Autopsy Showdown 47 Post Mortem - Port Federers v Adelaide Tomics

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feenix67

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 17, 2004
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I'm not sure who is in charge of the podcast, but would it be possible to try and reach out to a sports psychologist, or one who has been involved in the AFL previously, and get them on for an interview to discuss events that lead to a team checking out mentally and what steps are taken to get the players (or the club as a whole) back on track?

Understandably people aren't going to want to burn bridges, but I reckon we all have suspicions as to why our team has had issues mentally over many, many years. It'd be nice to throw those questions at someone with more than a degree from BigFooty University.
Maybe I should reach out to Amon Wolfe ;)
 

CrowBloke

Premiership Player
May 14, 2017
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One amazing, unexpected piece of brilliance, followed by a total waste of an easy opportunity he should nail and then the opposition make us pay.
This!
Captain's Goal Opportunity, was key, a turning point.
Looks like some oppo teams seize on misses like that and fire up against us, even if only to make it a turnaround miss/goal. PA went on a spree after that. At one stage we were 14 down. I went into the kitchen to get a snack and drink; when I came back we were 32 down! :mad::mad: :sob:
 

jenny61_99

Premium Platinum
Feb 22, 2006
51,251
40,175
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Adelaide
I'm not sure who is in charge of the podcast, but would it be possible to try and reach out to a sports psychologist, or one who has been involved in the AFL previously, and get them on for an interview to discuss events that lead to a team checking out mentally and what steps are taken to get the players (or the club as a whole) back on track?

Understandably people aren't going to want to burn bridges, but I reckon we all have suspicions as to why our team has had issues mentally over many, many years. It'd be nice to throw those questions at someone with more than a degree from BigFooty University.
I like this idea. Obviously hard for someone on the outer to be able to answer though.
 

Golumless

I'm kind of a big deal on the east side
Jul 12, 2013
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Do you mean in the 22 from last night ... Or the whole squad?

We have some good athletic prospects on our list, we seem to apply the same pathway to all of them. Doedee is the example that is sighted. Some players won't thrive under that development route.

Our selectors have shown they have one way. Sure they show signs of change, but when the heat is on ... They revert to form.

Under load, strongest habit wins.

If we don't reward the players in the seconds for their efforts ... We are dead in the water.

Stengle
Fogarty
Himmelberg
Jones
McHenry
Davis
Wilson

I wouldn't hold my breath with the current selection committee.

Sent using Tapatalk App on Android.
We don't though. We have two very distinct pathways.

Pathway 1) For a prospect we're thinking are a potential A grader and aren't blocked lineup wise (i.e. Fogarty situation). We tend to give a small taster season 1, then give a spot to them season 2 without any genuine pressure for selection unless they stink it up for a long time. McGovern, Milera, Gallucci (and soon Jones) have been under this pathway as examples, and McHenry will probably also get this treatment soon (seeing he's borderline). These ones tend to fill that half forward spots as we've sacrificed the position for long term development.

Pathway 2) For a middling prospect, or are blocked lineup wise we tend to sit them in the SANFL until an opportunity arises, and how they handle that dictates if they make it or not. People that have been under this style have been Doedee (blocked by Lever), Poholke (both), Davis, Fogarty (blocked by Tex, and if we're actually willing to do our job, Lynch), Himmelberg (though if we're smart, we move Himmelberg to pathway 1 after this year as we should get rid of Jenkins) etc.

Of course, someone in pathway 2 could find themselves into dead man walking territory, either by being judged as not good enough, or not developing enough with preseasons under their belts. Wilson, and Hunter would be the current examples here.

Like everything, where you sit on the depth chart is the only thing that matters here. You're given a very long leash in the AFL side under pathway 1 as we've indicated that you are super important long term, you have to be pretty much fighting for survival from the get go with pathway 2 as you are disposable from the get go.
 
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Dudersaurus

Team Captain
Oct 7, 2018
314
486
AFL Club
Adelaide
Yeah mate. Ok you don't know what the original point was and thus you have it all wrong, so why are you bothering to make any sort of comment ? Im not gonna bother explaining the realities of taking his kick at the mark and being unable to play on. Nice little picture though. Kinda exotic and manly. Give me a break.
Golly, bit OTT maybe?

To cover off some of your bits - the initial query related to why did he go so far back: he could not run around to open the angle, which is what he would have done, probably from closer in if still during play. To get any curve on a snap or banana, you usually need some distance. You won't get meaningful curve in 5m. That would be why he went further back.

The point to which I was responding was from later comments regarding the call to play on, immediately ending the quarter with no score. I made the point that the kick didn't score anyway, so that call to play on didn't affect anything. If you can't grasp that disallowing a non-scoring kick didn't have a great effect on the outcome of the game, I'm not sure I can explain it any better.

Regarding the profile pic, yeah, I'd like to say it is a self-portrait, but actually from a TV show that is kinda awesome. I'm sure you do indeed look like an amorphous grey blob though. Weird, subtly homophobic, comment to make when you haven't worked out how to use a computer to change your own.
 

Twist_of_Lemon

Club Legend
Sep 6, 2008
1,433
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AFL Club
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I like this idea. Obviously hard for someone on the outer to be able to answer though.
The loss of Phil Walsh is the only unique thing to our club that I can think of. Beyond that, I think the questions you could put forward to a sports psychologist would be general enough to cover issues that almost any club would have had to deal with at some point.

As an example, just like Port in 2007, I think a lot of us have had the belief that the 2017 grand final has had some impact on our players since then. It'd be interesting to hear from someone in the business how a team goes about moving past the failure and bounce back beyond just gutting the entire playing list and coaching panel and starting from scratch as a nuclear solution.

The likes of West Coast, Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney have all displayed the ability to bounce back and capture a flag. They haven't all taken the same route either. Naturally it is multi-faceted, but I'd be very interested to hear what the psychological avenues are to assist a team that has had to overcome failure on the way to winning a flag without spending years in the wilderness between.
 

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Golumless

I'm kind of a big deal on the east side
Jul 12, 2013
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Did we go through a heavy training load during the bye break?
I doubt it. Same thing happened against West Coast.

We're going with a contested slugfest, or nothing strategy, which has a lifespan of about half a season.
 

DJ75

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 4, 2004
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I think I can sum up our club tradition easily.

Option 1: Pay Douglas $400k, pay Mackay $400k. Play both players for their experience and the stability they provide.
Option 2: Pay C Cameron $600k. With no Douglas and Mackay on the list, be forced to play one of your recruits (say Jones).

As a club we will always opt for Option 1. Consistently average is preferred over players with less consistency but a higher ceiling.

There in is why we fail.
 

Mike Smyth

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 8, 2012
14,748
17,773
AFL Club
Adelaide
The loss of Phil Walsh is the only unique thing to our club that I can think of. Beyond that, I think the questions you could put forward to a sports psychologist would be general enough to cover issues that almost any club would have had to deal with at some point.

As an example, just like Port in 2007, I think a lot of us have had the belief that the 2017 grand final has had some impact on our players since then. It'd be interesting to hear from someone in the business how a team goes about moving past the failure and bounce back beyond just gutting the entire playing list and coaching panel and starting from scratch as a nuclear solution.

The likes of West Coast, Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney have all displayed the ability to bounce back and capture a flag. They haven't all taken the same route either. Naturally it is multi-faceted, but I'd be very interested to hear what the psychological avenues are to assist a team that has had to overcome failure on the way to winning a flag without spending years in the wilderness between.
Wasn't it a psychologists idea to do the power stance in the GF. No thanks.
 

SugarShane

C6 H12 O6
Sep 9, 2007
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The likes of West Coast, Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney have all displayed the ability to bounce back and capture a flag. They haven't all taken the same route either. Naturally it is multi-faceted, but I'd be very interested to hear what the psychological avenues are to assist a team that has had to overcome failure on the way to winning a flag without spending years in the wilderness between.
With the exception of West Coast, all of those groups won their first shot at it before suffering a loss. Teams that blow their first crack rarely come back and jag one.
 

GreyCrow

Hall of Famer
Mar 21, 2016
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I think I can sum up our club tradition easily.

Option 1: Pay Douglas $400k, pay Mackay $400k. Play both players for their experience and the stability they provide.
Option 2: Pay C Cameron $600k. With no Douglas and Mackay on the list, be forced to play one of your recruits (say Jones).

As a club we will always opt for Option 1. Consistently average is preferred over players with less consistency but a higher ceiling.

There in is why we fail.
Because consistently average keeps us in the 8
 

Twist_of_Lemon

Club Legend
Sep 6, 2008
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With the exception of West Coast, all of those groups won their first shot at it before suffering a loss. Teams that blow their first crack rarely come back and jag one.
For sure. I'd still say that Geelong had to deal with losing what they were expected to win along the way to their flag-every-2-years run. All of those teams had to deal with their own situations and all done via different routes. Other teams jag a flag and then just implode. How does one team manage to keep the hunger even after winning a flag they've aimed for their whole career while others just seem to never regain the hunger after the one?

I'd just like to see what someone who is smarter than me has to say with regards to questions we would have about our own club's issues over the years. As I admitted, its multi-faceted as to how a team reaches that level of success, let alone sustaining it, but having a professional's insight into one area like that in a long-form discussion would interest me.
 

Golumless

I'm kind of a big deal on the east side
Jul 12, 2013
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I think I can sum up our club tradition easily.

Option 1: Pay Douglas $400k, pay Mackay $400k. Play both players for their experience and the stability they provide.
Option 2: Pay C Cameron $600k. With no Douglas and Mackay on the list, be forced to play one of your recruits (say Jones).

As a club we will always opt for Option 1. Consistently average is preferred over players with less consistency but a higher ceiling.

There in is why we fail.
Ignoring that we didn't make a choice of Douglas + Mackay over Cameron, both are terrible options to be fair (outside of playing recruits). The Cameron we had is not worth $600k, hell even the Cameron now isn't worth $600k unless you had a plan to turn him into an outside midfielder with maybe the occasional rest as a small forward (then you're justified to take that risk).

Small forwards are a position you eek out the best performance you can for as cheap as you can, especially if they're main selling point is defensive work (which was Cameron here). You do not want a lot of cap space locked there because no matter how good that small forward is, you're doing more damage to your squad by having him on a decently sized contract then not having him.
 
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Ravenous Crow

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Mar 18, 2011
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Ignoring that we didn't make a choice of Douglas + Mackay over Cameron, both are terrible options to be fair (outside of playing recruits). The Cameron we had is not worth $600k, hell even the Cameron now isn't worth $600k unless you had a plan to turn him into an outside midfielder with maybe the occasional rest as a small forward (then you're justified to take that risk).

Small forwards are a position you eek out the best performance you can for as cheap as you can, especially if they're main selling point is defensive work (which was Cameron here). You do not want a lot of cap space locked there because no matter how good that small forward is, you're doing more damage to your squad by having him on a decently sized contract then not having him.
Well most years I would agree but it seems like with how far up the ground tall forwards push up now, if you intercept the ball in your back line the small forward often becomes the deepest target on the counterattack. We look like complete morons lacking any forward structure when we bomb the ball long to Murphy one on one but realistically Brisbane do the exact same thing with Cameron and it's an absolute ******* nightmare for the opposing coach.
 

Golumless

I'm kind of a big deal on the east side
Jul 12, 2013
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Well most years I would agree but it seems like with how far up the ground tall forwards push up now, if you intercept the ball in your back line the small forward often becomes the deepest target on the counterattack. We look like complete morons lacking any forward structure when we bomb the ball long to Murphy one on one but realistically Brisbane do the exact same thing with Cameron and it's an absolute ******* nightmare for the opposing coach.
It genuinely amazes me that we don't leave a Jenkins/Himmelberg as a deeper option like that. You'd be forcing a defense to stretch and guard more space, as well as having an outlet kick on a counter attack which for the price of sacrificing one potential option in the majority of scenarios would be a good trade off (seeing more space to guard would nullify a loose defender). Geelong stuffed up Clarskon a long while ago by using Dangerfield as a permanent deep forward as an example.
 

Big Gazoongas

Premiership Player
May 18, 2008
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We just don’t do it for some reason.

They had SPP playing a hard tag on Sloane and as usual:

1. Sloane can’t cope with it;
2. No one helps him with blocking ( and I watched that closely - zero support)
3. When Sloane is tagged our mids are rudderless.

Been going on since the GF
We don't do it because our mantra is "we must get better at it" and therefore continue with the same stuff until we hit Nirvana.

I would even bet that the club doesn't watch any games on the opposition, backing itself in for our game style/plan to be better......and given that we have been easily dismantled time and time again with no reaction or answer serves as some evidence.

I told you Pete after the Cats game that we have these periods were we get scored against heavily with no response....it happens time and time again and it was embarrassing yesterday.

I've had enough of a coaching group out of ideas and a head coach that has implemented such a garbage game plan.

I now want Pyke out, unfortunately the problem runs deeper and higher at the AFC.
 

Mike Smyth

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 8, 2012
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When you are so confident in your own game plan who cares what the opposition are doing. PYKE is so fixed in his strategy/ the system he can't even notice the serious individual flaws in his players. Ie Douglas.
 
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