Review Six SA Players taken in the draft, something needs to change......

[Pdub]

It's an easy fix for the AFL, they can fix this and fix the issue of the northern academies at the same time.

Just give the SA and WA teams academies, adjust the draft discount % to reflect the talent that is generated in these states vs NSW & QLD. If all the non-vic clubs are taking players from their home state, then the Vic clubs will be left with more Victorian kids to pick from. No one complains about the academies, and the clubs become more involved in growing the game in their state.

 

[Messiah]

Can't recall too many players coming from WA this draft either, despite it being incredibly deep. And last year was really lacking for WA players.

Certainly concerns outside of AFL love child states

I suspect the AFL recruiters have it wrong. To me they obviously have a huge bias towards Vic kids.
If I am right I'd expect the probability of succeeding at AFL level to be lower for Vic kids than from other states.
(players are picked because they played in TAC not based on their ability)
If someone can be bothered I'd be interested to see an analysis of this.
eg. average number of games played vs state of origin for kids from main draft.
(Most clubs load up on rookies from same state so rookies should be excluded)

 

[ad victoriam]

The AFL have pseudo control anyway, via funding, and have had since they gave the SANFL an ultimatum on funding when they forced us to scrap the u17/19 system. The problem is that the current pathways are a mishmash of previous systems that have been shoehorned together to fit the AFL development pathway, which is just a carry over from VFL days.

I dont want the AFL to control our Junior development, but the simple fact is they have a vested interest and should kick in. There's not enough $$ generated locally to support a development system that produces good quality AFL players. If I had a chance to design the "perfect" system, it would be something like:

• SANFL development programs scrapped.
• State based "Academy", from u15 upwards.
• Academy League at U16 and U18 - 6 teams based on location
• SANFL teams participate in a draft for those U18 kids not taken at AFL draft

You could include Div1 Colleges in that league, or you could negotiate the colleges to play wednesdays, so the Academy kids could also play State Academy games.

Ideally, I'd rather see the draft age lifted to 19 or even 20, and shift the age groups at junior development level accordingly. 17-18 is far too young to make a call on a kid, and so many kids are lost to the system because of the current draft age. But I know that will never happen.

Like the Idea, really like the SANFL draft, not too sure whether the romantic idealists who support the idea of playing for the club you support will agree, But hey I am a Central supporter and we have not had an under 18 side worth a spit in years.
The only problem I see is the Age while I like the Idea of older Kids in the draft, I am against the so-called education Gap year, will we force kids into forgoing Uni in the hope of getting drafted, or will force a deal with Uni's to allow Kids to transfer their courses from state to state.
But one thing is very clear our current system is not helping the SA based Kids develop. And we are starting to see the effect in the SANFL.

 

[DJ75]

I see a lot of debate over the school/club footy issue. As some will know I keep a close eye on the school footy.
Here is the way I see it.

In Victoria, there is a ruling that only allows the boys to play a set number of games across the season - this includes school, club and state. The very best players mix their school and club football quite well. The reason this works is that both sets realise it is in the best interests of the boys to play a mixture. The Schools dictate for the most part which games they want them for (shield and major rival matches) and then release them for the rest. The TAC clubs are ok with this and work well (mostly) with the schools to ensure they are exposed in a way that maximises their chances of being seen and hence drafted.

The TAC cup teams look mostly at how many players they get drafted, not how many premierships they have won. This is a big difference to the SANFL.

In SA there is no agreement on how many games a boy can play and who has the boys best interests at heart is very hit and miss. The boys are pulled this way and that way by both schools and clubs and it can be incredibly difficult for the boys to juggle. Unfortunately I have seen both sides be unbelievably selfish in their wants and destroy a boys chances as a consequence.

The biggest issue is that the SANFL clubs are interested in winning primarily. The focus they put on winning an U18 premiership is ridiculous and detrimental to the boys. This year we have seen a guy like Hayward play Forward, Middle and Back for his school team, but play as a deep forward primarily for North Adelaide. He shot up the draft board after being pushed to a wing in the all-stars game and demonstrating his ability there.

This issue is compounded by Sticks who places winning over development and exposure. It's not a myth, I've seen it happen over and over again. Sticks selects his team based on winning. He selects the solid, 'know what I will get type' ahead of the 'could be' type at all times. Scharenberg for instance was a solid mid. Everyone knew what he could do there and what his strengths/weaknesses were. Sticks could have pushed him forward and let him develop and demonstrate some forward ability (like a Taranto for instance) and had this worked, he would have been drafted. He could have put Hayward in the middle, but opted to leave him as a deep forward and hence limit him to 7 disposals per game. The SANFL is still trying to convince themselves that they are one of the best footy areas in the country and they think winning the National titles will do this. Unfortunately winning twice in 20 odd years and having very few drafted is convincing nobody. The SANFL are too stubborn to see the bigger picture. It is a selfish approach.

Essentially the issue won't be fixed until the SANFL dictate a change to the clubs, or the AFL takes over the U18 competition. Until development becomes the focus of the clubs, it will not change. I know that many schools have felt 'burnt' by the SANFL clubs and refuse to negotiate or discuss with them, leaving the boys in a really difficult position. Once the change is clear though, and the schools feel boys interests are put above the clubs, the schools will be more flexible.

 

[marty36]

I see a lot of debate over the school/club footy issue. As some will know I keep a close eye on the school footy.
Here is the way I see it.

In Victoria, there is a ruling that only allows the boys to play a set number of games across the season - this includes school, club and state. The very best players mix their school and club football quite well. The reason this works is that both sets realise it is in the best interests of the boys to play a mixture. The Schools dictate for the most part which games they want them for (shield and major rival matches) and then release them for the rest. The TAC clubs are ok with this and work well (mostly) with the schools to ensure they are exposed in a way that maximises their chances of being seen and hence drafted.

The TAC cup teams look mostly at how many players they get drafted, not how many premierships they have won. This is a big difference to the SANFL.

In SA there is no agreement on how many games a boy can play and who has the boys best interests at heart is very hit and miss. The boys are pulled this way and that way by both schools and clubs and it can be incredibly difficult for the boys to juggle. Unfortunately I have seen both sides be unbelievably selfish in their wants and destroy a boys chances as a consequence.

The biggest issue is that the SANFL clubs are interested in winning primarily. The focus they put on winning an U18 premiership is ridiculous and detrimental to the boys. This year we have seen a guy like Hayward play Forward, Middle and Back for his school team, but play as a deep forward primarily for North Adelaide. He shot up the draft board after being pushed to a wing in the all-stars game and demonstrating his ability there.

This issue is compounded by Sticks who places winning over development and exposure. It's not a myth, I've seen it happen over and over again. Sticks selects his team based on winning. He selects the solid, 'know what I will get type' ahead of the 'could be' type at all times. Scharenberg for instance was a solid mid. Everyone knew what he could do there and what his strengths/weaknesses were. Sticks could have pushed him forward and let him develop and demonstrate some forward ability (like a Taranto for instance) and had this worked, he would have been drafted. He could have put Hayward in the middle, but opted to leave him as a deep forward and hence limit him to 7 disposals per game. The SANFL is still trying to convince themselves that they are one of the best footy areas in the country and they think winning the National titles will do this. Unfortunately winning twice in 20 odd years and having very few drafted is convincing nobody. The SANFL are too stubborn to see the bigger picture. It is a selfish approach.

Essentially the issue won't be fixed until the SANFL dictate a change to the clubs, or the AFL takes over the U18 competition. Until development becomes the focus of the clubs, it will not change. I know that many schools have felt 'burnt' by the SANFL clubs and refuse to negotiate or discuss with them, leaving the boys in a really difficult position. Once the change is clear though, and the schools feel boys interests are put above the clubs, the schools will be more flexible.

Youre correct about the u18 comp but then again there are ramifications for giving control to the AFL considering how many kids get drafted

The SANFL is a strong comp considering the population difference between SA and Vic in relation to SANFL v VFL v WAFL v NEAFL . After all, only between 10 and 15 kids will make it to the AFL each year so the SANFL are catering to the masses rather than the elite few . This would be endorsed by the South Australian Government as its about the sport as a whole not just the elite few.

Probably why the government gave the rights to control AO to the SANFL and SACA, as its a state asset designed to benefit the people of south Australia not an elite few that the majority will leave the state.

 

[marty36]

It's an easy fix for the AFL, they can fix this and fix the issue of the northern academies at the same time.

Just give the SA and WA teams academies, adjust the draft discount % to reflect the talent that is generated in these states vs NSW & QLD. If all the non-vic clubs are taking players from their home state, then the Vic clubs will be left with more Victorian kids to pick from. No one complains about the academies, and the clubs become more involved in growing the game in their state.

Youre bringing to many handicaps into the comp they will need constant adjustment as there will be times that it favors some and others

The draft was supposed to be fair and equal unfortunatly the AFL see the majority of the population living in the northern states of Australia and need to capitilize on those states TV ratings by strenghening the teans unfairly

To be fair to all no acadamies straight draft, then you wont get any issues

 

[ad victoriam]

Youre correct about the u18 comp but then again there are ramifications for giving control to the AFL considering how many kids get drafted

The SANFL is a strong comp considering the population difference between SA and Vic in relation to SANFL v VFL v WAFL v NEAFL . After all, only between 10 and 15 kids will make it to the AFL each year so the SANFL are catering to the masses rather than the elite few . This would be endorsed by the South Australian Government as its about the sport as a whole not just the elite few.

Probably why the government gave the rights to control AO to the SANFL and SACA, as its a state asset designed to benefit the people of south Australia not an elite few that the majority will leave the state.

Only Problem is the SANFL are losing these kids after the under 18's, and its reflecting on the talent we see at the SANFL level, these days the only reason the SANFL keeps up with the VFL is due to the salary cap of the SANFL.

If the state had a better system for the under 16 and 18 they would keep more of these kids in the local comp, which is what we are seeing in the VFL.

 

[Squiba]

On top of what DJ said, I think the lack of enthusiasm to develop a player also effects who the league teams take in.

I've seen some absolute hacks taken by Norwood, kids that couldn't kick or find there own ball to save their lives. But they were fit, and that seemed to be what the coaches were looking for.

Some of the best talent we have, particularly in country areas, can be in the form of overweight lads with immense talent. But unlike Begley this year, who was developed as a midfielder, the SANFL clubs have no foresight to turn the 190cm, undersized yet heavy full forward into a midfielder.

One lad I've seen play would be 6ft 4 or more and a hefty 110kg or so, with fantastic hands, a booming kick, somehow still clean off the deck and on top of that he has terrific burst pace for someone so heavy. Yet he is still playing C grade because he can't be assed losing 20kg to play A's and the SANFL cbf developing him.

The SANFL look for easily conditioned talent, and fit traffic cones for them to train with. It isn't going to get enough people onto the big stage.

 

[marty36]

Only Problem is the SANFL are losing these kids after the under 18's, and its reflecting on the talent we see at the SANFL level, these days the only reason the SANFL keeps up with the VFL is due to the salary cap of the SANFL.

If the state had a better system for the under 16 and 18 they would keep more of these kids in the local comp, which is what we are seeing in the VFL.

No it wouldnt all sports lose stacks of kids, infact football with its local comps amatuer league and SANFL is so far ahead of any other sport at that age group holding onto boys, including soccer who has a larger participation rate in the younger grades its not funny.

The SANFL being the state league will never go short but the lesser leagues will but there arent that many clubs that have folded in the scheme of things over the years. Country leagues are battling but that isnt just sport thats retaining people living in those areas the grants you can get for running businesses in these towns is quite good in an effort to create employment

The fact they compete at all with a state league like Victoria that has a population 3 times the size of them is quite impressive. We all realise why NSW produce the cricketers it does with its wonderful participation rate and population.

 

[marty36]

On top of what DJ said, I think the lack of enthusiasm to develop a player also effects who the league teams take in.

I've seen some absolute hacks taken by Norwood, kids that couldn't kick or find there own ball to save their lives. But they were fit, and that seemed to be what the coaches were looking for.

Some of the best talent we have, particularly in country areas, can be in the form of overweight lads with immense talent. But unlike Begley this year, who was developed as a midfielder, the SANFL clubs have no foresight to turn the 190cm, undersized yet heavy full forward into a midfielder.

One lad I've seen play would be 6ft 4 or more and a hefty 110kg or so, with fantastic hands, a booming kick, somehow still clean off the deck and on top of that he has terrific burst pace for someone so heavy. Yet he is still playing C grade because he can't be added losing 20kg to play A's and the SANFL cbf developing him.

The SANFL look for easily conditioned talent, and fit traffic cones for them to train with. It isn't going to get enough people onto the big stage.

No different from any team, would the Noarlunga shoes promote one of their C graders in an effort to develop them or are their A Grade there to win the premiership and play players than can contribute?

 

[JPetro83]

Maybe a revamped under 18s comp that has coverage and in our faces.

 

[ad victoriam]

No it wouldnt all sports lose stacks of kids, infact football with its local comps amatuer league and SANFL is so far ahead of any other sport at that age group holding onto boys, including soccer who has a larger participation rate in the younger grades its not funny.

The SANFL being the state league will never go short but the lesser leagues will but there arent that many clubs that have folded in the scheme of things over the years. Country leagues are battling but that isnt just sport thats retaining people living in those areas the grants you can get for running businesses in these towns is quite good in an effort to create employment

The fact they compete at all with a state league like Victoria that has a population 3 times the size of them is quite impressive. We all realise why NSW produce the cricketers it does with its wonderful participation rate and population.

They are losing too many kids after the under 18's, I have been seeing the slow decline for the last 10 years. more are quitting football, only to come back after a few years to play ammo's and country. others are moving straight to the ammo's and country. there not play SANFL.
If these kids are developed better the retention from under 18's to the SANFL would be better.
Also, When was the last time all the SANFL teams were financial, If they had been Country teams they would have folded, The SANFL are propping up the SANFL clubs? They compete with the VFL by paying more for the players.

 

[marty36]

They are losing too many kids after the under 18's, I have been seeing the slow decline for the last 10 years. more are quitting football, only to come back after a few years to play ammo's and country. others are moving straight to the ammo's and country. there not play SANFL.
If these kids are developed better the retention from under 18's to the SANFL would be better.
Also, When was the last time all the SANFL teams were financial, If they had been Country teams they would have folded, The SANFL are propping up the SANFL clubs? They compete with the VFL by paying more for the players.

You do know who the SANFL is dont you? You say it is proping up the clubs, the SANFL is effectively the clubs its propping up! The SANFL commision is elected by the clubs to run the clubs competition as a collective ! As is the AFL and the AFL commision!

 

[marty36]

They are losing too many kids after the under 18's, I have been seeing the slow decline for the last 10 years. more are quitting football, only to come back after a few years to play ammo's and country. others are moving straight to the ammo's and country. there not play SANFL.
If these kids are developed better the retention from under 18's to the SANFL would be better.
Also, When was the last time all the SANFL teams were financial, If they had been Country teams they would have folded, The SANFL are propping up the SANFL clubs? They compete with the VFL by paying more for the players.

As I said theyre have been a few clubs fold but there have been other clubs commence in thsi state, its country areas which are suffering but similar in Vic with some of the small towns where population hs detoriated

 

[ad victoriam]

You do know who the SANFL is dont you? You say it is proping up the clubs, the SANFL is effectively the clubs its propping up! The SANFL commision is elected by the clubs to run the clubs competition as a collective ! As is the AFL and the AFL commision!

OK let play the word game, if the SANFL commission stops supporting clubs who are in financial difficulties and in some cases close to bankruptcy, some of these clubs would fold. Just like the country leagues, Do you think a successful financial SANFL clubs would be happy paying out money to constantly to keep another club financial?
And yes I understand the SANFL as I am there most weeks during the season. Listening to people who talk about an issue like this.

 

[DJ75]

No different from any team, would the Noarlunga shoes promote one of their C graders in an effort to develop them or are their A Grade there to win the premiership and play players than can contribute?

That is exactly the point. Whilst the U18 comes under the SANFL clubs, they will be played to win, just as Nourlunga Seniors would play to win.

The U18 comp however, should be more about development and drafting than winning.

The most ridiculous part of it is the clubs get money for each player drafted, but nothing for 'winning' an SANFL premiership. They are literally shooting themselves in the foot because they are too stubborn to accept that the SANFL is a minor competition and the SANFL U18's is completely irrelevant.

 

[marty36]

OK let play the word game, if the SANFL commission stops supporting clubs who are in financial difficulties and in some cases close to bankruptcy, some of these clubs would fold. Just like the country leagues, Do you think a successful financial SANFL clubs would be happy paying out money to constantly to keep another club financial?
And yes I understand the SANFL as I am there most weeks during the season. Listening to people who talk about an issue like this.

Your question about wanting to retain clubs, then the answer is yes they would, they may not see Port and Adelaide being only guests in the comp forever, there could be a AFL reseves comp who knows, that leaves 8 if two clubs fold that would make six, its very hard to operate a league with 6 clubs, so the financial assistance may be a means to an end. So the answer is yes I can see all clubs keeping the struggling ones alive to retan a competition, they are probably fairly safe for a number of years with the revenue stream from the governemnt or their asset, coupled with the proceeds of footy park

 

[marty36]

That is exactly the point. Whilst the U18 comes under the SANFL clubs, they will be played to win, just as Nourlunga Seniors would play to win.

The U18 comp however, should be more about development and drafting than winning.

The most ridiculous part of it is the clubs get money for each player drafted, but nothing for 'winning' an SANFL premiership. They are literally shooting themselves in the foot because they are too stubborn to accept that the SANFL is a minor competition and the SANFL U18's is completely irrelevant.

They know where they sit they are there to win premierships for their clubs and supporters whether they be league reserves or u18 as do the Noarlunga shoes they want to win premieships regardless of the grade, as do Victor Harbor in their competition.

You do realise what all these clubs are there for dont you?

To suggest to any club from A6 to southern league to State league and its players that you arent there to contest a premiership is down right stupid

HAVE YOU EVER PLAYED COMPETITIVE SPORT?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

They know where they sit they are there to win premierships for their clubs and supporters whether they be league reserves or u18 as do the Noarlunga shoes they want to win premieships regardless of the grade, as do Victor Harbor in their competition.

You do realise what all these clubs are there for dont you?

To suggest to any club from A6 to southern league to State league and its players that you arent there to contest a premiership is down right stupid

HAVE YOU EVER PLAYED COMPETITIVE SPORT?

So would a club promote a player from its reserves team to its league team? What about the reserves premiership?

 

[DJ75]

They know where they sit they are there to win premierships for their clubs and supporters whether they be league reserves or u18 as do the Noarlunga shoes they want to win premieships regardless of the grade, as do Victor Harbor in their competition.

You do realise what all these clubs are there for dont you?

To suggest to any club from A6 to southern league to State league and its players that you arent there to contest a premiership is down right stupid

HAVE YOU EVER PLAYED COMPETITIVE SPORT?

Jesus you are a tw@t.
Yes I have. Yes a lot. Yes at State Level. Yes I'm also still involved and connected with many at the top level in many sports. Get over yourself.

I'm suggesting the SANFL clubs should prioritise development of U18's over an U18 premiership. Of course clubs at Senior level should play for premierships, but we are talking about kids, not Seniors. Perhaps comprehension is an issue for you. HAVE YOU EVER ATTENDED SCHOOL?
Should Walkerville Junior Football Club put an U12 premiership ahead of the players development? Of course not. No-one gives a sh!t who won the U12 premiership.
Anything from U18 and below is development. Above is premierships.

There are a few Basketball clubs in Adelaide who put premierships at U10-14 level above all else. They win lots of them. They brag about it. Players go to the clubs because they think they are the best clubs. Their players however, rarely ever go on to be top line players and by U16 and U18 they are surpassed. The SANFL is experiencing the same issue. If you prioritise winning over development, you eventually get passed by.

 

[ad victoriam]

Your question about wanting to retain clubs, then the answer is yes they would, they may not see Port and Adelaide being only guests in the comp forever, there could be an AFL reseves comp who knows, that leaves 8 if two clubs fold that would make six, its very hard to operate a league with 6 clubs, so the financial assistance may be a means to an end. So the answer is yes I can see all clubs keeping the struggling ones alive to retan a competition, they are probably fairly safe for a number of years with the revenue stream from the governemnt or their asset, coupled with the proceeds of footy park

Will always like to see 8 clubs plus the 2 AFL, if the 2 AFL clubs move then a min of 8 Clubs.
But in regards to the under 16's and 18's, I just wonder if we removed them from the SANFL clubs it will ease the burden and cost while allowing the underage teams to be better developed and educated , this would have the carry over of better-prepared players entering the SANFL. Maybe we will then see an SANFL team without imports.

 

[marty36]

Jesus you are a tw@t.
Yes I have. Yes a lot. Yes at State Level. Yes I'm also still involved and connected with many at the top level in many sports. Get over yourself.

I'm suggesting the SANFL clubs should prioritise development of U18's over an U18 premiership. Of course clubs at Senior level should play for premierships, but we are talking about kids, not Seniors. Perhaps comprehension is an issue for you. HAVE YOU EVER ATTENDED SCHOOL?
Should Walkerville Junior Football Club put an U12 premiership ahead of the players development? Of course not. No-one gives a sh!t who won the U12 premiership.
Anything from U18 and below is development. Above is premierships.

There are a few Basketball clubs in Adelaide who put premierships at U10-14 level above all else. They win lots of them. They brag about it. Players go to the clubs because they think they are the best clubs. Their players however, rarely ever go on to be top line players and by U16 and U18 they are surpassed. The SANFL is experiencing the same issue. If you prioritise winning over development, you eventually get passed by.

So out of the 8 teams lets say 300 kids how many are going to play AFL?

How many make the elite the rest are playing for the enjoyment of the game and competition including those ones trying to get into elite.As is the kid playing at Henley Sharks U18

Believe it or not enjoyment when playing footbal is playing to win I know its politically incorrect but its a fact of life deal with it

I dont still play sport to be involved I still play to win regardless of the competition whether its handicapped or open, that is what makes it enjoyable to most

 

[marty36]

Will always like to see 8 clubs plus the 2 AFL, if the 2 AFL clubs move then a min of 8 Clubs.
But in regards to the under 16's and 18's, I just wonder if we removed them from the SANFL clubs it will ease the burden and cost while allowing the underage teams to be better developed and educated , this would have the carry over of better-prepared players entering the SANFL. Maybe we will then see an SANFL team without imports.

Its a large investment for how many players? In which over half dont make it anyway. So how much do you invest on a net result of how many players making it at AFL level

You cant and should not force SANFL clubs as its not about creating AFL players its still a competition although some wish it wasnt and they can pick and choose which divisions act like a competition and which dont.

If the AFL want to invest into creating a comp let them, but looking at the net result that seems almost impossible to predict!

 

[DJ75]

So out of the 8 teams lets say 300 kids how many are going to play AFL?

How many make the elite the rest are playing for the enjoyment of the game and competition including those ones trying to get into elite.As is the kid playing at Henley Sharks U18

Believe it or not enjoyment when playing footbal is playing to win I know its politically incorrect but its a fact of life deal with it

I dont still play sport to be involved I still play to win regardless of the competition whether its handicapped or open, that is what makes it enjoyable to most

Yep SANFL U18 clubs play for enjoyment. Wow!! That's a first.

SANFL clubs play to win. They consider themselves an elite competition. Enjoyment is NOT part of what they do. Playing for enjoyment is what you do at the local clubs. Yes football is still enjoyable regardless of what level, but the SANFL clubs are not there for enjoyment. I've watched the way they treat players and they are not interested in the players enjoyment.

 

[ad victoriam]

Its a large investment for how many players? In which over half dont make it anyway. So how much do you invest on a net result of how many players making it at AFL level

You cant and should not force SANFL clubs as its not about creating AFL players its still a competition although some wish it wasnt and they can pick and choose which divisions act like a competition and which dont.

If the AFL want to invest into creating a comp let them, but looking at the net result that seems almost impossible to predict!

It not about the AFL the SANFL are losing under 18's due to the current system, having a better run under 18 comp will go a long way to retaining more of these kids and over time improve the SANFL.