Similarities to the early Taylor years?

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#26
In terms of similarity to the Taylor years, I think we're maybe 3-4 years off. I can see a lot of talent coming through domestic ranks when the U19 world cup winning side begin to mature and the likes of M.Marsh, Faulkner, Hazlewood etc. get their opportunities at Test level.
 

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sherb

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#28
Punter had them and still lost the ashes, because he did not have the balls or sight to go for win. He captained out of fear. He also said that he did not want to be known as the captain that lost the ashes and that it was the team that lost it with there input, that in it self shows how weak minded he is. If you are the Boss the blame is always on you and you alone, every time no matter what.
Ah yes, another who subscribes to the "when the side wins it is because of the players, when the side loses it is because of Ponting" theory.

Even if you have gun players in the side, they still have to perform. In 2005, the experienced batsmen let the side down badly.

Gilchrist and Hayden in particular batted like donkeys (Hayden saved some face with an all too late hundred in the final test). Martyn was no better (aided by some rough decisions). Only Langer of the senior batsmen under Ponting could boast any sort of solid performance.

Only a handful of the players could hold their heads up after that tour, Warne of course being the standout, with McGrath not far behind. Even Lee's 20 odd wickets cost a fortune (over 40 per wicket from memory).

So, despite what you think of the captain, the players in the side still have to live up to their potential.

But, in the world of Ponting hate, none of that matters..........:)
 

maxy87

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#29
gbatman took the words out of my mouth!

Regardless of numbers, new personnel or the perceived strength of the opposition, I have seen more imagination, planning and confidence in the spinner from Clarke than I ever did with Punter.
 
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#30
he had shit bowlers, so he had to set fields for shit bowling, hardly rocket science.

you seriously think a good captain would let a bowler go for 6 an over for 20 overs each innings? you must be out of your mind.
As soon as you start setting fields for bad bowling you're gone, hardly rocket science. Ponting would often give the batsman an out with easy singles to defensive fields. That is just poor captaincy. I love Ponting as a player but he often let games just drift and showed little imagination in shaking things up when the opposition batsmen were set. Clarke has already showed a willingness to change things up.
 

maxy87

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#31
Lot of mentions of XXXX captain inheriting a good team from the one before. I tried to find somewhere to see what the first teams of each ones captaincy were (eg what was the team in Mark Taylors first test as Captain) but have not been able to find it. Would be interesting to see I think if anyone can find this.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63654.html

Fairly sure this was Taylor's first test as skipper
 
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#32
re. the part-time bowlers, Clarke does use them more but gets praised when it comes off but not the fact of their failure can get ignored. In Melbourne he let Tendulkar off the hook by bowling Hussey for quite a few overs just after he came in. The Hussey move hasn't really come off much.

re. the spinners, Lyon has really been the only one of the eleven or so post Warnie who's looked likely save a brief spell from Krezja and Hauritz. Punter had to put up with a lot of dross in this department.
 
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#33
Waugh and Ponting were both 'status quo' captains. Excellent for stabilising a team, and leading a stable team.

Not very good at troubleshooting though.
 

CHIEF SMACKAHOE

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#34
when he stops playing buddy buddy with haddin and makes the tough call on him then we can call him a good captain. and as for all this talk about captaining spinners, well, i just don't see it tbh. lyon hasn't really bowled much so far.
 

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maxy87

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#37
re. the part-time bowlers, Clarke does use them more but gets praised when it comes off but not the fact of their failure can get ignored. In Melbourne he let Tendulkar off the hook by bowling Hussey for quite a few overs just after he came in. The Hussey move hasn't really come off much.

re. the spinners, Lyon has really been the only one of the eleven or so post Warnie who's looked likely save a brief spell from Krezja and Hauritz. Punter had to put up with a lot of dross in this department.
This may be the case re: clarke and the part timers but regardless of whether it comes off or not, it indicates that Clarke is thinking outside the box at times and trying something different. I like that.

I agree that the Hussey move went too long but for a brief moment there, Hussey almost had Tendulkar caught at short leg playing a lazy defensive stroke. I don't mind the move to put on a part timer close to a break if there's a chance to expose some complacency.

Lyon has looked very good, especially his use of flight and drift, though Krejza was unlucky not to be persevered with IMO. If he had someone applying a bit more pressure at the other end it may have worked but I'm happy with Lyon at the moment
 

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BigCat2

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#39
Lot of mentions of XXXX captain inheriting a good team from the one before. I tried to find somewhere to see what the first teams of each ones captaincy were (eg what was the team in Mark Taylors first test as Captain) but have not been able to find it. Would be interesting to see I think if anyone can find this.
This is easy. Just go to the profile page of players you're interested in on cricinfo. After the career stats section it lists the first and last games played (Test, ODI, T20I, FC, ODD, T20).
 

dan warna

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#40
punter won the games he could win when he had the team to win with.

Don't forget he had to carry a lot of lemons during his captaincy like Spuddin, Hughes, smith, and a string of rubbish spinners. When he did have a good side his win rate was comparable with S.Waughs.

I can't believe the criticism of S.Waugh nor the adulation of Taylor. taylor's win rate was 50% and S.waughs was 75%. In modern cricket that is peerless.

Taylor's team was talented, but had players who were fat, lazy, happy to rest of their laurels, not willing to chase to the boundary and relax when they were ahead.

S.waugh took that team and turned it into one of the great teams of all time.

Border's captaincy improved as his players improved and his authority over the ACB improved.

I regard S.waugh as one of the great captains, Punter and taylor adequate captains and border a legend under pressure from day one, the vanguard of the army.

Clarke's captaincy looks much better now he has a battery of decent bowlers to select from.

It would look even better if he can replace his wicket keeper with a wheelie bin.
 

Black Diamond

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#41
IMO Ponting was the first captain since Kim Hughes not to leave the team in better condition than he found it. He may have lost some legends, but bloody hell, that doesn't mean your attention to detail in training and preparation should slip. Border hardened the side and taught them how to compete and fight for the win. Taylor showed them how to win and be the best, and Waugh turned them in to a bunch of ruthless killers.

The fight went out of us under Ponting, and there was no bigger indicator than the drop in standard of fielding, which irrespective of your talent as a batsman or bowler should be a non-negotiable in Australian team.
 
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