Six new Faces

[winalotroos]

Well it has happened. Clarke is out and Gibbo is in. Up the ante boys and girls.

Obviously the other two out are Durdin and EVW.

I am in shock if we are in a mini re build why play Gibbo over Clarke.

 

[Firestarter]

I am in shock if we are in a mini re build why play Gibbo over Clarke.

We're already playing six new players including four brand new ones. That's over a quarter of a gameday squad. What else do you want?

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

That would be great but if they can't do the rest to AFL standard they become a far greater liability than someone who shanks the ball 3 times a game.

Surely those are all parts of the game that can be learnt quite quickly if given the right coaching and development.

 

[Firestarter]

Surely those are all parts of the game that can be learnt quite quickly if given the right coaching and development.

Well yknow. Just ask Greenwood.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

Well yknow. Just ask Greenwood.

He was never a wingman.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Surely those are all parts of the game that can be learnt quite quickly if given the right coaching and development.

You would think so but apparently not in the case of Bread. It depends on the ability of the player to keep their head in the game whislt running full bore for two hours. Maybe Hibberd is the guy

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

You would think so but apparently not in the case of Bread. It depends on the ability of the player to keep their head in the game whislt running full bore for two hours. Maybe Hibberd is the guy

Bread wasn't ever fit enough to play that role.

Plus he thinks waaaaaaay to slowly.

 

[Ischenko]

I would take Trent Nicholls, Justin Staristki, Jason Daniltchenko, Warren Campbell & Gary Dhurkay over this turkey any day of the week.

Loved him as a 12 year old in '96 for some reason. Averaged 9 touches, 2 marks, 1.2 and 2 tackles in his 13 games that year. Perhaps the floppy blond hair and 'exotic' name. Ahhh the barely remembered memories.

 

[The chorus]

There are no words, Horace and Pete.

Thank goodness!!

 

[winalotroos]

We're already playing six new players including four brand new ones. That's over a quarter of a gameday squad. What else do you want?

I would like to see us move forward, Clarke unless injured should be playing.

 

[The Other Dean]

As TOD won't be awake to read this until 3am tomorrow, I'll bite.

Way to exaggerate, Hearts. It's only just gone 2.30.

It's a carefully planned strategy. I'm the BF equivalent of that annoying housemate who stumbles through the door in the early hours, makes a mess in the kitchen, and then leaves the dirty dishes for his housemates to clean up.

 

[The Other Dean]

Are you happy that if Gibbo is selected, it could be at the expense of young Ryan Clarke?

Sigh. For starters, like Hearts, in most cases (including this one) I don't subscribe to this 'Player X vs Player Y' stuff that Bigfooty seems so fond of. Selection is a far more complex and nuanced beast than that.

For the record, I'm all about the team winning. And until provided with some meaningful evidence to the contrary, I am going to assume that the coaching staff wish to do likewise. I don't believe in tanking, and it is not a course of action that the club has seen fit to pursue in the past. Given what transpired at the conclusion of last season, having 'six new faces' in the side for Round 1 of this season does not present as any kind of compelling evidence that we are tanking. It is to a large degree borne of necessity (and legitimately based on merit). And the strategic selection of Lachie, for example, would seem to point to a desire to win.

I'm not sure why people view the responsible development of youth and winning/fielding our best side as two separate entities. It is limited thinking. And generally speaking, the best way to develop youth is in a winning culture, with young talent buffeted and guided by some more experienced heads.

And to repeat something I have said that you seem intent on ignoring whenever I post it, I know as well as anyone that Gibbo has his limitations. I've said it over and over and ****ing over again. I think he's unfairly maligned and his mistakes are blown out of all proportion by small-minded turnips, but the bottom line is that the moment that someone with less limitations can fill the same role, I will be celebrating that day along with everyone else. But that day has not yet arrived.

As Hearts has correctly noted, the club hasn't shown any aversion to playing Clarke in the past. So did you ever stop to think that there may be more to this picture than what your view from Bigfooty allows? Or was it easier just to have a whinge about it?

Let me ask you something, Arj - why is complaint and criticism your first port of call the moment you a confronted with something you don't understand? The intelligent mind tries to expand its parameters, look into something a little deeper, and will perhaps attempt to approach things from a different angle in the hope of making rational sense of it all. Whereas the stunted, immature mind immediately shuts down and goes straight into outrage and hissy fit mode.

And to think this ass bandit got a contract and boomer didn't.

Homophobic slurs.

Stay classy, Arj.

There is no doubt about this. I'm absolutely clueless when it comes to him....

Yeah, no s**t.

 

[The Other Dean]

Why don’t you ask me if I would like to bang Ana Ivanovic? Sure I would, but while my missus ain’t no Miss Universe I certainly appreciate all the great things about her.

My take on the whole ‘Gibbo Out’ thing is that we as supporters place greatest value in what we see players do with the ball, so much so that we rarely, if ever see the negatives of a great attacking player unless they are ******* blatant.

I think an appropriate analogy is that of the iceberg. We see the tip, the bits we are focussed on and determine the size and value of a thing based upon that. With a player playing his role within the team the coaches see the whole iceberg. I have been lucky enough to get into a few huddles over my time and have listened to coaches talking to their mids about what is working, what isn’t ect. I have also listened to Gibbo talk to his younger team mates about what it is they have to do when playing on the wing and this is far more complex that shanking a ball out on the full or hitting a leading forward on the tit.

Referring to my previous post, it is the ability to peel off into space when you see the team win possession in the D50 so as to get loose and get the overlap. It is the ability to know when to push in to the guts when you notice the mids are about to get outflanked in that sector. It is the ability to see your arse exposed because Atley has gone for a dash and there is a mountain of space behind him just waiting to be exploited, so you’d better cover off. These things more than make up for his occasionally poor but generally average disposal because they save us goals. They relieve pressure and stop opposition getting out the back.

He ain’t a great player, but he is a great role player. Sure, it would be fantastic if we can replace him with a guy who can kick like a laser, but there is a reason why Bread McKenzie couldn’t do it, and it ain’t anything to do with Kodak. If Hibberd can get there, super. Clarke even. Or Ahern. But they are all a ways off it at this stage. IMO.

Nailed it. Brilliant post.

Saying that, it can't possibly hope to compete with those erudite, single-sentence posts about how he's crap and he can't kick good.

 

[The Other Dean]

I would like to see us move forward.

We clearly are.

A single selection decision on any given week doesn't equate to a 'case against'.

 

[SonofSamsquanch]

@gasso... everybody getting edgy and imploding. Maybe worth going early on the game day thread to focus the team on the opponent instead of each other?

 

[Hojuman]

@gasso... everybody getting edgy and imploding. Maybe worth going early on the game day thread to focus the team on the opponent instead of each other?

Gaso premature ejaculation of the game day thread ?

Turn it up Sonof !

 

[goalieboy82]

one for face and:

 

[Pep Fraudiola]

I accept that it's the correct call to play him this week, but, immature or otherwise I struggle to see how selecting him over Clarke is the correct call. I guess I don't see it lessening our chances of winning in any way, which after all is the only thing any of us victims want... As difficult as that may be to comprehend, given the difference of opinion of the output of individual players. Now I'm not Clarkes biggest fan nor am i that devastated but it doesnt change the fact that on form, he deserves a crack ahead of gibson and I also think Durdo should be playing ahead of Hansen.

And not simply because they are younger, but because they are in better form.

 

[The Other Dean]

I accept that it's the correct call to play him this week, but, immature or otherwise I struggle to see how selecting him over Clarke is the correct call. I guess I don't see it lessening our chances of winning in any way, which after all is the only thing any of us victims want... As difficult as that may be to comprehend, given the difference of opinion of the output of individual players. Now I'm not Clarkes biggest fan nor am i that devastated but it doesnt change the fact that on form, he deserves a crack ahead of gibson and I also think Durdo should be playing ahead of Hansen.

And not simply because they are younger, but because they are in better form.

Assume this was largely for my benefit.

Again, it is not a case of 'Player X ahead of Player Y'. That is an exceptionally simplistic take on selection.

Gibson finished last season in good form and snared a third place in the Syd. He played a half of the first JLT game essentially to prove his fitness, and picked up more touches in that half than most of the guys who played a full game. (But of course he butchered a few of those touches...like pretty much every other player else out there.) He was then rested for the second JLT game. (Did this not send off alarm bells for you? I'm generalising here, but what kind of fit, senior players are often rested for a JLT game or two? Answer - guys that are for all intents and purposes guaranteed a Round 1 spot.) He then played the third JLT fixture and, speaking as someone who studied that game with a fine tooth comb (and posted my reflections in a lengthy post here on this forum), he was a helluva lot more solid than the anti-Gibbo revisionists would have you believe.

But again, don't interpret me saying any of that as me buying into this 'Player X>Player Y' crap. Because I'm not. And it's secondary to the point that I'm trying to make to you.

Momentarily leave your obsession with Gibbo aside and focus on Clarke. If you are struggling to comprehend why he was left out of the side, as I said in my previous post, you then look for reasons that would perhaps help to explain it. Is he carrying a niggle?....is his non-selection purely strategic (on a level that may not be readily apparent) and he will go on to play every other game this year?....will he perhaps come in as a late change? Things of that nature. Granted this approach can require some patience, but if you are a person that doesn't happen to be in a position where inside information is readily available to you, this would seem to be a fairly logical and reasonable progression of thought, rather than just jumping straight to "club is wrong on this one", "Gibbo's fault", etc, etc. Which doesn't exactly show a great deal of imagination.

 

[Hojuman]

Assume this was largely for my benefit.

Again, it is not a case of 'Player X ahead of Player Y'. That is an exceptionally simplistic take on selection.

Gibson finished last season in good form and snared a third place in the Syd. He played a half of the first JLT game essentially to prove his fitness, and picked up more touches in that half than most of the guys who played a full game. (But of course he butchered a few of those touches...like pretty much every other player else out there.) He was then rested for the second JLT game. (Did this not send off alarm bells for you? I'm generalising here, but what kind of fit, senior players are often rested for a JLT game or two? Answer - guys that are for all intents and purposes guaranteed a Round 1 spot.) He then played the third JLT fixture and, speaking as someone who studied that game with a fine tooth comb (and posted my reflections in a lengthy post here on this forum), he was a helluva lot more solid than the anti-Gibbo revisionists would have you believe.

But again, don't interpret me saying any of that as me buying into this 'Player X>Player Y' crap. Because I'm not. And it's secondary to the point that I'm trying to make to you.

Momentarily leave your obsession with Gibbo aside and focus on Clarke. If you are struggling to comprehend why he was left out of the side, as I said in my previous post, you then look for reasons that would perhaps help to explain it. Is he carrying a niggle?....is his non-selection purely strategic (on a level that may not be readily apparent) and he will go on to play every other game this year?....will he perhaps come in as a late change? Things of that nature. Granted this approach can require some patience, but if you are a person that doesn't happen to be in a position where inside information is readily available to you, this would seem to be a fairly logical and reasonable progression of thought, rather than just jumping straight to "club is wrong on this one", "Gibbo's fault", etc, etc. Which doesn't exactly show a great deal of imagination.

Ockam's razor T.O.D.

 

[astrovic]

Loved him as a 12 year old in '96 for some reason. Averaged 9 touches, 2 marks, 1.2 and 2 tackles in his 13 games that year. Perhaps the floppy blond hair and 'exotic' name. Ahhh the barely remembered memories.

And those 2 marks came from 8 attempted marks of the year.

 

[kaboom kid]

Nailed it. Brilliant post.

Saying that, it can't possibly hope to compete with those erudite, single-sentence posts about how he's crap and he can't kick good.

Magnificent work from BTron......I liken Gibbo to a Russian chess master....carefully and skilfulling manoeuvring himself around the field in order to make our game plan work..Always thinking two or three moves ahead. One of the games more cerebral players. Most of the posters are caught up with his ugly kicking style but that's only one aspect of his play. Largely his kicking is effective and he is a great set shot for goal. But where he really excels is his defensive running and positioning, stifling the oppositions rapid transition. That's the reason Boomer got delisted and Gibbo didn't. Clarke is a capable understudy and he may well overtake Gibbo in time but he has a lot to learn from the great man....