Simon Goodwin: Why so little noise?

Juddernaut08

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 8, 2007
6,582
8,057
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Mate David King shot his load in 2017 when we beat WC in Perth by 3 points and declared we’d win the flag, we didn’t play finals!

No mate, the public didn’t bring it, the term public is very broad. The media got into a circle jerk about us and the rest is history.
Are you serious? Go checkout the Predicted AFL ladder thread. The first 50+ pages have 90% people putting Dees in their top 4. Some as top 1.

This was as early as Sep last year and all the way up to beginning of season 2019. It was wifespread view. Hence ecpecations.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Demonic Ascent

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 21, 2006
14,618
10,092
Muckertal
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Eltham Turtles, NY Jets, Celtics
Shows how wrong the media can be.

Melbourne 2018 only won 2 games against top 8 teams during the season and then played really well during finals. Prelim was an overachievement last year.

Melbourne’s Prelim side was the youngest prelim side in over 10 years. Young sides barely back up top seasons as they have longer to start pre-season training and don’t have the years of fitness and strength to stay up strait away.

I wrote it big footy Melbourne will have a bad first half of the season, be down near the bottom 4 but will have a better 2nd half and push for finals 7th-12th.

Sure Melbourne won’t be pushing finals even if we do have a good finish to the season, but to the people who thought Melbourne were top 4 and a serious premiership contender are just basing it off 2 good finals games and nothing else
It was based off year on year improvement from 2013-2018, not just 2 finals games.
 

demondavey

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 18, 2005
22,561
17,984
AFL Club
Melbourne
Are you serious? Go checkout the Predicted AFL ladder thread. The first 50+ pages have 90% people putting Dees in their top 4. Some as top 1.

This was as early as Sep last year and all the way up to beginning of season 2019. It was wifespread view. Hence ecpecations.
Hence a gross lack of misunderstanding of our list and game plan.
 

Topkent

Hall of Famer
Aug 29, 2010
35,572
43,856
Canada
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Winnipeg Jets
Yes, so the expectations were so high and the difference in expectations and reality is huge. Took us 5 posts to get to this point. Hence why I said lets agree to disagree.

Good luck hope you beat the Saints. Helps us out too
I hope we lose, not because of pick 2 but because our club needs to not think everythings ok with a couple of late season wins.
 

Damon_3388

Hall of Famer
Jun 23, 2008
32,125
25,264
Headed for Kirribilli House
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Norwood, Everton, Detroit Red Wings
I'm not using it as an excuse I'm saying it's the weakest spot on the list (in addition to small forward) and nothing has gone to plan. Kolodjashnij had no trade value but signed a decent contract with Melbourne because they wanted him in the best 22 on the wing to provide to outside run and class they needed, he trained all summer on one wing with Fritsch on the other. Vandenberg the mid/wing/forward utility type who can play on the wing if needed. Baker and Stretch the developmental/depth players.

Geelong this year compared to last are showing the value of fixing glaring weaknesses and how star players alone are overrated. Melbourne's stars carried them to a prelim surrounded by some ordinary players and with the stars down on form the weaknesses are on display. It's the reality of having to build pretty much a whole fresh list since the Neeld days, fixing everything at once was going to be a big struggle.
Underrated/overlooked how much Melbourne's forward line is missing Jake Melksham's smarts and creativity. Led the league in goal assists per game in 2018, and is leading again this year (if you don't cut him out due to games played) too.
 

Unknown Identity

Professional Strawman
Oct 7, 2009
16,699
24,482
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Dallas Cowboys Chicago Bulls
I haven't gone through the entire thread so apologies if i'm rehashing something that has already been discussed.

Take nearly 70 goals out of any teams forward line and you'll find that they will struggle.
Hogan was a massive loss and Melksham has missed more than half the season.

Add to that a pretty extensive list of injuries, some best 22, some depth.. but you have a perfect storm.
 

Topkent

Hall of Famer
Aug 29, 2010
35,572
43,856
Canada
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Winnipeg Jets
I haven't gone through the entire thread so apologies if i'm rehashing something that has already been discussed.

Take nearly 70 goals out of any teams forward line and you'll find that they will struggle.
Hogan was a massive loss and Melksham has missed more than half the season.

Add to that a pretty extensive list of injuries, some best 22, some depth.. but you have a perfect storm.
Hogan, Melksham, Hannan and Garlett have all been injured but I wouldn't necessarily blame the injuries. Wouldn't matter who we had down there
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

demondavey

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 18, 2005
22,561
17,984
AFL Club
Melbourne
Yes, so the expectations were so high and the difference in expectations and reality is huge. Took us 5 posts to get to this point. Hence why I said lets agree to disagree.

Good luck hope you beat the Saints. Helps us out too
How do you arrive there? The expectations were created by the media and fans who got a sense of a false dawn. It’s not like we’ve arrived anywhere, your post inadvertently agrees with my point re unrealistic expectations for 2019.

Simplifying it for you, if people actually assessed us in detail and depth after 2018 they’d have seen some glaringly obvious issues that wouldn’t have put us anywhere near the top 2. Now I admit I didn’t think the bottom 2 was on the cards, I thought we were are 7-10 team this year (probably 7-8) to be fair, but we are eons away from a flag.
 

demondavey

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 18, 2005
22,561
17,984
AFL Club
Melbourne
Pretty obvious the answer to this entire thread can be made with one word:

Context.

It's not like there's some grand conspiracy to go easy on him or the Dee's
Correct. And all these people posting that we are off limits due to Roos are tugging themselves. Even the media aren’t stupid enough to call for Goodwin’s Head yet, the criticism directed at Bolton, Scott and Richardson is fair and much more warranted given the tenure of their positions and lack of ability to drive the clubs ascent.

I put my head on the block in saying that next year, within 4 weeks of underperforming by Melbourne, there will be no man under more heat than Goodwin; and that includes a poor start by Fremantle, Sydney, Adelaide or Port. Maybe only Worsfold could draw level if Essendon don’t play finals this year.
 

Juddernaut08

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 8, 2007
6,582
8,057
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
How do you arrive there? The expectations were created by the media and fans who got a sense of a false dawn. It’s not like we’ve arrived anywhere, your post inadvertently agrees with my point re unrealistic expectations for 2019.

Simplifying it for you, if people actually assessed us in detail and depth after 2018 they’d have seen some glaringly obvious issues that wouldn’t have put us anywhere near the top 2. Now I admit I didn’t think the bottom 2 was on the cards, I thought we were are 7-10 team this year (probably 7-8) to be fair, but we are eons away from a flag.
Expectations: The expectations of the public and media. Very high for the Demons in 2019. Backed up by Champion Data.
Reality: Bottom 4 in 2019

The disappointment (and usually, criticism) is large. Shorter duration than the disappoitnment for Saints, but of greater magnitude (Saints were poor, but were not expected to be good. Saints list was always rated low).

Just because you had a different view, which was more accurate, does not change what the expectations were. Perhaps you had better insight, knew the list better or for whatever reason reached your conclusion. But that's the opinion of just one person.

The point is, if it was someone like GWS finishing bottom 2 this year, Leon Cameron would be gone. But because Melbourne have the Roos/Gil protection, not a peep.
 

demondavey

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 18, 2005
22,561
17,984
AFL Club
Melbourne
Expectations: The expectations of the public and media. Very high for the Demons in 2019. Backed up by Champion Data.
Reality: Bottom 4 in 2019

The disappointment (and usually, criticism) is large. Shorter duration than the disappoitnment for Saints, but of greater magnitude (Saints were poor, but were not expected to be good. Saints list was always rated low).

Just because you had a different view, which was more accurate, does not change what the expectations were. Perhaps you had better insight, knew the list better or for whatever reason reached your conclusion. But that's the opinion of just one person.

The point is, if it was someone like GWS finishing bottom 2 this year, Leon Cameron would be gone. But because Melbourne have the Roos/Gil protection, not a peep.
I’ll leave it at this ‘just because you had a different view that was more accurate’.

You seem to be dogged in your mindset that there’s a grand conspiracy to protect Melbourne due to Roos, yet you overlook the failings of Scott, Bolton and Richardson in relation to the timeframe they were employed.

The media has given leeway to Goodwin for a sub par year, and it’s not about the perceived expectations you’re peddling upon, it’s about the timeframe of the role. In 3 years we have missed finals twice, made a PF last year. We’ve literally improved in a linear manner in ladder position each year since 2014 with 2019 being the exception. Also your misplaced paranoid notion that we are protected due to Roos means you should probably be posting this on the conspiracies board.

How can you not understand this?
 

Damon_3388

Hall of Famer
Jun 23, 2008
32,125
25,264
Headed for Kirribilli House
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Norwood, Everton, Detroit Red Wings
Pretty obvious the answer to this entire thread can be made with one word:

Context.

It's not like there's some grand conspiracy to go easy on him or the Dee's
After all, the Dees did make a prelim last year, after years out of the finals. That'll buy any coach time.

Pressure will come if 2019's results bleed into 2020.
 

Juddernaut08

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 8, 2007
6,582
8,057
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
I’ll leave it at this ‘just because you had a different view that was more accurate’.

You seem to be dogged in your mindset that there’s a grand conspiracy to protect Melbourne due to Roos, yet you overlook the failings of Scott, Bolton and Richardson in relation to the timeframe they were employed.

The media has given leeway to Goodwin for a sub par year, and it’s not about the perceived expectations you’re peddling upon, it’s about the timeframe of the role. In 3 years we have missed finals twice, made a PF last year. We’ve literally improved in a linear manner in ladder position each year since 2014 with 2019 being the exception. Also your misplaced paranoid notion that we are protected due to Roos means you should probably be posting this on the conspiracies board.

How can you not understand this?
Like I said, let's agree to disagree. Your perception has clouded your ability to see the wider narrative. You've lost touch with public perception.

EDIT: It's not a conspiracy since we can see it happening right in front of us.
 

demondavey

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 18, 2005
22,561
17,984
AFL Club
Melbourne
Like I said, let's agree to disagree. Your perception has clouded your ability to see the wider narrative. You've lost touch with public perception.

EDIT: It's not a conspiracy since we can see it happening right in front of us.
No mate. Nothing has clouded my ability to see it. Public perception is buying into a narrative that the public are on a whole ‘correct’. If public perception was that grass was red then they’d be wrong.
 

Juddernaut08

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 8, 2007
6,582
8,057
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
No mate. Nothing has clouded my ability to see it. Public perception is buying into a narrative that the public are on a whole ‘correct’. If public perception was that grass was red then they’d be wrong.
You're still failing to see the point. The public thought you'd be good. You weren't. Someone needs to be blamed.

The fact that no-one at Melbourne has been held to account for it shows the media protection. Can't believe you still can't see this point.

Imagine one of the shows Roosy is on discussing Melbourne, the failed coaching of Goodwin. Then throwing it over to Roos on the panel criticising a bad appointment. But then again, it was him who installed, mentored and gave Goodwin his "blessing". Imagine the embarrassment in that scenario. Won't happen though.
 

Demonic Ascent

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 21, 2006
14,618
10,092
Muckertal
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Eltham Turtles, NY Jets, Celtics
Expectations: The expectations of the public and media. Very high for the Demons in 2019. Backed up by Champion Data.
Reality: Bottom 4 in 2019

The disappointment (and usually, criticism) is large. Shorter duration than the disappoitnment for Saints, but of greater magnitude (Saints were poor, but were not expected to be good. Saints list was always rated low).

Just because you had a different view, which was more accurate, does not change what the expectations were. Perhaps you had better insight, knew the list better or for whatever reason reached your conclusion. But that's the opinion of just one person.

The point is, if it was someone like GWS finishing bottom 2 this year, Leon Cameron would be gone. But because Melbourne have the Roos/Gil protection, not a peep.
It's got nothing to do with Roos/Gil (wtf?)
 

Sirlemsip

All Australian
May 5, 2014
629
859
AFL Club
Hawthorn
After all, the Dees did make a prelim last year, after years out of the finals. That'll buy any coach time.

Pressure will come if 2019's results bleed into 2020.
Agree.

1 poor year and you could argue it is complacency on the part of the players

2 poor years and the issues likely come from higher up (e.g. coach)

Melbourne were also pretty hard hit by injuries at the back end of 2018, and a lot of players had little to no preseason as a result of surgeries, etc.
 

demondavey

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 18, 2005
22,561
17,984
AFL Club
Melbourne
You're still failing to see the point. The public thought you'd be good. You weren't. Someone needs to be blamed.

The fact that no-one at Melbourne has been held to account for it shows the media protection. Can't believe you still can't see this point.

Imagine one of the shows Roosy is on discussing Melbourne, the failed coaching of Goodwin. Then throwing it over to Roos on the panel criticising a bad appointment. But then again, it was him who installed, mentored and gave Goodwin his "blessing". Imagine the embarrassment in that scenario. Won't happen though.
Now you really don’t know what you’re on about. The public ‘expecting’ Melbourne to be one thing means nothing if they don’t understand football properly. Clearly you do not.

Why does someone need to be blamed? If you had any clue you’d understand that Melbourne has reshuffled their assistant coaching structure, effectively demoting some individuals. You seem to be one of these types where you feel blame should be issued at will if the public cry foul, even if displaying mass ignorance.

Do you think that there won’t be change at year end? Our strength and conditioning coach is going, I dare say there will be other departures. You’re know just digging a hole, what had Roos done wrong? I don’t need to ‘imagine’ anything like you seem to be constantly doing. What has he done wrong at Melbourne? Is this not Goodwin’s second year? What influence does Roos have now to apportion blame to him?

You’re incapable of getting it it seems.
 

Top Bottom