Simon Black Vs Jimmy Bartel

[kane249]

2 guys to do the AFL 'Grand Slam' (Brownlow, Premiership, AA, Norm Smith), who do you pick?

Simon Black
1 X Brownlow
3 X Premiership player
3 X All Australian
1 X Norm Smith
3 X Best and Fairest
322 games, 171 goals

Jimmy Bartel
1 X Brownlow
3 X Premiership Player
2 X All Australian
1 X Norm Smith
300 Games, 198 goals*

*Still going

 

[Donakebab]

Jimmy has been a great player, but Black quite comfortably.

 

[Lethality]

Simon Black and it's not even close.

Does the 'Grand Slam of AFL' also include having zero best and fairests? People leave that out when discussing Bartel. Perhaps this means Simon Black is in a league of his own now, having 300 games, a BnF, an AA, a Norm Smith, a Brownlow and 3 flags.

 

[carnthedons]

Simon Black and it's not even close.

Does the 'Grand Slam of AFL' also include having zero best and fairests? People leave that out when discussing Bartel. Perhaps this means Simon Black is in a league of his own now, having 300 games, a BnF, an AA, a Norm Smith, a Brownlow and 3 flags.

They're the only players to have won a brownlow and norm smith and played 300 games.

Interestingly Jimmy's the only brownlow and norm smith winner to not have a club b&f and while he's been a very good player, the others were all much better (Judd, Buckley, Williams, Hird & Black)

 

[Trav 20]

Black is almost underrated. In the top handful of mids I've ever seen and certainly in the top 3 handballers.

 

[Bobby_]

Black was a colossus in his prime.
I reckon Voss copped the brunt of the tags before teams caught on to no.20 and then it was Black having to contend with it for the rest of his career.

Really a no contest in my opinion. Black was a much more consistent player who was as brilliant and clean with his disposal as you would ever wish to see.
Bartel was one of the finest players of his draft but he will never be considered as one of the top 100 players of them all.

 

[Sando22]

Black pretty easily

 

[windyhill]

No contest, poll reflects this.

 

[kane249]

I thought this would have been a bit closer in hindsight...

 

[cotter101]

Black easily imo. Which says more about Black than it does Bartel who is no slouch.

 

[juss]

Black for me, but Bartel's record stacks up amongst AFL players, hes had an amazing career too.

 

[Schraderbrau]

acker v bartell would be a better poll

 

[cotter101]

acker v bartell would be a better poll

Aker would be well ahead in that poll imo.

 

[Schraderbrau]

Aker would be well ahead in that poll imo.

yeah but it would be closer than this one

 

[Lethality]

Black for me, but Bartel's record stacks up amongst AFL players, hes had an amazing career too.

It doesn't really. He's had 2 AAs and 0 best and fairests. The Brownlow is a flukey award, and the Norm Smith is a one-game medal. If you're talking about performing week in week out over his career, then Bartel hasn't been recognised as being amongst the better players of his generation.

 

[juss]

It doesn't really. He's had 2 AAs and 0 best and fairests. The Brownlow is a flukey award, and the Norm Smith is a one-game medal. If you're talking about performing week in week out over his career, then Bartel hasn't been recognised as being amongst the better players of his generation.

The Brownlow isnt a "fluke". The Norm Smith is the highest one game medal you can achieve. Hes played 300 games with high b&f finishes, but he played in a star studded team.
At Freo, only 3 players in your history have multi AAs at Freo, Pav, Sandilands and Fyfe.

Bartel's record shits on the majority of players who will play AFL.

 

[Lethality]

The Brownlow isnt a "fluke". The Norm Smith is the highest one game medal you can achieve.

The Brownlow doesn't go to the best player for any paticular year, most of the time, it's unreliable. Yes the NS is a high one-game medal, but it's a one-game medal.

Hes played 300 games with high b&f finishes, but he played in a star studded team.

He earned his high place finishes from playing a lot of games. In the years that he finished in the top handful of players in the BnF, he did so on the back of playing as many, or more games, than his teammates. Not missing games isn't really a sign of an elite player.

but he played in a star studded team.

So did Sam Mitchell, Dan Hannebery, etc. You know, players who actually perform to this level we're trying to put Bartel in.

Bartel's record shits on the majority of players who will play AFL.

The question is not about the majority, it's whether he matches up with the elite players of the game, and he doesn't, hence the lack of reliable performance awards. This combination of achievements is cute trivia, nothing more. The fact that it's Simon Black and Bartel in this group and not Gary Ablett and Leigh Matthews is a good indication of that.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

The Brownlow isnt a "fluke". The Norm Smith is the highest one game medal you can achieve. Hes played 300 games with high b&f finishes, but he played in a star studded team.
At Freo, only 3 players in your history have multi AAs at Freo, Pav, Sandilands and Fyfe.

Bartel's record shits on the majority of players who will play AFL.

lol, you know you're responding to a Hawks supporter who is a well known Bartel/Geelong troll?

 

[Vindicater]

Bartel is a champion.

Black is an even bigger champion.