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I'm surprised most think Goodwin should stay in the team. I think he has been in poor form for over a month now & has little influence on the game. Even in the 1 game he got plenty of the ball, his disposal was atrocious. Looks like the back injury is playing up & IMO he should be rested to get it right.

Hate playing injured players. Griff should not have played either as did him no favours & even has some idiots on this board thinking he no longer has talent. Suggest some of you rewatch some earlier games in the season to remind you that he is a genuine talent.

Hope we play 22 fit players this weekend.

Forgot about Mackay, but yeah, he should come back in too.
 
Ozzie said:
For goodness sake watch the bloody game before yapping.
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I've seen the game. Sorry for not being impressed with Griffins 2 possession and no marks performance. As for Moran ive seem him play at Westies as well and while he hasnt set the world on fire, he certaintly couldnt do much worse than what Griffin is doing. So I suggest maybe you re-watch the game.
 
Kane McGoodwin said:
I'm surprised most think Goodwin should stay in the team. I think he has been in poor form for over a month now & has little influence on the game. Even in the 1 game he got plenty of the ball, his disposal was atrocious. Looks like the back injury is playing up & IMO he should be rested to get it right.

Hate playing injured players. Griff should not have played either as did him no favours & even has some idiots on this board thinking he no longer has talent. Suggest some of you rewatch some earlier games in the season to remind you that he is a genuine talent.

Hope we play 22 fit players this weekend.

Forgot about Mackay, but yeah, he should come back in too.
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he has to be playing injured. If not, he is giving Toni McGuiness a run for the title of least influential/inspiring AFC captain.
 
Let's be fair to Griffin. His first 8 games were very good until he copped that hip injury.

The club has done him no favours by playing him when he's clearly not able to perform at his best.

He's going to be a very good ruckman in time with a bit more meat on him and when fully fit.

If he's not right, then he shouldn't be playing - we already have had too many players doing that this season.
 

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macca23 said:
Let's be fair to Griffin. His first 8 games were very good until he copped that hip injury.

The club has done him no favours by playing him when he's clearly not able to perform at his best.

He's going to be a very good ruckman in time with a bit more meat on him and when fully fit.

If he's not right, then he shouldn't be playing - we already have had too many players doing that this season.
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This is 2008 macca, not 2005.
 
macca23 said:
Let's be fair to Griffin. His first 8 games were very good until he copped that hip injury.

The club has done him no favours by playing him when he's clearly not able to perform at his best.

He's going to be a very good ruckman in time with a bit more meat on him and when fully fit.

If he's not right, then he shouldn't be playing - we already have had too many players doing that this season.
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Spot on Mac. Its amazing the lack of loyalty some on this board show our youngsters - even more amazing, the really promising ones. It doesn't take a genius to see he's yet another Crows player who is playing injured - that hard training programme has been a revelation.:rolleyes::thumbsd:
 
Drummond said:
I'm going to leave that one with you to figure out. Didn't think it was too much of a brain bender but perhaps I was wrong. Or maybe someone's in denial.
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I'm not going to even bother to play childish games, Drummond.

If you've got something to say, then say it, or just don't bother doing anything at all.

As for being in denial, why should I be?? On the other hand


Meesen


Campbell


Now THAT's what I call denial. :D
 
macca23 said:
I'm not going to even bother to play childish games, Drummond.

If you've got something to say, then say it, or just don't bother doing anything at all.
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Absolutely spot on and certainly so in an internet forum.

Back to topic.

You can't drop the captain from the side even if he is playing crappy. Its up to the captain to dig deep and show some inspiration and what better week than Showdown to do it.

Out : Porps, Burton, Campbell (omit - the kid is not up to it), Griffen (if injured)

In : Mackay (for Porps), Jericho (for McLeod), McGregor/Walker (for Griffen) and McLeod (if fit and for Campbell otherwise Campbell gets one more chance).

Lets not hit the panic button, 6-7 changes does a lot more damage to team dynamics!
 
macca23 said:
I'm not going to even bother to play childish games, Drummond.

If you've got something to say, then say it, or just don't bother doing anything at all.

As for being in denial, why should I be?? On the other hand


Meesen


Campbell


Now THAT's what I call denial. :D
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Childish games? Look who's talking. :rolleyes:

Let’s look at the facts shall we?

Code: 
Griffin’s averages:

2007:

First 8 games (Rds 1-8): 8.4 possessions, 3.5 marks, 8.8 hit-outs per game. 

Last 8 games: 3.6 possessions, 1.4 marks, 7.9 hit-outs per game. 

2008:

First 8 games (Rds 1-8): 10.1 possessions, 3.3 marks, 20.5 hit-outs per game. 

Last 4 games: 3.5 possessions, 0.75 marks, 9.5 hit-outs per game.

What does this indicate? That as the season goes on he tires and at a rapid rate. His body which has been a concern ever since he arrived at the club is still a massive concern. He was a lightweight when he first arrived and he still is. The ruck is the most physical position on the ground and in order to compete week in, week out with the best and most physical ruckmen of the competition you need to have the sufficient strength that will enable you to play effectively. Quite simply at this point in time he’s a liability out there. There’s no doubting that he’s got a heap of potential but he won’t come even close to fulfilling that unless he adds at least another 10kg. Is that possible? Every year for the past 4 years we’ve been saying he needs to bulk up, hasn’t happened and probably never will, not to the extend where he can be relied upon to play out a full season at the level he is capable of playing when fully fit and firing.
 
All your stats have shown Drummond is that Griffin was coming along very nicely this year prior to getting his hip injury. :)

Yes, he still needs more weight and bulk - didn't I already say that?? :confused: - even though he has already put on between 10 and 12 kgs. Another 10 kg would do him nicely - agreed.

He's certainly showed me enough to date to think that he will be a good long-term ruckman for us.

Now I know you must have lost a lot of confidence in your judgement of ruckmen after your disastrous love affair with Meesen, but surely you can see that too. ;)
 
macca23 said:
All your stats have shown Drummond is that Griffin was coming along very nicely this year prior to getting his hip injury. :)

Yes, he still needs more weight and bulk - didn't I already say that?? :confused: - even though he has already put on between 10 and 12 kgs. Another 10 kg would do him nicely - agreed.

He's certainly showed me enough to date to think that he will be a good long-term ruckman for us.

Now I know you must have lost a lot of confidence in your judgement of ruckmen after your disastrous love affair with Meesen, but surely you can see that too. ;)
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It's getting quite ridiculous your obsession with Meesen! Go have a look at the thread I started about 7-10 days back about him on the Melbourne board, I gave a pretty frank assessment.

I know you rate Griffin in very high esteem, and feel he has All-Australian potential, but they don't hand out AA honours on the back of a good month of football. ;)
 

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The big question about Griffin is this: How much of his (lack of) recent performance is due to his hip injury - and how much is due to him "running out of steam" as he struggles to cope with the rigours of a full season of footy?

My money would be on injury causing his slow down. The drop off was just too dramatic/sudden to be accounted for by a slowly/steadily tiring body.
 
Vader said:
The big question about Griffin is this: How much of his (lack of) recent performance is due to his hip injury - and how much is due to him "running out of steam" as he struggles to cope with the rigours of a full season of footy?

My money would be on injury causing his slow down. The drop off was just too dramatic/sudden to be accounted for by a slowly/steadily tiring body.
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He came to the top of the goal square infront on the supporters group and I said 'Hang on Griffen is playing!!?'

I hadnt seen him all game.

He seemed to be very slow and couldnt catch up to the momentum of the game so in the end it was like we only had 1 fit men on the bench.
 
Porps_is_HOT_loz said:
He came to the top of the goal square infront on the supporters group and I said 'Hang on Griffen is playing!!?'

I hadnt seen him all game.

He seemed to be very slow and couldnt catch up to the momentum of the game so in the end it was like we only had 1 fit men on the bench.
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You must have missed him in the ruck then, was playing as the second ruckman to Maric, so would generally come onto the ground part way through a quarter.

In the last qtr he was thrown up forward.

He wasn't too bad around the ground, obvioulsy he ddin't gather that many disposals but a couple of times he was on his hands and knees after the ball. Thought his ruck work wasn't too bad either.
 
Crow*Girl said:
You must have missed him in the ruck then, was playing as the second ruckman to Maric, so would generally come onto the ground part way through a quarter.

In the last qtr he was thrown up forward.

He wasn't too bad around the ground, obvioulsy he ddin't gather that many disposals but a couple of times he was on his hands and knees after the ball. Thought his ruck work wasn't too bad either.
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I guess not!

I only saw Maric in the ruck...

Griffin is an awesome player must I say but he just hasnt been preforming atm.
 
I've been reading all the comments and there seems to be some very frail "supporters" out there.
Sure....make comments but WE stick by OUR team...win or lose.
" I won't be going" says one supporter....why? Are we THAT fickle ?
I would hate to be a player reading that.
Anyway.....i think we have to find a suitable replacement for Birdman to start with....and there are several options....Sellar, Moran, McGregor, Walker and Jericho.
Being a showdown, it maybe unwise to blood a young player in a game of this type. Jericho, and Moran maybe our best option although McGregor DID play in that last showdown....but unless someone has bought Kenny some racing boots....or fed him some agro juice.....hmmm.
Porplyzia....this guy is going to be missed, and who to fill his shoes....I would LOVE to see Johncock in a running role....but then we need someone to step into his shoes down back.
Of those who took the field on Saturday - compared to the last showdown...only McGregor, McLeod, McKay and Jericho are not there.
I think Jericho at least deserves another crack at a showdown. The rest is up to our coach......Good luck Neil.
 

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Not going to go this time. This will be the first showdown I have missed in the last 14.
 
Drummond - for so long you told us all, in your esteemed football wisdom, that ruckmen take far longer to develop and reach their potential than other players do. And now - after what, 25-odd games - you're willing to yap on about Griffin.

As you said so often about your boy Meesen - "give him some time, he's a young ruckman!"
 
pjcrows said:
Drummond - for so long you told us all, in your esteemed football wisdom, that ruckmen take far longer to develop and reach their potential than other players do. And now - after what, 25-odd games - you're willing to yap on about Griffin.

As you said so often about your boy Meesen - "give him some time, he's a young ruckman!"
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I genuinely believe Griffin has the potential to be a very good AFL ruckman. However it is essential that he adds the bulk required for this to happen. If it doesn’t we will continue to see him fade out each year as his body tires. So it’s not as though I don’t rate him and I want him gone, in fact it’s the opposite. It’s just disappointing seeing his potential go to waste because of his inability to add weight.
 
Drummond said:
I genuinely believe Griffin has the potential to be a very good AFL ruckman. However it is essential that he adds the bulk required for this to happen. If it doesn’t we will continue to see him fade out each year as his body tires. So it’s not as though I don’t rate him and I want him gone, in fact it’s the opposite. It’s just disappointing seeing his potential go to waste because of his inability to add weight.
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Maybe. I think it's a bit of a myth that you need to have a lot of weight to be a good ruckman, now or in the past. There is no set rule that says "you need to weigh this much or you won't get anywhere". I wouldn't say Dean Cox or Shaun Rehn - arguably the two best ruckman of the last 15 years - were heavy. Then again, weight is/was a strength for someone like Brendon Lade and Clark Keating when they dominated.

The last thing you want is demand a player puts on bulk and have it affect their agility, like Matthew Primus.
 

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