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Sirensgate

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blaze036 said:
Umpires could be running after a breakaway and forgot to check their watch for 5-10 seconds, siren is far more accurate, but not perfect.
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The AFL rule may be when the umpires whistle blows but this is actually so far from the truth it's embarrassing.

I give you an example from the StK GC game today. I think it was late in the 2nd quarter (may be wrong), only a few seconds left O'Meara was running to the 50 and just before he kicked long the siren sounded, and his shot went through for a behind. Now everyone (including Jaeger) heard the siren and knew the score wouldn't count, BUT on replay of the incident, the umpires whistle actually clearly came after he kicked the ball. So going by the official rules that people claim to be 'correct', shouldn't his score have counted? Yes, but it didn't. There have been numerous times over the years that this has happened but people heard the siren and believe that to be the end of the quarter.

Now this is obviously an issue whether you agree it is or not. Either the rule needs to be changed or the umpires whistle has to be enforced. How can there be such a grey area in a multi-billion dollar industry? Don't forget gambling is highly regulated yet amateur occurrences like this still take place.

It is honestly a farce. I respect you like to come on here with your cape and tell us all that the incident on Thursday night had no bearing (which I agree), and that we should pipe down, but this is an absolute joke.
 
Crooked Girth said:
The AFL rule may be when the umpires whistle blows but this is actually so far from the truth it's embarrassing.

I give you an example from the StK GC game today. I think it was late in the 2nd quarter (may be wrong), only a few seconds left O'Meara was running to the 50 and just before he kicked long the siren sounded, and his shot went through for a behind. Now everyone (including Jaeger) heard the siren and knew the score wouldn't count, BUT on replay of the incident, the umpires whistle actually clearly came after he kicked the ball. So going by the official rules that people claim to be 'correct', shouldn't his score have counted? Yes, but it didn't. There have been numerous times over the years that this has happened but people heard the siren and believe that to be the end of the quarter.

Now this is obviously an issue whether you agree it is or not. Either the rule needs to be changed or the umpires whistle has to be enforced. How can there be such a grey area in a multi-billion dollar industry? Don't forget gambling is highly regulated yet amateur occurrences like this still take place.

It is honestly a farce. I respect you like to come on here with your cape and tell us all that the incident on Thursday night had no bearing (which I agree), and that we should pipe down, but this is an absolute joke.
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Like I said above: the rule is when the umpire hears the siren. Naturally he's going to be delayed in blowing the whistle.

Quite simple, if he kicks it after the siren, the umpire just disallows the goal if he hears it in time.
 
SuperSub17 said:
Like I said above: the rule is when the umpire hears the siren. Naturally he's going to be delayed in blowing the whistle.

Quite simple, if he kicks it after the siren, the umpire just disallows the goal if he hears it in time.
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Exactly, so why do people say it's when the umpire blows his whistle?
 
Crooked Girth said:
Exactly, so why do people say it's when the umpire blows his whistle?
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No idea, it's quite embarrassing really that the media continues to do it.

But what you said here:
Now this is obviously an issue whether you agree it is or not. Either the rule needs to be changed or the umpires whistle has to be enforced. How can there be such a grey area in a multi-billion dollar industry? Don't forget gambling is highly regulated yet amateur occurrences like this still take place.
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There is no grey area, the umpire's whistle doesn't need to be enforced because that's not what the rule says.

Anyway, there needs to be a way to go back to the tape and find when the siren went so they can review it.
 

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SuperSub17 said:
No idea, it's quite embarrassing really that the media continues to do it.

But what you said here:

There is no grey area, the umpire's whistle doesn't need to be enforced because that's not what the rule says.

Anyway, there needs to be a way to go back to the tape and find when the siren went so they can review it.
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Well then I am sick of people saying it is the umpires whistle. Simple solution, put a big red light up behind both goals, when official clock hits 0:00, light goes on. If there is a tight call review footage to see if kick or light occurred first. ala NBA. Simple.
 
Has anyone actually said that they heard the siren? Maybe it didn't go off....for some reason.
 
SuperSub17 said:
I've always thought this doesn't make any sense though. When the umpires can't hear the siren this falls apart, we lost the 1980 night GF because of this.

There has to be a way to go back to the tape and find when the siren sounds
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I would suggest a cattle prod electrode hard wired into every maggot and synched to the siren to goose them when it goes off :)
 
As I've said elsewhere, the solution is very simple. All that is needed is to have the official time shown on the screen for the reviewing umpire and make it count down in hundredths if necessary. Obviously the rule would need to be modified so that the quarter is over when the clock counts down to 0:00.00 but that shouldn't be a big deal. Lights on the goal posts will only work if the goalposts are in view of the camera at the appropriate moment.

For the record, nobody can say what the effect of that goal was on the outcome even though most of us are happy to concede that it was not the thing which defined the result. The reality is that momentum has an effect in footy and always has. Bucks himself alluded to this. Happy to accept that we didn't deserve to win but the comment that things like this do not have an effect are not factually correct.
 
PieNSauce said:
As I've said elsewhere, the solution is very simple. All that is needed is to have the official time shown on the screen for the reviewing umpire and make it count down in hundredths if necessary. Obviously the rule would need to be modified so that the quarter is over when the clock counts down to 0:00.00 but that shouldn't be a big deal. Lights on the goal posts will only work if the goalposts are in view of the camera at the appropriate moment.

For the record, nobody can say what the effect of that goal was on the outcome even though most of us are happy to concede that it was not the thing which defined the result. The reality is that momentum has an effect in footy and always has. Bucks himself alluded to this. Happy to accept that we didn't deserve to win but the comment that things like this do not have an effect are not factually correct.
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I like the idea of the countdown clock. Seems a no brainer, which is probably why the AFL haven't done it. Also think it would be great if the goal posts turned red as soon as the countdown hit zero. Inidents like this simply should not happen in this day and age.
 
jmac70 said:
I like the idea of the countdown clock. Seems a no brainer, which is probably why the AFL haven't done it. Also think it would be great if the goal posts turned red as soon as the countdown hit zero. Inidents like this simply should not happen in this day and age.
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It blows me away that there's such a simple fix and yet this crap has been happening for so long. I also have to laugh at posters in the equivalent thread on the main board suggesting that Collingwood supporters are complaining about the goal in the Adelaide game. Seriously, I don't think I've read a single post suggesting that the result would have been much different if the goal was disallowed. BF somethimes is just a haven for trolls.
 
jmac70 said:
Has anyone actually said that they heard the siren? Maybe it didn't go off....for some reason.
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I heard it before Jenkins Kicked it on the Replay
 
I thought that in the past when we had this problem, umpires could hear the siren through an ear plug? Perhaps they need and electric buzzer/vibrator (no jokes) in their pocket as well.
 

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Maggie5 said:
I thought that in the past when we had this problem, umpires could hear the siren through an ear plug? Perhaps they need and electric buzzer/vibrator (no jokes) in their pocket as well.
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Like I said above, why complicate it by adding electrical appliances etc which will likely only partially resolve it? The answer is so simple it defies belief that they haven't done it.
 
What is more disturbing for me is the boundary umps had heard it and told the central ump (curly haired dude) the review went upstairs, umps mics working fine, then when the upstairs ump came back with "um, we haven't got the siren" miraculously the umps microphones cut out. What was channel 7 or the afl trying to not let us hear?
Now as others have said it wasn't the reason why we lost but surely in this day and age we can get something simple like this right.
Now in 2006 when the umps didn't hear the siren with freo up by a point and st kilda kicked a point to level the scores, the afl ruled that the game was a win to freo, even though the rule says play continues till the umpire hears the siren. That was embarrassing enough but you'd think 8 years on these sorts of basic errors could get totally eradicated from a professional sport code.
 
GETSOMENUTS said:
What is more disturbing for me is the boundary umps had heard it and told the central ump (curly haired dude) the review went upstairs, umps mics working fine, then when the upstairs ump came back with "um, we haven't got the siren" miraculously the umps microphones cut out. What was channel 7 or the afl trying to not let us hear?
Now as others have said it wasn't the reason why we lost but surely in this day and age we can get something simple like this right.
Now in 2006 when the umps didn't hear the siren with freo up by a point and st kilda kicked a point to level the scores, the afl ruled that the game was a win to freo, even though the rule says play continues till the umpire hears the siren. That was embarrassing enough but you'd think 8 years on these sorts of basic errors could get totally eradicated from a professional sport code.
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2006 says it all GSN the AFL disregarded their own rules to give the expansion club the win.
 
PieNSauce said:
Like I said above, why complicate it by adding electrical appliances etc which will likely only partially resolve it? The answer is so simple it defies belief that they haven't done it.
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Not saying you idea isn't a good one but thought that these extra measures, might also help.
IMO the goal didn't make any difference to the end result.
 
Maggie5 said:
Not saying you idea isn't a good one but thought that these extra measures, might also help.
IMO the goal didn't make any difference to the end result.
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No it was not the defining element I agree but the issue is far broader IMO. We can only imagine what would happen in a GF if the result hinged on such a call. To my way of thinking, the closest you will get to a perfect solution is to show the clock on screen and modify the rule. 9 times out of 10 that fixes it!
 
jmac70 said:
Good point TD. When the siren sounds the players stop, they don't keep playing until the umpire signals it. According to the folks at the Adelaide Oval the siren there is louder than normal. I'm calling BS on that.
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I'm with you... The Adelaide Oval siren is louder, just the same as the TV Ads are the same volume as the shows!!!!
 

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jonbe54 said:
2006 says it all GSN the AFL disregarded their own rules to give the expansion club the win.
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Not really, the rule says the timekeeper must blow the siren until the umpire hears it. Since he didn't do this they had to decide the game themselves. The fair result was that Freo won as they were in front when the siren sounded.
 

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