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Sliding Dawes

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mdc said:
I wouldn't dream of it...


The rest of the post is cherry-picking nonsense. He's played 4 games this year, and has kicked 16 goals. That's a fact.
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He has played 2 senior regular season VFL games and 5 goals - That's a fact

He has played 2 VFL practice games - hardly close enough to consider as seriously close to AFL standard

mdc said:
Stuff like "37.5% accuracy" is just silly, considering I could just as easily turn around and say: 'well, he had 100% accuracy the week before'.
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No its not... Its a fact???

You could easily say he had 100% accuracy... but did he - Is that a fact? I'm not just saying 37.5% because I want to for the purpose of a debate with you??? - it's because it happened:rolleyes:

mdc said:
Fwiw, what's the last time any of our current AFL talls created 8 scoring shots in any level of competition?
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Good call - Agreed. But we someone to kick goals - we have countless people who kick points for us.
 
mdc said:
The rest of the post is cherry-picking nonsense.
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Or just simply to hard to answer my questions?

So 7 players kick 4 or more each week in the VFL - Which is "Absolutely Spectacular"

Where's the 45 possession players you keep talking about... or is it just easier to call my post "Cherry picking nonsense" rather than continue discussing the points you brought up?:thumbsdown:
 
Smoky, but it's not the same 7 players each week. I don't know why you think a VFL practice game is that much different to a normal VFL game, but that's your prerogative.

As for saying he kicked 100% the week before - that's very much true.

Anyways, I'm very much over the idea of nitpicking VFL stats, so let's just hope he performs this week, whether in the AFL or back in the twos. :thumbsu:
 
Everything you've said is fair enough, Smoky, but do you honestly feel that we would perform better with Leigh Brown or Josh Fraser (or even Tarkyn Lockyer or Brent Macaffer) than with Chris Dawes? That's all this comes down to. Take one player out, put one Dawes in. Tall marking goalkicking forwards don't grow on trees and we need to play the ones we have. He aint the messiah, but he is a strong, skilled tall forward who has potential.
 

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If Dawes was kicking 6-7 every week in the VFL he'd be on the level of Buddy Franklin. Lets get a bit of perspective please. Dawes has played very well over the past few weeks, that is undeniable. We can only hope he gets his shot on Sunday.
 
buzzbuzz said:
Everything you've said is fair enough, Smoky, but do you honestly feel that we would perform better with Leigh Brown or Josh Fraser (or even Tarkyn Lockyer or Brent Macaffer) than with Chris Dawes? That's all this comes down to. Take one player out, put one Dawes in. Tall marking goalkicking forwards don't grow on trees and we need to play the ones we have. He aint the messiah, but he is a strong, skilled tall forward who has potential.
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I don't mind if he gets selected - but I think he has demanded his position in the seniors as some seems to assume. The thread insinuates its a no brainer his selection and that it must be Fraser or Brown he replaces?

I have very little faith in Dawes playing in the ruck (as a second ruck)... and think Fraser has earned the right to let the club persist with him to find his feet in a new forward pinch hitting position and in fact on the ball and around the ground. Not Full time CHF or FF as Dawes is only selectable at.

Comparing Dawes and Brown's positions is similar to comparing Dawes and Johnson... they play 2 different positions. I mean how much time does Brown spend around FF each game?

I mean how many goals did MaCaffer kick in the VFL in 2008 and not get selected... didn't he kick 10 in a game once? Yet only now is MaCaffer starting to actually show signs in playing Senior footy at the level required and would feel pretty harsh done by to be replaced this week after an admirable performance last week.
 
Zahki said:
If Dawes was kicking 6-7 every week in the VFL he'd be on the level of Buddy Franklin. Lets get a bit of perspective please. Dawes has played very well over the past few weeks, that is undeniable. We can only hope he gets his shot on Sunday.
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Fair enough - 6 or 7 is a bit far.

But assuming and demanding his inclusion for a VFL Full forward who is averaging 2.5 goals a game in the VFL I think is a little rich.

Dawes is 16th in the league when it comes to goals per game average in the VFL. Although Jack Anthony has only played one VFL game his average is better... and Luke rounds has played both games as has Dawes and appears to have a better average.

Dawes is a Full Forward. His job is to kick goals. His conversion rate last week was 37.5%. His goals to points this season appears to be 5 goals 5 points... Not exactly Lance Franklin stuff... and not exactly what I consider demanding selection in a senior team in his position of Full Forward when we need goal kickers who convert.

He may have done enough to get a shot... but has not demanded his position with results.
 
If they're going to play him, I hope they park his arse in the goal square.
 
Smoky said:
You could easily say he had 100% accuracy... but did he - Is that a fact?
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Smoky said:
Dawes is 16th in the league when it comes to goals per game average in the VFL. Although Jack Anthony has only played one VFL game his average is better... and Luke rounds has played both games as has Dawes and appears to have a better average.
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The fact that you didn't know that Dawes did have 100% accuracy in his first game, and that you didn't know that Rounds didn't play in both VFL games, suggests to me that you haven't seen either game, and are making decisions based on at best limited information.

Dawes kicked 7 goals in a VFL practice match.
He kicked 4 goals in a half of the next practice match before being rested/mothballed.
He kicked 2 goals (at 100%) accuracy in the first regular season game and was named 3rd best.
He kicked 3 goals last week in the second regular season game and was named BOG. Browny's comments after the game re-inforced that Dawes was the difference in the match.

Not only does Dawes kick goals, however, he actually creates goals for his teammates because he gets to a lot of contests, is great below his knees and makes smart decisions with the ball. In the first regular-season VFL game Browny made the point that Dawes had a "great game defensively", something that no-one has been accusing JA of having lately.

But anyway, pretty much everyone who has seen Dawes play recently is unanimous in saying that Dawes has well and truly earned his chance. Add to that that since the Melbourne game, we've been playing without a key forward. I think Dawes getting a call-up for ANZAC Day is an absolute monty. You may disagree, but that isn't the point of this thread.
 
The Royal Sampler said:
The fact that you didn't know that Dawes did have 100% accuracy in his first game, and that you didn't know that Rounds didn't play in both VFL games, suggests to me that you haven't seen either game, and are making decisions based on at best limited information.

Dawes kicked 7 goals in a VFL practice match.
He kicked 4 goals in a half of the next practice match before being rested/mothballed.
He kicked 2 goals (at 100%) accuracy in the first regular season game and was named 3rd best.
He kicked 3 goals last week in the second regular season game and was named BOG. Browny's comments after the game re-inforced that Dawes was the difference in the match.

Not only does Dawes kick goals, however, he actually creates goals for his teammates because he gets to a lot of contests, is great below his knees and makes smart decisions with the ball. In the first regular-season VFL game Browny made the point that Dawes had a "great game defensively", something that no-one has been accusing JA of having lately.

But anyway, pretty much everyone who has seen Dawes play recently is unanimous in saying that Dawes has well and truly earned his chance. Add to that that since the Melbourne game, we've been playing without a key forward. I think Dawes getting a call-up for ANZAC Day is an absolute monty. You may disagree, but that isn't the point of this thread.
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No I didn't know Dawes kicked 2 goals straight in his first game... that's why I asked??? I'm not disputing that it happened:confused::confused::confused:

I read the leaders board incorrectly and do realize now that Rounds only played one VFL game.

So the point of the thread is that only Fraser or Brown can be dropped for Dawes? I think that is a ridiculous topic and if it's only Fraser or Brown that have to be dropped for Dawes to get a game... well, I think you're all wrong.:eek:
 
My point is that you're making selection arguments based on stats.

As for the point of the thread, it's a hypothetical situation. Forced-choice questionnaires are used all the time. It's clearly outlined (albeit in small font) in the OP, and has been from the start. If you don't like the premise for the thread, start your own.
 

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The Royal Sampler said:
My point is that you're making selection arguments based on stats.

As for the point of the thread, it's a hypothetical situation. Forced-choice questionnaires are used all the time. It's clearly outlined (albeit in small font) in the OP, and has been from the start. If you don't like the premise for the thread, start your own.
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Agree you don't go by Stats you go by what you see when you watch them play
 
I think the argument really come down to this for me. We have two talls in Fraser and Brown in the AFL right now that are really offering the side nothing. We are lacking a KPF following Anthony's demotion. Dawes is in the VFL in pretty solid form and seems to offer more than at least two talls in our current side based on form. FWIW I think he could well come in for a small anyway. We are playing one KPB (Presti), one KPF (Cloke) one ruck (Jolly) and two tall utilities (Brown, Fraser). It wouldn't upset team balance to bring Dawes in for a small. But considering we have two talls playing so poorly it makes more sense to drop one of them.
 
Quicky said:
I think the argument really come down to this for me. We have two talls in Fraser and Brown in the AFL right now that are really offering the side nothing.
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I agree, and it's why I scratch my head in befuddlement over the microscopic analysis of Dawes' form. Think what he's done thus far in the VFL more than justifies him getting a game ahead of either Brown or Fraser, both of whom have offered absolutely zilch since Rd1.

Why persist with the status quo, when the status quo is giving you nothing? It's not like Dawes could give us less than zero.
 
I think Dawes should come in but Smoky's point is not so ridiculous. Dawes has been in good form and is worthy of selection but some people are talking like he would be absolutely robbed if he wasn't selected this week which is stretching it a bit.

I do think he projects as very largely a confidence player and off the back of a really strong marking game I think it's probably a good time to give him a run.
 
shawthing09 said:
I think Dawes should come in but Smoky's point is not so ridiculous. Dawes has been in good form and is worthy of selection but some people are talking like he would be absolutely robbed if he wasn't selected this week which is stretching it a bit.

I do think he projects as very largely a confidence player and off the back of a really strong marking game I think it's probably a good time to give him a run.
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this is what worries me...

(assuming he plays) if the first one or two attempts at overhead marks don't stick, i have a feeling that he'll go back into his shell and simply stop attempting them :(
 
chop_me said:
this is what worries me...

(assuming he plays) if the first one or two attempts at overhead marks don't stick, i have a feeling that he'll go back into his shell and simply stop attempting them :(
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It's not ideal but as Palmer points out above it's not like we are losing anything in dropping Fraser or Brown.

What worries me more then anything and to be honest is that there have been glimpses of his effort totally dropping off when he plays poorly which isn't something you want to see.

For the purposes of this discussion though he can't be worse then the Brown / Fraser combo and it is much desirable to play him when he is in good nick rather then when he isn't. On top of that whilst Anthony is struggling for fitness.

I am certainly not expecting him to come in and play a super game by any means but I do think now is as good a time as any to try him out.
 

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shawthing09 said:
It's not ideal but as Palmer points out above it's not like we are losing anything in dropping Fraser or Brown.

What worries me more then anything and to be honest is that there have been glimpses of his effort totally dropping off when he plays poorly which isn't something you want to see.

For the purposes of this discussion though he can't be worse then the Brown / Fraser combo and it is much desirable to play him when he is in good nick rather then when he isn't. On top of that whilst Anthony is struggling for fitness.

I am certainly not expecting him to come in and play a super game by any means but I do think now is as good a time as any to try him out.
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What I seen from Dawes this season is that I have not seen the Drop of the Head when things not going his way. Just look at RD 1 vs Willi he had a Sub-Par 1st Half and the 2nd Half he really got back in the game.

So I am not so worried about that now
 

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