Siddle Petering Out?

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Despair said:
Siddle has really offered nothing. 130kph, straight up and down, he's lost the aggression he used to have, he's lost the pace he used to have. He was lucky to even have 5 wickets in the 2 tests, 2 of the 5 wickets he got bounced about 2 inches off the deck.... It honestly feels like you're just waiting for the batsman to do something stupid against Siddle.
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Siddle has never been that quick, i never really felt he has the weapons to bowl a guy out.

But as above i think the improvement of Lyon + Watson being available means that the workhorse isn't going to be as required.

Re: Watson i think we should just keep bowling him 10-15 overs a match. If he breaks down then he is out of the side until he is fit to bowl again.
 
KissKiss said:
Isn't Harris off for knee surgery after this test? It opens up a spot again in the side and I would not be surprised at all if Siddle gets that one. I'm not sure that the bowling attack is balanced enough for other types of pitches
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I don't think we play another test for like 6 months? Harris should be back by then depending on how his op goes.
 

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Belnakor said:
Siddle has never been that quick, i never really felt he has the weapons to bowl a guy out.

But as above i think the improvement of Lyon + Watson being available means that the workhorse isn't going to be as required.

Re: Watson i think we should just keep bowling him 10-15 overs a match. If he breaks down then he is out of the side until he is fit to bowl again.
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s**t reference here seeing as it is theroar.com.au but this was when Peter Siddle was hitting 150kph and swinging the ball - http://www.theroar.com.au/2011/12/10/siddle-the-new-white-lightning/

Yeah agreed about Lyon + Watson, if we can get them capable to bowl a decent load of overs, whilst maintaining the ability to strike breakthroughs whilst resting the real firepower, we'll have a complete attack.

Yep - agreed on Watto. This is the job that he needs to be performing. The bloke can bat okay - but the times of him getting a game based purely on his batting are numbered. If he bowls and stays fit, he stays in the team. If he doesnt we need to find a capable all-rounder (Faulkner/Henriques)
 
Agree with Watson, needs to be bowling 20 odd overs a match. Watson's not at his best at the moment though. Missing a yard as well, he's at his best when he's bowling 130-135km/h, that's when he's dangerous and getting bounce and that's when his reverse and cut becomes becomes dangerous. Unfortunately Watson lacks mental toughness and fitness which isn't a good combination. Needs to be fitter.
 
Belnakor said:
i'd say that was speed gun related. if you watch youtube.com/watch?v=lRRGy_EQqAA his hat trick he was bowling 136, then when he was super fired up he was bowling about 141.
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Perhaps it was, I can't say. Though my actual point was that he was actually beating batsmen (like the Prior/Broad balls of the hattrick) with pace and swing. Now it just feels like we're waiting for batsmen to make the error against Siddle as he is just bowling 130kmh straight up and down, no swing and no considerable seam movement.
 
Despair said:
Perhaps it was, I can't say. Though my actual point was that he was actually beating batsmen (like the Prior/Broad balls of the hattrick) with pace and swing. Now it just feels like we're waiting for batsmen to make the error against Siddle as he is just bowling 130kmh straight up and down, no swing and no considerable seam movement.
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Im pretty sure I saw him hit 150 a couple of times during the Ashes but I was surprised when he did it. I get that he has dropped a bit of pace to try and get a lot more accurate and play a role in the team. But if he were to pick it up slightly and use the odd effort ball that hit top pace I still think he could be a great part of the attack.

Medium to long term I do hope that guys like Patto, Starc, Cummins do go past him as he is probably one of the least talented of all our bowlers. But for the time being the role he plays and with the heart he shows on the field he IMO still has a big role to play
 
KissKiss said:
Im pretty sure I saw him hit 150 a couple of times during the Ashes but I was surprised when he did it. I get that he has dropped a bit of pace to try and get a lot more accurate and play a role in the team. But if he were to pick it up slightly and use the odd effort ball that hit top pace I still think he could be a great part of the attack.

Medium to long term I do hope that guys like Patto, Starc, Cummins do go past him as he is probably one of the least talented of all our bowlers. But for the time being the role he plays and with the heart he shows on the field he IMO still has a big role to play
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Yeah, I recall seeing it aswell. It was only for a short period but he was getting up there.

It's never a question of heart with Siddle as we all know he has it by the bucket-load.

But the thing that irritates me is when people say "oh but he's such a workhorse" and "you need him for times when Johnson doesnt fire". What's the point of having a specialist pace bowler as a "workhorse" who can put in long spells to reprieve Johnson & Harris? It is part-timers and spinners that are supposed to rest the genuine pace bowlers.
 
Siddle might never get back in the team if Patto hits form

Starc cummins and a few other young fasts bowlers with really high potential coming through who could easily pass him in the next 1-2 years
 
blaze036 said:
Siddle might never get back in the team if Patto hits form

Starc cummins and a few other young fasts bowlers with really high potential coming through who could easily pass him in the next 1-2 years
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Siddle will be back in the team for the UAE.
 
The Reaper said:
Siddle will be back in the team for the UAE.
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Yeah, if the selectors have any common sense with Harris missing.
Think we're going to be found out big time in the UAE. Of course it works both ways, we go to the middle east/subcontinent and get walloped, they come here and get walloped.
 

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Belnakor said:
i'd say that was speed gun related. if you watch youtube.com/watch?v=lRRGy_EQqAA his hat trick he was bowling 136, then when he was super fired up he was bowling about 141.
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Siddle was regularly 145km/h and has reached 150 on occasion. Please refer to the video I posted in the OP, not only is it good viewing watching him take South Africa apart but it's also a great example of what Siddle used to be capable of.

My conclusion, Siddle changed his diet a few years ago, since then his physique has gradually changed from a bigger stronger looking man to a lighter leaner looking man. There has been a direct correlation between his physical makeup/build and his bowling speeds which have also been tapering off. He's 29, usually a bowlers prime, he can get it right, Siddle in form is in our best team.

What else is strange is that he used to be a pretty handy bat. Hasn't made runs in a while either. Is this strength related too? Strength can give a batsman control and increased fitness can give a batsman better footwork and concentration.

P.S. His hatrick ball was 143km/h and he bowled high 130's to 145 that series though this was when his averages speeds just started to drop slightly for memory. The ball he bowled after his hatrick ball was 145.8 km/h.

This workhorse support role is the biggest excuse I've heard. He's always played the line and length, give nothing away role, it's just he did it with more energy (bounce, seam movement) and pace which meant he took regular wickets.

He hasn't dropped pace looking for accuracy!!! He's always had accuracy! He's dropped pace because he's lost about 10-15kg and the strength's gone.

Darren Lehmann and co haven't dropped him for no reason and aren't saying he needs to bowl faster for nothing. These guys know what they are talking about.
 
gbatman said:
What else is strange is that he used to be a pretty handy bat. Hasn't made runs in a while either. Is this strength related too? Strength can give a batsman control and increased fitness can give a batsman better footwork and concentration.
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his batting has definately dropped off a cliff. He used to be comfortably better than Harris
 
gbatman said:
My conclusion, Siddle changed his diet a few years ago, since then his physique has gradually changed from a bigger stronger looking man to a lighter leaner looking man. There has been a direct correlation between his physical makeup/build and his bowling speeds which have also been tapering off. He's 29, usually a bowlers prime, he can get it right, Siddle in form is in our best team.
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Can't like this post enough. He is essentially being dropped for being a vegan. I have nothing against vegans. It is his decision... there are protein sources for vegans but it is incredibly hard to build a strong physique whilst being a vegan. People said "oh look Siddle looks super fit now that he's a vegan".
Siddle was never fat. He probably had a couple of kg's of bodyfat that he could have dropped but behind that was some serious muscle that allowed him to bowl with much more pace.
 
Despair said:
Can't like this post enough. He is essentially being dropped for being a vegan. I have nothing against vegans. It is his decision... there are protein sources for vegans but it is incredibly hard to build a strong physique whilst being a vegan. People said "oh look Siddle looks super fit now that he's a vegan".
Siddle was never fat. He probably had a couple of kg's of bodyfat that he could have dropped but behind that was some serious muscle that allowed him to bowl with much more pace.
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The problem for Siddle is that he is only fairly new to being Vegan. He probably doesn't yet fully understand what he needs to be eating to gain as much protein as he can from his diet.

His Veganism has clearly helped with his longevity, stamina and recovery. But the problem is that when you first change to being Vegan it is hard to understand what you need to eat to maintain body weight. I personally lost a lot of weight as well until I realised what I actually needed to start eating more of. Since I have discovered these protein sources my weight is good again and I'm back to where I was before hand and doing very well.

Having said all that though I've still seen him bowl up around 140km on occasions still which suggests to me it is more of a conscious effort to bowl within himself rather than anything to do with his body.
 
Showbags said:
The problem for Siddle is that he is only fairly new to being Vegan. He probably doesn't yet fully understand what he needs to be eating to gain as much protein as he can from his diet.

His Veganism has clearly helped with his longevity, stamina and recovery. But the problem is that when you first change to being Vegan it is hard to understand what you need to eat to maintain body weight. I personally lost a lot of weight as well until I realised what I actually needed to start eating more of. Since I have discovered these protein sources my weight is good again and I'm back to where I was before hand and doing very well.

Having said all that though I've still seen him bowl up around 140km on occasions still which suggests to me it is more of a conscious effort to bowl within himself rather than anything to do with his body.
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Surely CA are capable of hiring someone who can figure out what he needs to eat for him?
 
Finished. Was never that great anyway.
 
The Reaper said:
Surely CA are capable of hiring someone who can figure out what he needs to eat for him?
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I'm suspicious about the twenty bananas a day he eats.

Nice source of nitrogen but very carb heavy.
 
I do think he was treated a bit harshly, but he wasn't bowling with quite the same control as before and he seemed incapable of reversing the ball in Port Elizabeth (he has bowled well in those conditions before, though).

I figure that he'll be back at some point.
 
Kram81 said:
Someone needs to covertly put some meat into the man's food.
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I'm happy to put my hand up and sneak chunks of steak into Siddle's tofu if I get permanent tenure batting at 3 and throwing down 15 overs of leggies in the Aussie side
 
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