Sliding door moments

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North doesn't get Carey and Longmire off the Swans in the late 80s.

History of both clubs dramatically different. North almost certainly merged in early 90s.
 
November 2008, Melbourne decide to select the consensus number 1 pick, Nic Naitanui, instead of bolter Jack Watts.

West Coast go for local boy Daniel Rich at pick 2, Fremantle stick with their preferred choice Stephen Hill at three, and so on and so on. Watts slips down to Brisbane at pick 7. He gets to develop at his own pace alongside Jono Brown and Daniel Bradshaw, outside of the glare of the Victorian football spotlight and without the pressure of being the top pick.
 

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legend166 said:
Probably biggest one for the Swans is renegging on the Wallace contract to sign Roos as coach at the end of 2002.

Roos was really just the absolute perfect person to come in and take over that group at that time. You had a player group who had just put up with years and years of Rodney Eade being an absolute massive jerk and just generally being a horrible person (go have a listen to the JunkTime podcast with Ryan Fitzgerald to see what I'm talking about here), and Roos comes in very much as a players' coach, makes a prelim, and from then on we've made the finals 14 years out of 15, 5 grand finals, 2 flags.

On the other hand, we could have had a Terry Wallace five year rebuild which is what would have been on the cards since we missed the finals in 2002 and were widely tipped for a bottom four or even spoon finish in 2003. Who knows what that does to the club?
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What if Mark McVeigh entertained Paul Roos offer to play at the swans at the end of 2004
 
SSSSSS said:
2013 Prelim final.

Prior to this moment the Hawthorn side had a reputation of underperforming in comparison to the vast amount of talent that was in the side. We choked a big lead in the prelim in 2011, and we choked in the 2012 Grand Final. We were now facing a third straight year of no success at 3 quarter time, and a twelvth straight defeat against our archnemesis of the decade.

Two pivotal moments of the game.

1) Enter Shaun Burgoyne. Wills the team over the line all over the ground. Forward, midfield and in defense he was the master on the night. Almost singlehandedly carries the Hawks over the line in the fourth quarter, and getting us into another Grand Final.

Without this moment will there be a threepeat?
Without his performance, would we have been too mentally burned out to go again?
How would players like Hodge, Mitchell, Roughead, Burgyone and their legacy be perceived without a threepeat.
The question of the 2001 Draft #1 pick will still remain. Was Hodge the right decision (in hindsight 100% yes).
Would we have been known as chokers?
What will be Clarkson's legacy? Will he achieve potential GOAT status that he has now?

Without this moment, the Hawthorn side of 2013-2015 would never have been known as one of the greatest sides of all time.

2) Varcoe's miss. Had he kicked the goal it would have forced the game into a draw and extra-time making it quite likely the greatest final/game in the history of football. Hawthorn had a steam of momentum but this was a champion Geelong side who knew how to step up when it mattered. Hawthorn's reputation did not match them at this point. If Geelong won they would challenge Fremantle who had humiliated them at Kardinia Park in a game with a lot of bad blood and venom.
Fremantle would have gone into the match with a heap of confidence and possibly set themselves up for their first flag, or Geelong bent on revenge could have cemented them as without a doubt the greatest team of all time, with Chris Scott being a 2x Premiership coach.
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Excellent post. I watched the 2013 prelim with keen interest, having been looking forward to it all week. But until I read that, I hadn't realised just how significant those few minutes of football in the 4th quarter were.
 
MaddAdam said:
North doesn't get Carey and Longmire off the Swans in the late 80s.

History of both clubs dramatically different. North almost certainly merged in early 90s.
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Would have been interesting to see if they developed into the same players at Sydney, or got sucked down by the vacuum that was the early '90s Swans.
 
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Miguel Sanchez said:
November 2008, Melbourne decide to select the consensus number 1 pick, Nic Naitanui, instead of bolter Jack Watts.

West Coast go for local boy Daniel Rich at pick 2, Fremantle stick with their preferred choice Stephen Hill at three, and so on and so on. Watts slips down to Brisbane at pick 7. He gets to develop at his own pace alongside Jono Brown and Daniel Bradshaw, outside of the glare of the Victorian football spotlight and without the pressure of being the top pick.
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I think you're overlooking/discounting how highly rated Watts was at the time. He wasn't a "bolter" or a "surprise" #1. He was MVP of the U/18 Championships as a bottom-ager, who was a year younger than most of the other top talents in his draft year. He was expected to be a superstar.

I still don't think it was necessarily a bad pick, but he came into the absolute worst environment possible for his development, and didn't have the maturity and drive to overcome it, and suffered for it.
 
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Damon_3388 said:
I think you're overlooking/discounting how highly rated Watts was at the time. He wasn't a "bolter" or a "surprise" #1. He was MVP of the U/18 Championships as a bottom-ager, who was a year younger than most of the other top talents in his draft year. He was expected to be a superstar.

I still don't think it was necessarily a bad pick, but he came into the absolute worst environment possible for his development, and didn't have tge maturity and drive to overcome it, and suffered for it.
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Yeah "bolter" was probably not the right word and maybe he wouldn't have gotten all the way to 7, but mind you Rich lasting that long was a big surprise.

Freo might've taken him at 3 but they've never really been fans of taking talls early, plus they really rated Hill who was a bolter. Port went local with Hartlett, Bombers would've been ecstatic to get Hurley. Maybe Watts would've gone to Carlton instead.
 
Going back in history because I'm an old bugga. Reposting something I put up on RFC board a while back. Maybe of interest.


My childhood love for Neil was aroused in the 1973 Prelim against Pies. In this legendary game the Tiges came back from a rather large deficit to overwhelm outmuscle and over run the Pies during the height of their Colliwobbles blue period. This was not just any old prelim. The year before we had been humiliated in the GF by our nemesis Carlton. I was in the southern stand that day, in tears, watching jackson nicols walls and jezza continuously kick goals from absolutely every conceivable angle. Nichols as captain coach pulled off one of the great masterstrokes with a high risk creative game day strategy that had Hafey and richmond metaphorically smashed to pieces. By 73 we were out for revenge. If we lose the prelim though, blues get the double and the tiges could have been in an historical mess with Gra Gra no doubt wielding an axe sacking everyone in sight, destroying the club 10 years prematurely. And at half time 73 prelim the tiges were gone. Gra Gra's revenge on his own club was looming. Most histories of this game focus on a half broken Hart coming on at half time and turning the game. This is not what happened. What really happened was Neil Balme. He took marks. He smashed the ball forward when he couldnt mark. He made his presence felt against the Pies defense. He ended up with 5 goals and with great support from KB the tiges got over the line. God praise Neil Balme for keeping the season and our revenge mission alive. He saved the year, saved the Club from Gra and got us into the 73 GF. I started wearing number 21 that week. And we all know what happened in the 73 GF. Neil played out his own masterplan against the blues by wielding a not very subtle sledgehammer around and scaring the shite out of the blues. Tiges won comfortably. We ate em alive. Revenge. And the double was achieved the next year making richmond the most fearsome and successful club of that time. Thanks to Neil's two big finals games.

I spent 20 years after 82 dreaming about getting some old stalwarts back to resurrect the club. My 2 faves for the job were sheeds and balme. While they were coaching premierships at other clubs the tiges fell into armageddon. My dreams would never be realised. I became distraught then depressed then defeated. The tiges were mostly crap for 30 odd years. A basket case.

Then Neil finally returned. The rest is history.
 
masai said:
Not a sliding door, there was no door for Lucas & Lloyd to come through.
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It wasn't a straight swap, but (much as I hate to say it) it was a sliding door. If Freo had not given up Pick 4 and the Compo Pick, they could have used pick 4 on Scott Lucas, and Matthew Lloyd would have been available at (Freo's) Pick 1 the next year. Of course, that would have meant no Clive.
 
NicoNicoNico said:
It wasn't a straight swap, but (much as I hate to say it) it was a sliding door. If Freo had not given up Pick 4 and the Compo Pick, they could have used pick 4 on Scott Lucas, and Matthew Lloyd would have been available at (Freo's) Pick 1 the next year. Of course, that would have meant no Clive.
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Lord Clive >>>>>> King Kepler >>>>>> Lloyd & Lucas, blasphemes to say otherwise !!!!.
 

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NicoNicoNico said:
It wasn't a straight swap, but (much as I hate to say it) it was a sliding door. If Freo had not given up Pick 4 and the Compo Pick, they could have used pick 4 on Scott Lucas, and Matthew Lloyd would have been available at (Freo's) Pick 1 the next year. Of course, that would have meant no Clive.
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They would have had to avoid signing any uncontracted players. Lloyd was just the first of seven compo picks - Steven King and Chad Morrison were others.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_AFL_draft#1995_uncontracted_and_concession_player_selections
 
Peter McKenna getting knocked out in the 2nd Quarter of the 1970 GF - by his own teammate (Des Tuddenham).

McKenna had 6 goals to that point in the game. In the Second Semi he had torched the Blues for 9 goals. In the 2 Home and away games he had kicked 9 & 8 goals respectively.

After half-time, McKenna never got near it - clearly concussed. I know, I know, Ted Hopkins, 'Handball, handball, handball', etc - but if McKenna was fit, I don't think the Blues get close. Jezza's mark becomes a footnote on the 'VFL Season 1970 Summary' tape - 'The one highlight for Carlton during the game was.........'

So, no Colliwobbles legend, Barassi's legacy takes a (smallish) hit, Bob Rose gets his premiership and remains Coach of Collingwood until he chooses to retire (rather than getting pushed after 1971), and probably wins one or two flags more with the side they had (of course, his family situation was far more important, so, maybe).

I honestly can't think of another time when a player was concussed by his own team-mate. Let alone, at half-time in a GF, and probably the best player on the ground at the time.
 
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If Phil Krakouer hadn't kicked a bag against the Bombers in the mid 80s, would Kevin Sheedy have invented Aboriginal players a few years later?
 
Quivorir said:
Pretty sure you don't understand what the term "sliding doors moment" means. Please learn from this guy who is employed to write for a living.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-06-15/sliding-doors-round-13
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Yep, he's pretty accurate with this.
Barrett got my team the Cats right. We blew it big time on Sunday and there is no excuse, they were in good form going in to the game and both teams had to play in the conditions. In reality the Cats were not really in the hunt with 11 goals to 5 after Qtr time, that is a significant beating. "massive on so many levels" ended up as massive fail.
 
MaddAdam said:
If Phil Krakouer hadn't kicked a bag against the Bombers in the mid 80s, would Kevin Sheedy have invented Aboriginal players a few years later?
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Cough, cough, .......... Syd Jackson, Graham Farmer +.

Kevin Sheedy just copied, what had been invented long before. Some things about Sheedy make good VFL / AFL myths.
 
Have a few:

-Warwick Capper stays with the Swans instead of pissing off to Brisbane. With the talent they had they could have won the flag with him still there which would have had huge ramifications on football in NSW. Also means we still might have Edelstein so in that case yeah I'm glad Capper left.

-Norwood grow a spine in 1990 and instead of kissing the SANFL's dick, they side with us and we launch bids together to join the national comp. Probably means no Crows and we have two historic and successful clubs in the AFL instead of an abomination of a franchise that think blindfolding players on a bus is a good idea. Also completely *s over the SANFL and campaigners like Olsen and Basheer which I have no problem with.

-The AFL and Ross Oakley grow a spine and actually move on s**t house Victorian clubs like North and St Kilda to accommodate areas like Tassie and potentially Canberra. At the time, League and Union were a complete shambles so you bring Canberra Kangas in or whatever then it's entirely feasible that we have a successful ACT AFL side right now. Also doesn't * up future expansion down the line because of too many teams. And instead of bringing in the Bears, just relocate Fitzroy to Brisbane and that saves us from ever seeing Skaise or Corona in the game.
 
Established1870 said:
-The AFL and Ross Oakley grow a spine and actually move on s**t house Victorian clubs like North and St Kilda to accommodate areas like Tassie and potentially Canberra.
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How were they going to do that? The AFL doesn't own clubs. The AFL provides a licence to clubs to compete in the AFL. Moreover any decision / encouragement by the AFL commission for clubs to merge, relocated or be expelled, had to be then ratified by an affirmative vote of two thirds of the AFL clubs. (Now it's a 75% affirmative vote)

Established1870 said:
At the time, League and Union were a complete shambles so you bring Canberra Kangas in or whatever then it's entirely feasible that we have a successful ACT AFL side right now.
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In 1995 Fitzroy was refused permission by the AFL to partially relocate to Canberra, and play seven home games there each season, despite having negotiated a deal which would have netted the Club an extra million dollars a year. Fitzroy's application had the support of the 'AFL for Canberra' organisation, the Canberra Raiders, the Ainslie Football Club and the ACT chief minister, who offered to upgrade Bruce Stadium. It was still knocked back.

Established1870 said:
Also doesn't **** up future expansion down the line because of too many teams. And instead of bringing in the Bears, just relocate Fitzroy to Brisbane and that saves us from ever seeing Skaise or Corona in the game.
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The AFL had no power to "just relocate Fitzroy to Brisbane".
 
I’m hoping Saturday night proves a sliding door moment.
“If that kick didn’t go out on the full, North wouldn’t have ran the length of the ground, kicked the winner and then go on to finish top 4 and win an unlikely flag”
 
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