Roast Simpson needs to wake up

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Ishmael_

And so it goes....
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I love Simpson and have been very impressed by the way he's constantly been re-inventing the team while staying in finals contention. 2 Grand finals with different styles, 1 premiership and only one year without finals is fantastic. No qualms with Simmo, but I think we do need to change again next year and I reckon Simpson will have thought the same.

At the end of the day, we play a difficult, high skill level required brand of footy and we don't have the players to pull it off anymore. There's no Rioli, no Lecras, no Hurn (the creative version), Cripps now and no real Jetta, so we miss the creative playmakers and excellent kicks at half-back and at half-forward.

We need to simplify our game and work on our contested play, force more stoppages, throw in a little bit more handball and rejig the gameplan. We have the cattle to be a very good team, just not with the gameplan we currently have. I'd like to see us emulate Geelong a bit. Make it turgid and hard to score with the same kicking defence and then attack with more handball, run the ball with quick entries and use our strong marking forward line to create danger.
 

Scotland

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I like Simmo, but he does come across as a bit of a sook when we are in Qld. Not a massive sook, but give the peanuts in the footy media a couple of raindrops in a teacup and all of a sudden you need an ark.
 

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greatwhiteshark

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I like Simmo, but he does come across as a bit of a sook when we are in Qld. Not a massive sook, but give the peanuts in the footy media a couple of raindrops in a teacup and all of a sudden you need an ark.
I really like him as well and I think he is a good coach in many respects. But I think the family and friends crap is too much. Our players won’t get their hands dirty and hate being out of their comfort zone. That is directly related to the coach and what he stands for in my opinion. The coach sets the rules and the standards, it is his game plan which is uncontested footy. He set it, he installed it.
 

Tugga27

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This thread in less than 12 months is going to pop IMO. Just have a gut feeling we'll drop from contending to fighting out top 8 and there'll be a ton of pressure on the man. Just felt that this was our last crack at another GF and covid and now injuries have f’ed us up.

JK and Hurn doing Cox/Glass (aka 2014) leaving JD and Young Allen fighting it out.

Basically a fit midfield and Willie returning will be key to pushing top 4 next year.
I'd love to see it, but would be really surprised if Willie was allowed to play next year TBH.
 

Obeanie1

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Of course there's the possibility that I may be wrong. I can only go by the information I have at hand, like every other poster here. The difference between me and many on this forum is that I'm not such a sycophant so as to not question the club on its decisions.



Your preconceived notion / bias invalidates the point of the question.



When I've answered this over and over again and you still don't understand why I hold the position I do evidences you're either not paying attention or you're not the sharpest tool in the tool kit. Your post here is just emotional venting at someone who disagrees with you more than a good faith question. Your passive aggressiveness is telling.



"Silly" is your opinion. This supposed silly call played a part in WC losing not only the game but keeping their top 4 aspirations in their own hands. ;P
So so Longshanks.........

OK so you could be wrong.:thumbsu:

You don't have all the information.:thumbsu:

Your objection to not playing Nic is purely emotional as opposed to being based on any real facts.

You don't hold any value in considering the players injury history.

You don't agree how every team in the competition has rotated / managed / rested sore players whilst in the condensed fixture and think we should just keep playing the best team on paper.

So really it was just a vent that we lost a game we would have won with a fully fit Naitanui!

Got it. :thumbsu: :)
 

Obeanie1

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We are missing them because we recruit small forwards instead of midfielders. You only ever need one specialist small forward, all the rest should be midfielders who can play small forward when needed.
Petch, Cameron, cripps, Jones will never ever be midfielders. Ah Chee had his chance earlier in his career as a midfielder and struggled but hence why he can still contribute as a small forward.
Ryan could easilyplay midfield but we would lose to much not having him forward. We miss Rioli a lot but he again is just a small forward and not someone who will be a midfielder. Should be with his talent though.

They once said in football that great small forwards are simply failed midfielders, I still think there is truth to this and trying to recruit small forwards is wasting resources. I would pick the 50th best midfielder in Australia over the best small forward in the draft every day of the week.
We have way to many similar same type players who are simply only small forwards at best, and we are proving week after week that only a couple of them are any good.
Didn't we stuff up years ago playing mids as forwards?

Then we brought in Ryan and Willie, played forwards forward and mids in the middle and won a flag.
 

Chris_6678

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This thread in less than 12 months is going to pop IMO. Just have a gut feeling we'll drop from contending to fighting out top 8 and there'll be a ton of pressure on the man. Just felt that this was our last crack at another GF and covid and now injuries have f’ed us up.

JK and Hurn doing Cox/Glass (aka 2014) leaving JD and Young Allen fighting it out.

Basically a fit midfield and Willie returning will be key to pushing top 4 next year.
I feel more confident of at least another crack next year than I did this year.

We have blooded a player like Xon who might not have even gotten a look in it all our mids were fit. Rotham, Waterman, Allen, Brander have also been given agood crack so our depth next year will be very good. Cameron who I rate highly think can have a big year once he can get a good pre season after that dodgy groin, Bailey also looked promising and should help soften the blow for when Nic Nat hangs the boots up.
 

greatwhiteshark

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Back in 2017.

Recall Simo talking about it. Will go look for the article.
Do you think any of Petch, Jones, Cameron can become solid midfielders? Throw in Cripps who couldn't play midfield, Ah Chee is not up to midfield, Venables not sure of as yet. Ainsworth I don't reckon will end up in our midfield. Ryan and Rioli could both play midfield with their talent but they are very good forward.
My Point is why have all these guys been recruited? How many small forwards does one list need?
 

Obeanie1

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Do you think any of Petch, Jones, Cameron can become solid midfielders?

Throw in Cripps who couldn't play midfield, Ah Chee is not up to midfield, Venables not sure of as yet.

Ainsworth I don't reckon will end up in our midfield. Ryan and Rioli could both play midfield with their talent but they are very good forward.

My Point is why have all these guys been recruited? How many small forwards does one list need?
Here is the article.



Unlike last season, the Eagles are playing more genuine forwards — both tall and small — in their forward 50, which has led to the club having the third-best offence and second-best percentage in the league.

“Last year, our philosophy was ‘who’s the next best player?’ If we didn’t have too many options in the forward line, we’d play a midfielder and try and get a bit more rotation through the middle,” Simpson said.

“But this year we’ve stuck fat with saying ‘let’s play this many forwards and make sure they play their role’.”

I get where you are coming from but we won a flag playing forwards forward. As we have seen in many games lately finishing off kicking on goal is massive. How many games have we won off good kicking at goal and being efficient.

Why have they been recruited? To cover injury, unavailability, suspension and also planning for the future.

In a years time we likely will not have Venables and Ah chee. Who knows with Willie and Jones and Teacy are rookies who haven't cemented a spot.

Right now we are crying out for a fit Cameron. Petch is injured and Cripps is home on personal leave.

I'd say we have more than usual small forwards simply due to the Venables and Rioli situations. If those two were available we would have two less small forward rookies.

Remember back when we never bothered focusing on small forwards with good defense? We looked out of balance.
 

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greatwhiteshark

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Here is the article.



Unlike last season, the Eagles are playing more genuine forwards — both tall and small — in their forward 50, which has led to the club having the third-best offence and second-best percentage in the league.

“Last year, our philosophy was ‘who’s the next best player?’ If we didn’t have too many options in the forward line, we’d play a midfielder and try and get a bit more rotation through the middle,” Simpson said.

“But this year we’ve stuck fat with saying ‘let’s play this many forwards and make sure they play their role’.”

I get where you are coming from but we won a flag playing forwards forward. As we have seen in many games lately finishing off kicking on goal is massive. How many games have we won off good kicking at goal and being efficient.

Why have they been recruited? To cover injury, unavailability, suspension and also planning for the future.

In a years time we likely will not have Venables and Ah chee. Who knows with Willie and Jones and Teacy are rookies who haven't cemented a spot.

Right now we are crying out for a fit Cameron. Petch is injured and Cripps is home on personal leave.

I'd say we have more than usual small forwards simply due to the Venables and Rioli situations. If those two were available we would have two less small forward rookies.

Remember back when we never bothered focusing on small forwards with good defense? We looked out of balance.
It is sound logic in every sense except that none of them can pinch hit in the middle and that is a bigger problem for us or any team when you lack ability through the midfield. I would love to see Ryan get a run through the midfield, he has a tank, he has a great work ethic and has the skills and awareness. Unfortunately we can can ill afford to lose him in the forward line.
How do we get the ball forward though?
I get it, nothing can be simple and rarely does any team cover all bases perfectly. But I just don't understand what Petch, cameron, jones etc are being developed as?
 

Obeanie1

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It is sound logic in every sense except that none of them can pinch hit in the middle and that is a bigger problem for us or any team when you lack ability through the midfield. I would love to see Ryan get a run through the midfield, he has a tank, he has a great work ethic and has the skills and awareness. Unfortunately we can can ill afford to lose him in the forward line.
How do we get the ball forward though?
I get it, nothing can be simple and rarely does any team cover all bases perfectly. But I just don't understand what Petch, cameron, jones etc are being developed as?
When we talk midfielders we are talking on ball players not wings?

The reason being is Cripps and Ryan do spend a fair amount of time up the ground on the wings. In fact most players these days play 2/3ds of the ground in reality, the forwards regularly push past the defensive half way and defenders push up to half forward. (On a side note how good is Cole going, two goals in two weeks).

Delivering the ball inside the forward 50 is often better done by a high half forward than an inside mid. Rioli and Ryan are two of the best kicks inside 50 we have due to their agility and awareness.

Also we need to remember this is not a screaming issue right now other than we have injuries. And yes some more depth in the middle would be good. We almost beat the Dogs without three of our very best.

Nic, Shuey, Yeo, Kelly, Gaff, Sheed and Redden is more than a handy bunch.

But after this we do need some developing kids coming through. Healy On the couch has said more than once he see's Duggan moving into the midfield, he seems to be quicker and more agile this season.

I would love us to nab Rivers from the Demons and Roberston from the Lions. Both will be very gettable next year IMO. Rivers I see as tracking along the same lines as Yeo, starts in defense and builds into a midfielder.

Possibly get Alec Waterman back this draft as a Petracca type big bodied HFFer who can rotate on ball.

Narkle or Cockatoo are two other forward / mids we could get this season. There will be a few depth options become available this year and next with list and cap reductions.
 
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FreeTK

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Some people in here raise a good point.

We are a less talented team in 2020 than we were in 2018.

Our recruiters have played it safe and taken low risk low reward players with our speculative picks.

I don’t think our window will close next year but we do need a bit of a refresh.



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Pulsedriver

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You don't have all the information.:thumbsu:
I had as much as you prior to the game, and as much as you after the game. So if we, as posters on an opinion board, shouldn't comment unless we have complete information, what's the point of the changes and predictions thread? "You don't have all the information" doesn't mean none.

If you're going to point out that you're not saying we can't comment and draw conclusions from less than complete information, what's the actual point of your comment " You don't have all the information.:thumbsu:" I get it, it's likely to be emotionally satisfying for you.

Your objection to not playing Nic is purely emotional as opposed to being based on any real facts.
Your assuming I had no information for which I drew my conclusion, then you've jumped straight into another assumption by saying that conclusion was based on emotion. Again, you're emotionally venting on someone who disagrees with you, for two assumptions in short order in no way can be considered rational, reasonable and provided in good faith.

You don't hold any value in considering the players injury history.
Ah, another assumption. Did I not previously say something to the effect that winning requires calculated risk?

You don't agree how every team in the competition has rotated / managed / rested sore players whilst in the condensed fixture and think we should just keep playing the best team on paper.

So really it was just a vent that we lost a game we would have won with a fully fit Naitanui!
Firstly, I haven't been talking about how teams rotated / managed / rested sore players. I've specifically been discussing Nic.

Secondly, I haven't been an advocate of continually playing best team on paper. I outlined where I believe Nic should have a rest. The changes and prediction thread, post 155 on Wednesday 10:21pm is where I stated that Nic should have a rest against North, not the Bulldogs or Saints. Get your facts straight instead of making it up as you go.

Thirdly, your conclusion in the second sentence isn't a logical conclusion to your stated premise in the first sentence.

Given the amount of assumptions you've drawn, the logical misstep and thus faulty conclusion, there's little wonder as to how Longshanks so easily had his way with you.
 

RookiePick

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Some people in here raise a good point.

We are a less talented team in 2020 than we were in 2018.

Our recruiters have played it safe and taken low risk low reward players with our speculative picks.

I don’t think our window will close next year but we do need a bit of a refresh.



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I said it earlier in this thread. We might have come unstuck this season with injuries late but I think we have laid a really solid foundation for 2021. Exposure of more of our youth will prove to be pivotal.
 

ghostbat12

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Some people in here raise a good point.

We are a less talented team in 2020 than we were in 2018.

Our recruiters have played it safe and taken low risk low reward players with our speculative picks.

I don’t think our window will close next year but we do need a bit of a refresh.



On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
I honestly don’t think you know yourself what you want.

However I do think we need an inside Bull we have been calling for. Our mids are not bulls. We have a lot of “2nd midfielders” if you know what I mean.
 

Obeanie1

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I honestly don’t think you know yourself what you want.

However I do think we need an inside Bull we have been calling for. Our mids are not bulls. We have a lot of “2nd midfielders” if you know what I mean.
Yeo isn't a small mid.

And Nic......

We could get a bull tomorrow. They just wouldn't be up to our kicking style of game though.

Brad Crouch? Don't have the cap space.
 

Doashuey

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Shuey and Yeo are both "bulls". Both are big boys (Shuey isnt 6'3" but is solid as fk) great extracters of the ball and can lay heavy tackles, fend of would be tacklers and get it to the outside. Thats it, that is a bull. It isnt some mythical beast that every other club has and we dont.
 

ghostbat12

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Shuey and Yeo are both "bulls". Both are big boys (Shuey isnt 6'3" but is solid as fk) great extracters of the ball and can lay heavy tackles, fend of would be tacklers and get it to the outside. Thats it, that is a bull. It isnt some mythical beast that every other club has and we dont.
Fact we get beaten inside when there is no Nic Nat is evidence of them not really being the bulls.

Doesn’t mean they aren’t still very good players though. Anyway, maybe my impression of inside bull is different to others. Constant bowling balls getting their hands on it first.
 

Coasters7

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Fact we get beaten inside when there is no Nic Nat is evidence of them not really being the bulls.

Doesn’t mean they aren’t still very good players though. Anyway, maybe my impression of inside bull is different to others. Constant bowling balls getting their hands on it first.
Yeah I agree. Shuey and Yeo are shithouse without Nic.


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Scotland

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I really like him as well and I think he is a good coach in many respects. But I think the family and friends crap is too much. Our players won’t get their hands dirty and hate being out of their comfort zone. That is directly related to the coach and what he stands for in my opinion. The coach sets the rules and the standards, it is his game plan which is uncontested footy. He set it, he installed it.
Agreed. The whole friends family flags thing is nice, but it's 2020. There are teams in the A-League and NRL from NZ who had to embrace hub life here. Richmond, Geelong and Collingwood haven't played in Victoria since July, we just finished a 6 week block at home. They are 3 of our main rivals and have all managed to beat good sides in Queenland (or in Collingwood's case Perth). Earlier in the year when we lost to GC, Port and Bris (the latter two of which are pretty good sides) we lacked intensity and that slowly picked up when we beat Adelaide and Sydney and returned to Perth.

We do chip the ball around a lot in the back half but we won a flag with Yeo and Redden as tackling machines, Hutchings tagging Sidebottom in the GF, Lycett and Vardy tag teaming to work Grundy over in the GF, Schofield wearing De Goey like a glove etc. We had 56 tackles vs Richmond, 26 vs Essendon and 34 vs the Bulldogs. I know we are down on some troops in the middle but if we can keep pace with Richmond and Geelong in tackling in tight games how to we just drop off completely in the next two games? It was 38-26 and 49-34 too, not like they were completely bruise free games.
 

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