Skippos's Final 2014 Phantom Draft

[bloke_]

Speaking of Hammelmann Knightmare thinks Fremantle should bud their first pick on him. Is he not worth it in your opinion? I doubt a Goddard type will last till our pick

 

[Skippos]

Sam Fisher showed on the weekend how important a cool head that backs himself marking instead of punching and reads the play well is to the St Kilda line-up. I would say he's been one of the most underrated players in the competition for the best part of a decade and excluding Riewoldt our most important player over that period. On par with Hayes at the very least.

Fisher is 32 (or close to it) and on his last legs. Hypothetically who do you see the best replacement out of Durdin and Lever or anyone else I'm unaware of? Also, theres a chance St Kilda finish with pick 4 even 5 (in the case we go past GWS, Melb and Bris) if Melb get an early compo pick for Frawley. Do you think a pick around 3-4 is too early to pick Durdin or Lever?

Yeah I definitely agree that someone like Fisher is structurally a massive plus. If you're looking for someone to functionally perform a similar role then Lever's your man. He's not a Fisher clone but shares many similarities and is capable of that calm high intercept marking game as well as being a reasonably productive influence out of centre half-back. I think Lever will end up better than Durdin. Durdin's just got a higher ceiling and at his height the role he fills is considered structurally more vital by many teams so if he does make it he'll be that much more important. While I can definitely see that what I've written about Durdin probably gives the impression that he can perform that role it's all a bit relative to his height and really I see him as more of a Carlisle down back (but with greater footskills and decision making and perhaps less physical and assured) than a Taylor or a Fisher.

 

[TheLastEmperor]

Yeah I definitely agree that someone like Fisher is structurally a massive plus. If you're looking for someone to functionally perform a similar role then Lever's your man. He's not a Fisher clone but shares many similarities and is capable of that calm high intercept marking game as well as being a reasonably productive influence out of centre half-back. I think Lever will end up better than Durdin. Durdin's just got a higher ceiling and at his height the role he fills is considered structurally more vital by many teams so if he does make it he'll be that much more important. While I can definitely see that what I've written about Durdin probably gives the impression that he can perform that role it's all a bit relative to his height and really I see him as more of a Carlisle down back (but with greater footskills and decision making and perhaps less physical and assured) than a Taylor or a Fisher.

Thanks mate. I understand Lever was considered top 3 prior to doing his ACL. Would you still use a top 5 pick on him?

 

[Skippos]

Speaking of Hammelmann Knightmare thinks Fremantle should bud their first pick on him. Is he not worth it in your opinion? I doubt a Goddard type will last till our pick

It depends on a few things, mainly how confident they are of their existing forward stocks. They've got so many young developing forwards sitting in the magoos in Taberner, Gumbleton, Pearce (though he's playing down back now?), Apeness and Smith so it'd depend on how they see all of those. All are in the 195-200 height range like Hammelmann and none project to be dominant franchise forwards in my eyes. The worry for me is that in bringing in more forwards in the same mold they won't get the match related development young forwards need. Moller was sent to the reserves this year for example despite kicking 4 the week before. Now I reckon Moller's a future AFL standard ruck but I'd prefer him playing WAFL as a forward/occasional ruck than Reserves as a ruckman. And even with him down in the reserves Peel's forward line was so stacked that none of the fellas could really experience playing in a structure similar to what they'll get at AFL level. Bringing in another tall whether it be Hammelmann or Keitel could potentially be overkill.

I think to make it viable you'd probably have to consider chopping one or two of the existing developing talls. It's already too stacked as is. None of the existing fellas bar perhaps Gumbleton are worth giving up on either so unless another club came calling for someone like Tanner Smith I think an extra wouldn't be viable. That said Hammelmann is considerably better than Keitel in my eyes and also has a far higher ceiling than the existing developing talls at Fremantle so on that front he's an upgrade. I just think you'd be better off by bringing in a different player and giving the current crop an extra year to see if they're going to make it or not and making decisions based on that.

 

[Barrels]

Sam Fisher showed on the weekend how important a cool head that backs himself marking instead of punching and reads the play well is to the St Kilda line-up. I would say he's been one of the most underrated players in the competition for the best part of a decade and excluding Riewoldt our most important player over that period. On par with Hayes at the very least.

Fisher is 32 (or close to it) and on his last legs. Hypothetically who do you see the best replacement out of Durdin and Lever or anyone else I'm unaware of? Also, theres a chance St Kilda finish with pick 4 even 5 (in the case we go past GWS, Melb and Bris) if Melb get an early compo pick for Frawley. Do you think a pick around 3-4 is too early to pick Durdin or Lever?

Durdin is more of a genuine KPD size, Lever is a bit small these days (192cm).

Both are superb marks, Lever probably better at the intercept role. Durdin's kicking is seriously elite. Lever also has serious leadership credentials.

Now the issues; Durdin would snap in half in a stiff breeze currently, Lever has missed the whole season after an ACL, and we have no idea how he'll be (although I suspect he'll be fine).

Durdin for me if we want a versatile KPP, Lever if we're looking at that zone-off type.

Also, Marchbank is probably the next best defender, and a very strong intercept marker in his own right, although McLaren, Nielson and Tester (VM), Goddard (VC), Callum Wilkie (SA) and Tyler Keitel (WA) all showed bits and pieces.

 

[bloke_]

It depends on a few things, mainly how confident they are of their existing forward stocks. They've got so many young developing forwards sitting in the magoos in Taberner, Gumbleton, Pearce (though he's playing down back now?), Apeness and Smith so it'd depend on how they see all of those. All are in the 195-200 height range like Hammelmann and none project to be dominant franchise forwards in my eyes. The worry for me is that in bringing in more forwards in the same mold they won't get the match related development young forwards need. Moller was sent to the reserves this year for example despite kicking 4 the week before. Now I reckon Moller's a future AFL standard ruck but I'd prefer him playing WAFL as a forward/occasional ruck than Reserves as a ruckman. And even with him down in the reserves Peel's forward line was so stacked that none of the fellas could really experience playing in a structure similar to what they'll get at AFL level. Bringing in another tall whether it be Hammelmann or Keitel could potentially be overkill.

I think to make it viable you'd probably have to consider chopping one or two of the existing developing talls. It's already too stacked as is. None of the existing fellas bar perhaps Gumbleton are worth giving up on either so unless another club came calling for someone like Tanner Smith I think an extra wouldn't be viable. That said Hammelmann is considerably better than Keitel in my eyes and also has a far higher ceiling than the existing developing talls at Fremantle so on that front he's an upgrade. I just think you'd be better off by bringing in a different player and giving the current crop an extra year to see if they're going to make it or not and making decisions based on that.

Unless Gumby suddenly started dominating I think he will be delisted. As you said, Pearce is playing as a back and Smith is actually a KPD (well, that's where he's been playing).

I know what you mean by stacking Peels fwd line. I think that's one of the reasons they've been so average this season - they're too tall. I don't like the alignment and that's one of the reasons why.

 

[Skippos]

Thanks mate. I understand Lever was considered top 3 prior to doing his ACL. Would you still use a top 5 pick on him?

I wouldn't. Missing a year of development as a footballer and athlete impacts him a little and coming off an ACL there are always doubts. As a player he's never going to be the #1 defender at a reasonable club on size alone and I'm not too sure I'd be considering a top 5 pick on a #2 KPD unless you felt they had some potential to be a swingman/midfielder too. Just too many ?s - I'd be a lot more inclined to say he could potentially be a pick 4-5 kind of bloke if he didn't have the ACL.

 

[TheLastEmperor]

I wouldn't. Missing a year of development as a footballer and athlete impacts him a little and coming off an ACL there are always doubts. As a player he's never going to be the #1 defender at a reasonable club on size alone and I'm not too sure I'd be considering a top 5 pick on a #2 KPD unless you felt they had some potential to be a swingman/midfielder too. Just too many ?s - I'd be a lot more inclined to say he could potentially be a pick 4-5 kind of bloke if he didn't have the ACL.

Makes complete sense. It would be nice if Lever slid or we had a pick around his draft range.

Uncle Barrels it sounds like Lever is the perfect Fisher replacement. Given his draft range its unlikely we end up with him though.

 

[Skippos]

Durdin is more of a genuine KPD size, Lever is a bit small these days (192cm).

Both are superb marks, Lever probably better at the intercept role. Durdin's kicking is seriously elite. Lever also has serious leadership credentials.

Now the issues; Durdin would snap in half in a stiff breeze currently, Lever has missed the whole season after an ACL, and we have no idea how he'll be (although I suspect he'll be fine).

Durdin for me if we want a versatile KPP, Lever if we're looking at that zone-off type.

Also, Marchbank is probably the next best defender, and a very strong intercept marker in his own right, although McLaren, Nielson and Tester (VM), Goddard (VC), Callum Wilkie (SA) and Tyler Keitel (WA) all showed bits and pieces.

I think you're spot on there. The advantage of Durdin (and why I've got him a little higher) is that he's got the size (and will have the bulk unless he's got a bad case of Jarrad Grant-itis) to take the real power forwards of the comp but also the athleticism and ground level ability to take the smaller more athletic/mobile talls and even some third talls. That and the versatility. Marchbank in my eyes is a level or two behind Lever. Wilkie doesn't really have enough going for him to be draftable imo, the fourth best of the SA KPDs. Ramsay and McLean both better options from SA.

Next year there'll be KPDs around if you're after them too. Weitering, Skinner and Collins from Country already are projecting as top 25 options with Weitering in particular being a favourite of mine and someone who I think might be able to fill the Fisher void should you want someone.

Unless Gumby suddenly started dominating I think he will be delisted. As you said, Pearce is playing as a back and Smith is actually a KPD (well, that's where he's been playing).

I know what you mean by stacking Peels fwd line. I think that's one of the reasons they've been so average this season - they're too tall. I don't like the alignment and that's one of the reasons why.

Agree, Gumby's probably gone. You can't really play 5-6 >6'4 forwards in a forward line so part of me thinks Smith is back because he *can* play back, not because it's where he's best. I think if you're going to persist with Smith as a defender he'll be an good one but as a forward I think he could probably be the best of the bunch and that's why I'm grouping him with them. Perhaps I'm the only one who thinks that though.

 

[Barrels]

Personally I'm all about Josh Schache next year...

 

[12Chill]

Who is better for next year, Ryan Burton or Josh Schache? Haven't seen anything from either but heard some good things.

 

[Barrels]

Burton probably more dominant to this stage, Schache a lot taller.

Wait and see...

 

[Bailey01]

Would be really happy with Laverde
Good job mate

 

[Skippos]

Who is better for next year, Ryan Burton or Josh Schache? Haven't seen anything from either but heard some good things.

Lots of water to go under the bridge but I'm going with Burton. Can't argue with runs on the board and he has them. Height is an issue though and at 191 he's that tweener size for a tall forward. He'd be wanting another inch at least. Schache has that height and at least in that regard doesn't have the question marks.

Burton's a pure footballer though and playing SANFL early season as an underager. Don't often see that happen. Intelligent footballer, leads to the right places at the right times, is a one grab player, takes it at the highest point and kicks well and from distance. If he grows an inch he's the best forward prospect in the land next year. If he's stopped growing (which I don't think he has, measured 189 when North measured him early season and 191 when SA measured him) then the question marks are strong. Schache has the height, he's agile, a nice long kick, a one grab mark and solid below the knees - he too is a top prospect. Right now I'm going with Burton. But Schache can power past him if he bangs down the door next year.

 

[Skippos]

Just on Burton though, there's a chance he mightn't even go into next years draft as the best KPF from SA. One bloke down here I really like and I'm going to try and get another look or two at him over the next month and there's another who I think could well be a real option too. Both are just a little small at the moment - like Burton.

 

[_RT_]

If everything you say about Pickett is accurate then Richmond won't go anywhere near him. Ahern or Laverde would be the more likely pick unless someone expected to go top 6 slid.

 

[Barrels]

Just on Burton though, there's a chance he mightn't even go into next years draft as the best KPF from SA. One bloke down here I really like and I'm going to try and get another look or two at him over the next month and there's another who I think could well be a real option too. Both are just a little small at the moment - like Burton.

Beioley?

 

[Skippos]

If everything you say about Pickett is accurate then Richmond won't go anywhere near him. Ahern or Laverde would be the more likely pick unless someone expected to go top 6 slid.

I'm not sure that my opinion is shared by those in the business, and that's why I've got him so high.

Beioley?

Yup, and Agius. Both have a lot more to prove than Burton though who convincingly outplayed Agius in the 18s on the weekend. That said there's a lot of upside in Agius that I'm not sure Burton has, just hope he grows.

 

[_RT_]

I'm not sure that my opinion is shared by those in the business, and that's why I've got him so high.

Unless there is a change in our drafting philosophy, I'd still suggest the other 2 would be ahead of him in our rankings.

 

[Skippos]

Unless there is a change in our drafting philosophy, I'd still suggest the other 2 would be ahead of him in our rankings.

Yeah part of me definitely believes that. It'd certainly fit the trend for you guys to pick up one of those two. I've just got the feeling after this season's mediocrity a few things will change, one of which is the drafting philosophy. Normally it doesn't come into consideration but with Richmond's issues with fairweather supporters, well, nothing brings fans back more than a young fella making a name for himself off the back of genuine and exciting football. See: Bontempelli. Pickett's the kind of player that if he makes it can win games, will have several highlight plays a game and will bring fans through the gates. Not only that but if he were to peak, he'd compliment you guys more than the other options. Lots of ifs, and I'd much prefer to have him going to west coast at 8 but my gut for now just says otherwise.

 

[frank berry]

H

Durdin is more of a genuine KPD size, Lever is a bit small these days (192cm).

Both are superb marks, Lever probably better at the intercept role. Durdin's kicking is seriously elite. Lever also has serious leadership credentials.

Now the issues; Durdin would snap in half in a stiff breeze currently, Lever has missed the whole season after an ACL, and we have no idea how he'll be (although I suspect he'll be fine).

Durdin for me if we want a versatile KPP, Lever if we're looking at that zone-off type.

Also, Marchbank is probably the next best defender, and a very strong intercept marker in his own right, although McLaren, Nielson and Tester (VM), Goddard (VC), Callum Wilkie (SA) and Tyler Keitel (WA) all showed bits and pieces.

lever at 194 cm and still growing 89 kilos fit in ripping shape,2 triathlons he is doing, he has been told not to bother playing this year be ready round 1 next year from a number of clubs he is a massive massive unit watch this space and getting bigger .

 

[Skippos]

H
lever at 194 cm and still growing 89 kilos fit in ripping shape,2 triathlons he is doing, he has been told not to bother playing this year be ready round 1 next year from a number of clubs he is a massive massive unit watch this space and getting bigger .

Where'd you get those measurements from champ? Last I saw 192/84

If he's 194 and growing that certainly changes things a little.

 

[Barrels]

H
lever at 194 cm and still growing 89 kilos fit in ripping shape,2 triathlons he is doing, he has been told not to bother playing this year be ready round 1 next year from a number of clubs he is a massive massive unit watch this space and getting bigger .

Very interesting...

 

[TheLastEmperor]

Where'd you get those measurements from champ? Last I saw 192/84

If he's 194 and growing that certainly changes things a little.

If that height is correct and he tests well at the combine, he may be back into top 5 calculations.

 

[Skippos]

Absolutely. Perhaps he's been smashing it in the gym as well hence the 5 kilos on the upper body or something

*if* true, exciting.