Sink or swim Melbourne clubs !!!!!

[Port Adelaide 1870]

The South Melbourne to Sydney experiment has taken nearly two decades to come off, it is finally coming to fruition.

As for other Melbourne based traditional suburban local clubs.....Use your where with all within your own jurisdiction...or ...............DIE.....stiff !!!!.........sorry to all the regular big footy contributors who may follow an ailing Melbourne based club.

The AFL is only one thing and one thing only .....nothing more....,But a means by the old Victorian community hierachy to try and ensure the survival of Local Melbourne suburban football clubs.....They pulled it off beautifully....

and at the expense of 130 years of league football in every Australian rules capital city outside of Melbourne.

Stiff if another club falls over....Stiff....Stiff !!!!!

Let the Kang North Roos Melbourne club team survive in Melbourne or ....Die....


Dont get me wrong... I'd feel sorry for them, but no more than an equally traditional and important club like West Torrens.

If Sydney needs or want another club......Allow the AFL hierachy the latitude to negotiate with the Local Sydney football league and other interested Football professionals in Sydney to form a new Sydney team, with Sydney people, heritage and Sydney business and Sydney Football in mind....Not the requirements of Victorian business interests or the interests of egotistical, power hungry, current hierachy of any particular Melbourne based Football club, fearful that they may be all of a sudden nobodies, or relegated to a local Victorian league/ Assoc. if thier particular club doesnt relocate...and infect another city....


Let Melbourne based clubs sink or swim....


before I get all the rabid abuse.............


Dont get me wrong...this post is not anti Victorian ...rather the opposite....

If your club is strong enough to survive in its enviroment... that is the enviroment that keeps telling the rest of Australia that it is the heaven of football... the Home of Football, well let that home nurture its own

Let the rest of Australia contribute its own character, not Melbourne clubs relocating, relying on the hospitality, goodwill and money of a foreign location to help their survival.

Sydney could esily contribute another or two AFL clubs.....but their own creation! not some Melbourne club dying of Cancer looking for some cure and having to act like a prostitute trying to buy Sydneys favours.

PA1870

 

[Mobbs]

Being a Fitzroy supporter, I was fuming as I scrolled down through your post.

But by the time I read it to its completions, I flamin' well agree with yer.

Moving a club to a promising new locale, might just knock on the head an upcoming club that might in ten years or so have won the right to vie for AFL inclusion in its own right.

My only point of contention about the argument is that, regards the AFL, yer bloody well welcome to it!

------------------
Hallowed be thy Roy

 

[Port Adelaide 1870]

I really feel sorry for Fitzroy,

But as I've said not at the expense of Port Adelaide.......who would have suffered a slower, painful slide then inevitable death in what is / will become an irrelevance to the AFL ...the SANFL.

PA1870

 

[Carey_is_King]

North Melbourne may die in the coming years, but if they do, you can be assured that it will not be due to bad management or lack of commitment to survive without charity.
They are the most innovative club in the competition, and probably deserve to outlast some others, but true to my signature, if they become too weak to survive, they should go. I'll put my money on a couple of others disappearing before us though.

------------------
Trample the Weak,
Hurdle the Dead.

 

[Frodo]

Shame to merge clubs as it destroys the names etc, like Fotzroy and Footscray. I would rather see them still in the VFL and maybe with a promotion/ relegation system.

How about this. The winners of the WAFL, VFL and SAFL play off for the chance to meet the AFL wooden spooners. If they beat the wooden spooners they replace them in the AFL.

 

[Carey_is_King]

And if they do beat them, where do the AFL wooden spooners play the following year ?

------------------
Trample the Weak,
Hurdle the Dead.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Frodo says:
Shame to merge clubs as it destroys the names etc, like Fotzroy

You're doing a pretty good job of it on your own!

 

[Mr Ripper]

Carey_is_King (Judas) penned:
North Melbourne may die in the coming years, but if they do, you can be assured that it will not be due to bad management or lack of commitment to survive without charity.
They are the most innovative club in the competition, and probably deserve to outlast some others, blah de blah de blah...

It won't worry you anyway, CiK. By then you'll be bouncing merrily along on some other, more affluent club's bandwagon.

 

[sandie]

pa1870
You say you don't want to see any vic clubs fold, how come then you are constantly coming out with these posts. Strange how it is always supporters of interstate clubs sprouting this shit. I know it would make it easier for you interstate clubs to actually do well, if the stronger Victorian clubs didn't exist. Try beating us on your own merits, not by eliminating your opposition. Even the pies could do well if a few top Vic sides disappeared.

------------------
mantis

 

[Hawkforce.]

Why not throw out any AFL Club that has only won 1 or less flags in the last 20 years?

Given that the supporter base in Victoria stems from the success (or lack of it) of clubs between 1897 and 1960, isn't it unfair to suddenly cut off the growth of those clubs whose success came after 1960?

Generations beget generations - witness Hawthorn's huge growth in supporters under 35, compared to their overall supporter base.

Similarly North Melbourne will have a supporter leap by the second decade of this millenium.

Why shouldn't Collingwood or perhaps Richmond be sacrificed for the benefit of their longsuffering supporters future children?

THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!

That aint gonna happen. Just as no matter how much you post, PA 1870, are we going to accept that the decline of the SANFL or the WAFL, represents a tragedy on the level of what happened to Fitzroy.

You should be ecstatic, PA1870. You alone of the interstaters have your actual club of origin to support in the AFL. Without wanting to start a shitfight, can I point out that Port were begging for admittance. And our Clubs voted you in.

Don't bite the hand that fed you! You might get smacked.

Now, please, no more posts urging us Victorians to fall into abject despair. Your veiws on Port Adelaide are valid and interesting, as are your views on non-AFL football leagues.

But when you tell us to cut our own hearts out and like it... well you just come across as a badly spoiled child... which, in essence, any expansion club is.

That's why you still have Mark Williams coaching.

 

[Carey_is_King]

Mr Ripper,

Bite me.

------------------
Trample the Weak,
Hurdle the Dead.

 

[iron mike]

hey mr ripper,

if it such a good idea

why not write one of your boring, stupid crappy tunes?

bore us all to death!

 

[Port Adelaide 1870]

Originally posted by Hawkforce.:


That aint gonna happen. Just as no matter how much you post, PA 1870, are we going to accept that the decline of the SANFL or the WAFL, represents a tragedy on the level of what happened to Fitzroy.


Hawkforce,

I fully understand the passion behind your reply and acknowledge completely your sentiment.

The above quote saddens me...... As it shows a distincly Melbourne suburban point of view with a total disregard for anything outside of it.

The demise of Fitzroy was tragic....but no more tragic than the demise of West Torrens......No more, given the membership and support of Fitzroy...the amount of people affected would not have been much greater than those that supported West Torrens....first hand.

Fitzroy fell because of Fitzroy......Woodville and West Torrens fell because of the VFL..../....AFL.


LET ME REPEAT I AM NOT AN ADVOCATE OF MELBOURNE CLUBS FALLING OVER.

What I am saying is ( similar to your words Hawk ) dont come to people interstate to relocate Melbourne based clubs and expect " hands to feed " them as they will feel the inevitable....that is an in built resentment to clubs that were part of an organization that ACTIVELY worked to bring about the demise of Australian rules football in states outside of Victoria to usurp them with VFL /AFL football.

I love Melbourne, I love visiting the city, I have many relatives in Melbourne, I enjoy football there. I enjoy AFL football.

I believe that the Tragedy of the crippling of interstate leagues, the injuries and fatal heamorraging that has occured to them and inflicted by the VFL, is in effect far more tragic than the demise of Fitzroy....

When Fitzroy fell over I felt sorry.................

More Melbourne clubs will go ...despite the money coming in from television.


The AFL will be clinically professional, it will not extend cash to ailing clubs.

The premise will be, the club must be totally self sufficient before we extend more money.....The Clubs will scream ..."Hey, but we need extra to run so we can become self sufficient ".....

The AFL will do a Fitzroy to ailing Melbourne clubs.....

Why...Why...do you think the Kangaroos are running all around the country side to find a new home with the fervour they are ???? they are fearful they will be the next Fitzroy.


As CIK says he'll just wave bye bye to them.....

Eventually we will have a sleek strong professional AFL that truly represents Australian football in Australia....not a league that represents Melbourne Business and sports interests.

Port Adelaide never begged to get into the VFL or AFL Hawkforce....

They were invited to join the VFL on several occassions along with Norwood .

Fitzroy were mercifully killed by the AFL for one reason alone....to let Port Adelaide in...
Nothing to do with begging...slaying your own to allow more powerful outsiders in.

The AFL will continue to hang its own clubs upside down then slit their throats when the need takes place.


The same as they did to WA and SA football.

Hawkforce all i am representing is a point of view, I am not foolish enough to believe it will change minds, however as new info comes to hand I like to share it..I know it goes against the grain on many occasions, but I like to see opposing points of view as well

Fare well

Long live Hawthorn !

PA1870

The SANFL celebrated its centenary in 1977

 

[Port Adelaide 1870]

Originally posted by sandie:
pa1870
You say you don't want to see any vic clubs fold, how come then you are constantly coming out with these posts. Strange how it is always supporters of interstate clubs sprouting this shit. I know it would make it easier for you interstate clubs to actually do well, if the stronger Victorian clubs didn't exist. Try beating us on your own merits, not by eliminating your opposition. Even the pies could do well if a few top Vic sides disappeared.

Sandie who is 'us" ?

I am a not an interstate supporter ?
I am a supporter of an AFL club ? it is not based in Melbourne ? it is based in Adelaide which is not interstate from where I live............

What is your assertion by calling me an interstate club supporter ?

I didnt say I wouldnt like to see Victorian based clubs fold , however I am not advocating that they do, I will have as much sympathy for it happenning as let say an Essendon supporter did when Woodville fell over...thats all.


Go Bombers !

PA1870

 

[Gonzo]

Originally posted by Port Adelaide 1870:


Fitzroy fell because of Fitzroy......Woodville and West Torrens fell because of the VFL..../....AFL.

and then:

Fitzroy were mercifully killed by the AFL for one reason alone....to let Port Adelaide in...

PA 1870

well which one is it then??

Cheers

Gonzo

[This message has been edited by Gonzo (edited 10 January 2001).]

 

[TigerTank]

Originally posted by Hawkforce.:
Why shouldn't Collingwood or perhaps Richmond be sacrificed for the benefit of their longsuffering supporters future children?

The "real" Hawkforce,

Now you see why it is a good idea to register.

You seem a bright chap who usually posts well thought out ideas.

See above - some idiot with sh!t-fer-brains has posted some completely unintelligent drivel and put it to your name.

They are obviously trying to humiliate you by writing utter crap that would do little credit to even a ******ed troll.

It is obvious to me that no one with a brain would even think to throw out two of the three most watched clubs in the country.

I hope this troglodyte ceases posting moronic garbage under your name.

Yours faithfully,

------------------
TT - Obligatory bad-tempered Richmond supporter

 

[Asgardian]

Originally posted by iron mike:
hey mr ripper,

if it such a good idea

why not write one of your boring, stupid crappy tunes?

bore us all to death!

Iron Mike,

Mr Ripper uses intelligence and humour to entertain us, and still make some valid football points.

What do you do Iron Mike, apart from be negative?

I guess you are a card carrying member of the Troll Brigade



------------------
Chris

 

[Hawkforce.]

He he... I thought that might get to you, TT.

You will have noticed I finished that thought by acknowledging that it will not happen. Nor do I wish it to happen.

Just pointing out that if North had had a period of success like they have recently, but in the 50's, they probably would not be in the circumstances they are in now.

Now they are enjoying the type of success that creates a large support-base. Is it any wonder that their fans feel aggrieved to be the target of indifference and jealousy from supporters of Clubs whose achievements in the last 20 years have been mediocre at best?

Surely the final straw is to be told by supporters of interstate clubs, who have dominant and almost unassilable monopoly over their markets, that you have "failed" and should accept defeat.

Especially when those clubs can't fill a tinpot ground, despite having 37000 members!

PA1870 I am being fairly strong on this, not out of any dislike of AFL expansionism. Nor because I think what you are saying is bollocks.

Nor am I having a go at Port. Your posts have provided valuable insight into their history and culture, and I think they are a great addition to the league.

I just wanted to get your attention because I think you are missing the point at how patronising your post comes across as - when veiwed from the other side of the coin.

On the field North are setting the basis for the kind of dynasty that makes legends of clubs.

Off the field they are trying everything possible to ride out the financial storm so that they can make good on their success.

And yet there is a growing number of football fans who scorn them for the effort!

There, but for the grace of God, go I.

This is not mindless protection of Melbourne's dominance of the AFL. It is grief and anger that the mmost professional CLub in the country will be sacrificed to feed the mediocre.

we all know the way football is heading. There is no need to rub our faces in it.

 

[Daphne]

As a Kangaroo supporter I would have to say that I never can understand why we are supposed to accept the Interstate sides with excitement when we can only go to the games here in Melb when we are playing them and there we see our smallest crowds ever, the lack of atmosphere is appalling and we are told that no one turns up for these games against us, some say that we cant draw crowds, I say that the Interstate sides wont make the trip over as they know that the Kangas will trounce them especially Port.

 

[Mr Ripper]

iron mike demanded my attention:
hey mr ripper,

if it such a good idea

why not write one of your boring, stupid crappy tunes?

bore us all to death!

Errrm, if what is such a good idea?

 

[Mr Ripper]

Carey_is_King (Judas) requested:
Mr Ripper,

Bite me.

Sorry, don't like bitter food.

 

[carb70]

Originally posted by Port Adelaide 1870:

Sandie who is 'us" ?


I am a not an interstate supporter ?
I am a supporter of an AFL club ? it is not based in Melbourne ? it is based in Adelaide which is not interstate from where I live............


What is your assertion by calling me an interstate club supporter ?


PA1870

Beatifully put PA1870 , myself being a Port supporter also, I believe Port plays matches against 14 interstate clubs not 5.

Its time the Vics understood this isn't their VFL comp from 20 years ago, its now the AFL a national comp.

While they have ever reason just like myself to love their clubs its time sacrifices where made. I used to love watching Port play games against Norwood & Glenelg with crowds up to 30,000 people but today if you get a crowd of 5,000 it a blockbuster game in the SANFL. As for West Torrens I have always lived close to Thebarton oval and their was nothing more exciting for me as a child walking to Thebarton oval to watch the Eagles play my beloved Magpies, but those days are sadly gone. All us people in SA & WA have made sacrifices for the AFL. We had no other choice it was either join or just watch football die in our states. Well sorry Victoria its your turn now.

I truly believe Essendon is the only Victorian club that believes they are playing in a national comp and they are planning for the future not living in the past. No matter how strong a tradition is nothing last for ever. Sad but true.

 

[Carey_is_King]

Mr Ripper retorted:
Sorry, don't like bitter food.

Hmm, you Briswhine fans are bitter enough already aren't you ?



------------------
Trample the Weak,
Hurdle the Dead.

 

[Shinboners]

Originally posted by carb70:
I truly believe Essendon is the only Victorian club that believes they are playing in a national comp and they are planning for the future not living in the past.

On what grounds do you make that statement? Last time I checked, all the Victorian clubs played games outside of Victoria, planned their recruitment to include non-Victorians (ironically enough, nearly everyone Essendon has drafted in the last couple of years has been Victorian born and bred), and in the case of North Melbourne (and followed by the Doggies and Melbourne) have played home games outside of Victoria.

But if you claim that Victorian clubs are living in the past, then we must be doing something right.....7 of the top 8 clubs last season were Victorian clubs.

 

[Carey_is_King]

Mr Ripper retorted:
Sorry, don't like bitter food.

Hmm, you Briswhine fans are bitter enough already aren't you ?



------------------
Trample the Weak,
Hurdle the Dead.