Side vs Hawks

[Tomohawks]

Find the continued selection of Leigh Brown pretty staggering personally. Last year we had a real opportunity to pump games into our young talls and instead played Leigh Brown. This year we seem to be heading down the same path. Makes no sense to me.

As an outsider looking in I'd say the reason is pretty simple. He's playing for the next 2 years, not the next 10 for obvious reasons.

After getting Jolly and Ball it's pretty clear he thinks mature bodies bode well for a shot at a flag, hence playing Brown instead of the kids.

 

[lethalburns]

Why would you paste on your facebook that you want to trade clubs?

Can't be the sharpest tool.

 

[NatheM]

Not sure...if...serious...

I didn't word what I meant properly.
But I was serious.
Travis' only weakness is his set shots.
I believe this has been rectified finally.
Bucks gave him help, and it was clear his technique has change.
It's much more simple and compact.

He just needs more time in the forward 50.
He should be a true FF.
Medhurst and Lockyer should roam around HF, they are the best at setting up.

Medhurst can easily play the lead up to the wings role that Travis does.
But the difference is that Medhurst does something with his disposal, and if Travis sits in the forward 50 then there is always a contest for leon ect.. to crumb.

That's what I mean by he gave me confidence.
Confidence in that he should be our FF, and we don't need Jack or Dawes.
Unless they seriously put their case forward in the VFL.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

We created more than enough 'gettable' goal opportunities (against the flooding kings) to be 4 goals up on them by the 15 min mark of the 3rd, and if we had of hit some free targets that we missed, it would have been even more. The reason was poor skill execution which is more of a worry than anything else.

To be fair, it was a little from column "A" and a little from column "B". However column "A" is fairly easily controlled from the air-conditioned comfort of the selection table, column "B" is outside of the coaching staff's control once the ball is bounced. You've got to exert what influence you can over the controllable factors in the game.

Macaffer was promoted to the seniors on the back of performances I wouldn't say are any better than Dawes' or Anthony's.

This is true. His match in the VFL practice vs. Geelong was ordinary at best. I say this as someone who rates MacAffer and was happy for him to retain his spot in the side after the Saints game.

If we were able to kick 4 goals in the first half with the same structure why couldn't we do so in the second half?

Sure, but let's say this is true... are you happy with 8 goals in a game? Do you think this is a plan which will win matches against the best sides in the competition? Do you realise the Saints scored more goals than this in this fixture alone, even after the league's 2nd best CHF went down?

 

[Rusty Beam]

Not sure...if...serious...

Agreed.... I can never see Trav turning around his goal conversion rate... I think we need to accept this fact (that is not to say he won't try to improve).

Therefore IMO he should be playing up the ground, taking contested marks, pumping it forward.... The only catch... he can only hit up the square as he also doesn't have the passing ability to hit up a leading target....

Hence my point.... We need a decent large forward in the square for him to target and for the smalls to shark....

 

[NatheM]

Agreed.... I can never see Trav turning around his goal conversion rate... I think we need to accept this fact (that is not to say he won't try to improve).

Therefore IMO he should be playing up the ground, taking contested marks, pumping it forward.... The only catch... he can only hit up the square as he also doesn't have the passing ability to hit up a leading target....

Hence my point.... We need a decent large forward in the square for him to target and for the smalls to shark....

Completely disagree, if he was given time as a FF it would be impossible for him not to improve his conversion rate.

 

[lethalburns]

Cloke at FF would be a waste whether he can kick or not.

He has the motor and we should use it as we have been.

 

[mdc]

I didn't word what I meant properly.
But I was serious.
Travis' only weakness is his set shots.
I believe this has been rectified finally.

a) Travis' set shots are far from his only weakness.
b) He kicked 1 out of 4 on the weekend.
c) He has averaged 1/game for over a year now.

He played a better game on Friday night, but before saying that he's fixed what ails him, can we at least wait for him to break out and kick a bag of 2?

 

[Quicky]

I'm not as outraged by the selections as some people in here seem to be.

The inclusions of Shaw and Johnson means I think some thought has been given to breaking up the zone which really starts from taking the game on from the HBF.

I'm disappointed Dawes wasn't brought in for Brown. I think this probably means Brown will play FF ala the Doggies game. It also probably shows they rate Leroy ahead of Dawes.

I think the omission of O'Bree is the biggest thing to come from selection. I seriously can't remember this ever happening?? I never thought i'd see the day. It's a fair call based on last weeks performance.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

He's ahead of Josh, who in his new role as a forward has a season average of 2.33 marks and 0.33 goals per game.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

As an outsider looking in I'd say the reason is pretty simple. He's playing for the next 2 years, not the next 10 for obvious reasons.

After getting Jolly and Ball it's pretty clear he thinks mature bodies bode well for a shot at a flag, hence playing Brown instead of the kids.

Which would make perfect sense if Leigh Brown weren't shit.

 

[Bay Pie]

In any case, I'm reasonably happy with the team. The dropping of O'Bree will mean a lot more middle time for Pendlebury and Beams, which will immediately improve the side. Heath Shaw is obviously a big in as well.

More time in the middle for Pendles should be the bonus I'm hoping for.

I can see a late change though with BJ out and hopefully JMac in but more likely SOB in.

From all reports Dawes wasn't great last week but watching those 2 goals he kicked from 50 on 45 degree angles...we'd love that.

We just have to get games into Dawes. Travis, Dawes & JA played well on the limited occasions they played as our forward line last year. We need to settle them in. Perhaps not yet as JA appears under done but at some point we need to get games into these kids. Other clubs got games into worse players, and these players are now looking like they could become decent/good players after 40/50 games.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

From all reports Dawes wasn't great last week but watching those 2 goals he kicked from 50 on 45 degree angles...we'd love that.

We just have to get games into Dawes. Travis, Dawes & JA played well on the limited occasions they played as our forward line last year. We need to settle them in. Perhaps not yet as JA appears under done but at some point we need to get games into these kids. Other clubs got games into worse players, and these players are now looking like they could become decent/good players after 40/50 games.

Don't know which reports you were reading then. Even the official one from the club actually used the word "great" to describe his game!

 

[Heater39]

Great to see Johnno back in already, hopefully he plays. His run off half back is underrated. His run and carry + long kicking helps us play more direct footy. Same goes for Heater.

Jack simply has to get fitter imo. Watching the VFL on the weekend and his fitness looks very poor. He just about blows up after one lead.

Having said that, Jack and/or Dawes will hopefully play ANZAC day.

 

[Wooljay]

Jack will play ANZAC Day, perfect time for him to come back and prove his worth. That being said, we love to have the kids get up and star on AD, so maybe Dawes will come in, kick 7 and cop a medal

And then go the way of Mark McGough

 

[Rusty Beam]

Can't believe that people keep suggesting that players (i.e. Dawes and JA) need to kick a bagfull (what I'm assuming from everyone's rhetoric is 5-6+) in the VFL to demand selection in the seniors.

The VFL isn't exactly like playing the CFL's. There are a fair number of quality backs in the VFL and even more decent tactics to centre on negating AFL listed players....

 

[loki04]

I got a feeling despite the selections we will win, Hawks have a heap of injuries we have our backs against the wall and media attack on MM will have him and the players out to prove a point.

Also when ever we get this negative on the boards we usually come out and win.

Go pies.

Ps what the frick does Dawes have to do to get a game and Fraser/Brown/Toovey should count themselves lucky.

 

[Smoky]

Macaffer was promoted to the seniors on the back of performances I wouldn't say are any better than Dawes' or Anthony's.

He was promoted because other players were injured/out of form. We still have many out of form players who deserve to be dropped, but weren't.

Macaffer is a proven goal scorer in the VFL. And when he's played at FF has kicked bags of goals in the VFL. He has been being played a bit more on the ball last year and has obviously followed his coaches instructions to the letter.

Macaffers results in the VFL Forward line>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dawes.

Dawes results kicking goals in the VFL minnow what Dawes has done.

Uh, Leigh Brown has been terrible, awful, insipid, horrid. Just about the only thing he's done consistently this year is give away stupid frees. He brings physicality, yes, thats great but he brings nothing else. The only reason he's getting a game is because Mick thinks he's a good bloke.

That is absolutely ridiculous. So if we need a big man to rustle the feathers of an opposition big man, forward, centre or back... who would you put on him?

Fraser?

We don't know that Dawes doesn't have the confidence , because he is never given a ****ing go. That must dent it as much as anything.

Jack's a goal kicker , who only needs a few touches to hurt a side.

My point was he isn't beaming with confidence in the VFL yet... otherwise with the large amount of game time he gets up there he would of kicked some bags of goals. Giving him a game in the seniors might mean he kills it... But the times he has had a chance - he hasn't killed it.

If we used that theory for selection we'd be playing Shae and a long list of others. Surely you must earn your spot with solid performances... solid as a Full forward is 4, 5, 6 the occasion 7 goals a game. He's kicked 7 once this year in a VFL practice match... but not in the VFL real season! Surely he should kick 5 week in week out in the VFL with so many people wanting him in, but hasn't performed in the AFL???

I agree on Jack... but he's obviously not getting enough of the ball. A couple more games out of the seniors, and kick a bag in the VFL with do his hunger and confidence a world of good. We need Jack hungry and he hasn't showed that yet... I'm happy to wait.

 

[Somebody]

I am so pissed of atm. Who is gonna kick our ****ing goals!!! To not see Dawes and Jack even named as emergencies is a discrase, he kicked bloody 50 goals for us last year and hasnt mick learnt his bloody lession from last week that we only kicked 4 goals for the game. We got no chance.

I'll tip Josh to kick a bit of a bag 4+ and take about 8 marks, esp if Pendles is midfield-fit again.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Surely he should kick 5 week in week out in the VFL with so many people wanting him in, but hasn't performed in the AFL???

10 career games, an average of 5 marks and 1 goal per match, including 3 goals in an interstate final when he was essentially a decoy forward and still took what was probably our mark of the year. Not a bad start. Not when you consider that unlike Jack currently, he also creates goals for others.

 

[mattys123]

Not when you consider that unlike Jack currently, he also creates goals for others.

I think this is why we may see Dawes next week, and not Jack back in the side, that is if their performances at VFL level are comparable again.

MM has dropped Jack for a number of reasons, but the main ones are his lack of possessions other then scoring shots, and his lack of "assists".

Dawes on the other hand is young mix between Cloke and Medhurst, in that sometimes he is more unselfish then he should be.

Long term (2011 onwards) I see both of them in our best 22, as an integral part of our realistic attempt at a flag, but simply put they are both still "works in progress".

They will both play 12 + games this year, and next year hopefully be in our best 22.

 

[smiddaz123]

Travis' only weakness is his set shots.

So far off the mark.

 

[Smoky]

10 career games, an average of 5 marks and 1 goal per match, including 3 goals in an interstate final when he was essentially a decoy forward and still took what was probably our mark of the year. Not a bad start. Not when you consider that unlike Jack currently, he also creates goals for others.

Those 10 games are over 2 or 3 years. The interstate final you talk of was 2008... not exactly current form.

I would like to see Dawes kick a few bags, or honestly I'd be one calling for his selection if he were to kick 5 or 6 this week... but 2 or 3 in the VFL isn't enough for a call up yet.

 

[buzzbuzz]

Dawes will either ask for a trade or retire from football to work in law, Nathan Brown will go to West Coast for a high draft pick and Wood will be at Port next year. Mark it down. Absolutely ridiculous selection.

 

[Smoky]

Dawes will either ask for a trade or retire from football to work in law, Nathan Brown will go to West Coast for a high draft pick and Wood will be at Port next year. Mark it down. Absolutely ridiculous selection.

It's only round 4.

But do see your point... but lets wait till round 18 or so before that sort of speculation.

They won't leave because they didn't get selected in round 4 against the Hawks.