god called the Bible. Its a collection of stories from various authors over a long period of time, which were collected and canonized over a 3000 year period and as such is open to a very wide range of interpretation.

The Quran is a complete book which was sent down from heaven and written down by scribes in its exact form over a 23 year period. A book which is to be followed to the letter as prescribed by Allah himself.

To compare the interpretation of the Bible with the interpretation of the Quran is apples and oranges

The majority of Islamic laws either come from, or are clarified by, the Hadith though.

 

[Admiral Byng]

What I am saying is that the Bible is comparable with the Hadith collection not the Quran.

Only the Gospels. The Old Testament and much of the rest of the New Testament (the bits attributed to St Paul the Apostle) are probably more like Quran.

 

[HairyO]

What I am saying is that the Bible is comparable with the Hadith collection not the Quran.

You also need to separate the Bible in to the Old and the New Testements. They teach 2 entirely different lessons.

 

[My name geoff]

The majority of Islamic laws either come from, or are clarified by, the Hadith though.

Which is open to a level of interpretation.. much like the Bible

 

[My name geoff]

Only the Gospels. The Old Testament and much of the rest of the New Testament (the bits attributed to St Paul the Apostle) are probably more like Quran.

I'm referring to the bible in totality. There are parts of the Hadith, namely the Qudsi, which are also considered the direct quotes of Allah.

 

[My name geoff]

You also need to separate the Bible in to the Old and the New Testements. They teach 2 entirely different lessons.

Not denying that, the bible progresses from the OT to the NT and needs to be interpreted accordingly.

 

[Present Not Past]

Split from: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/terror-attack-in-london.1160444/



Show me the Christian rule book..

Christians don't need to follow prescriptive rules to be Christians - they require faith though.