List Mgmt. Sliding Doors - Another reason we missed Chris Judd?

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Thread starter #1
I alluded to this story in another thread, so here goes the story as promised. It relates to the forces of the universe conspiring against us yet again to deny us one of the AFL's greats, Chris Judd. I'm probably stretching the analysis to a breaking point but bear with me. I've already outlined how WCE gazumped us to snatch him from us on draft day back in 2001, but this story has its genesis in the early seventies and shows just how much the footy gods enjoy tormenting us.

It reminds me of the fable of Tantalus, a character from Greek mythology, whose story gave us the word tantalising. Tantalus was doomed never to reach a bunch of grapes he greatly desired. Every time he reached for them, a gentle breeze would blow and move them just out of his reach. So it went for eternity. Sounds like he must have been a saints' supporter.

Back to the story of Andrew Judd, who with his lovely wife Leslie, sired the dual Brownlow Medallist and premiership captain. A former senior football writer for The Herald (showing our age) and The Age, and colleague of mine, Ken Davis, told me this one. Andrew Judd was a student at Xavier and in the great tradition of that institution's muck up day history, he decided to pull a prank to beat all that preceded it.

The Friday before the HSC exams were due to start, he decided to commandeer a tram from the nearby Kew depot. He simply walked in at the change of the day to the afternoon shift, got in an empty tram and drove it into Barkers Road. None of the staff seemed to notice. He only drove it a few stops before abandoning it and making good his escape. Or so he thought. While the staff didn't notice, a number of disgruntled customers soon started ringing the depot to complain the tram had not stopped for them to be picked up. A quick investigation identified the culprit. Despite having an exemplary academic and behavioural record, Judd senior was expelled on the spot and suffered the inconvenience and humiliation of not being allowed to enter the Xavier campus at Kew to sit his HSC exams. He was forced to do them at the Exhibition Buildings with the great unwashed. He passed comfortably and went on to university.

He vowed that if he ever had a son, he would never allow him to set foot in any Xavier run school. He held to his promise and when the time came for young Chris to choose a school, Xavier was not even considered, despite the offer of a scholarship. The "Men for Men" from Kew take their nepotism and cronyism very seriously and the insult cut deeply from all reports. Apart from the personal affront to the Jesuits, the fact was that Chris was a fine footballer, more than handy cricketer and a high achieving student. He would've brought more glory and bragging rights with him. He and his parents chose Caulfield Grammar, home of the despised protestants.

I've often wondered if Chris had been a Xavier boy, instead of a Caulfield Grammarian, whether GT would have fallen in love with him the way he did with Luke Ball. Maybe he would've instructed JB to grab Judd at pick number 2 instead of waiting for pick 5, which was the plan. Rod Butterssssss was furious we didn't get Judd. He'd coached Chris in juniors and rated him the best junior he'd seen. I'm still bitter about it. I think not drafting him cost us at least one, if not two flags. Not that it was my decision. I just had a very good view of the unfolding tragedy.

This is why I'm a tad apprehensive about this draft. I rate Rankine as I rated Judd then. A clear number one, though back in the day I'd seen little of Luke Hodge. If he's available to us and we don't take him, I'm sure we'll live to regret it. Max King also evokes a similar fear in me. Given our history, the one we end up will probably be a bust and the other will go on to play in multiple premierships. Such is the fate of the saints' supporter. Sigh!!!

My next lengthy post will be an analysis and profile of the sort of personality is drawn to support the saints. It follows on from my piece in which I diagnosed the club with displaying all the traits of someone with Borderline Personality Disorder. I promise it will be interesting if somewhat confronting.
 
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Sheeza69

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#3
I alluded to this story in another thread, so here goes the story as promised. It relates to the forces of the universe conspiring against us yet again to deny us one of the AFL's greats, Chris Judd. I'm probably stretching the analysis to a breaking point but bear with me. I've already outlined how WCE gazumped us to snatch him from us on draft day back in 2001, but this story has its genesis in the early seventies and shows just how much the footy gods enjoy tormenting us.

It reminds me of the story of Tantalus, a character from Greek mythology, whose story gave us the word tantalising. Tantalus was doomed never to reach a bunch of grapes he greatly desired. Every time he reached for them, a gentle breeze would blow and move them just out of his reach. So it went for eternity. Sounds like he must have been a saints' supporter.

Back to the story of Andrew Judd, who with his lovely wife Leslie, sired the dual Brownlow Medallist and premiership captain. A former senior football writer for The Herald (showing our age) and The Age and colleague of mine, Ken Davis, told me this one. Andrew Judd was a student at Xavier and in the great tradition of that institution's muck up day history, he decided to pull a prank to beat all that preceded it.

The Friday before the HSC exams were due to start, he decided to commandeer a tram from the nearby Kew depot. He simply walked in at the change of the day to the afternoon shift, got in an empty tram and drove it into Barkers Road. None of the staff seemed to notice. He only drove it a few stops before abandoning it and making good his escape. Or so he thought. While the staff didn't notice, a number of disgruntled customers soon started ringing the depot to complain the tram had not stopped for them to be picked up. A quick investigation quickly identified the culprit. Despite having an exemplary academic and behavioural record, Judd senior was expelled on the spot and suffered the inconvenience and humiliation of not being allowed to enter the Xavier campus at Kew to sit his HSC exams. He was forced to do them at the Exhibition Buildings with the great unwashed. He passed comfortably and went on to university.

He vowed that if he ever had a son, he would never allow him to set foot in any Xavier run school. He held to his promise and when the time came for young Chris to choose a school, Xavier was not even considered, despite the offer of a scholarship. The "Men for Men" from Kew take their nepotism and cronyism very seriously and the insult cut deeply from all reports. Apart from the personal affront to the Jesuits, the fact was that Chris was a fine footballer, more than handy cricketer and a high achieving student. He would've brought more glory and bragging rights with him. He and his parents chose Caulfield Grammar, home of the despised protestants.

I've often wondered if Chris had been a Xavier boy, instead of a Caulfield Grammarian, whether GT would have fallen in love with him the way he did with Luke Ball. Maybe he would've instructed JB to grab Judd at pick number 2 instead of waiting for pick 5, which was the plan. Rod Butterssssss was furious we didn't get Judd. He'd coached Chris in juniors and rated him the best junior he'd seen. I'm still bitter about it. I think not drafting him cost us at least one, if not two flags. Not that it was my decision. I just had a very good view of the unfolding tragedy.

This is why I'm a tad apprehensive about this draft. I rate Rankine as I rated Judd then. A clear number one, though back in the day I'd seen little of Luke Hodge. If he's available to us and we don't take him, I'm sure we'll live to regret it. Max King also evokes a similar fear in me. Given our history, the one we end up will probably be a bust and the other will go on to play in multiple premierships. Such is the fate of the saints' supporter. Sigh!!!

My next lengthy post will be an analysis and profile of the sort of personality is drawn to support the saints. It follows on from my piece in which I diagnosed the club with displaying all the traits of someone with Borderline Personality Disorder. I promise it will be interesting if somewhat confronting.
Adding to your story of Tantalus, I'm led to believe he was suffering from a bad back.. lol
 

Sir Skid

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#6
I alluded to this story in another thread, so here goes the story as promised. It relates to the forces of the universe conspiring against us yet again to deny us one of the AFL's greats, Chris Judd. I'm probably stretching the analysis to a breaking point but bear with me. I've already outlined how WCE gazumped us to snatch him from us on draft day back in 2001, but this story has its genesis in the early seventies and shows just how much the footy gods enjoy tormenting us.

It reminds me of the story of Tantalus, a character from Greek mythology, whose story gave us the word tantalising. Tantalus was doomed never to reach a bunch of grapes he greatly desired. Every time he reached for them, a gentle breeze would blow and move them just out of his reach. So it went for eternity. Sounds like he must have been a saints' supporter.

Back to the story of Andrew Judd, who with his lovely wife Leslie, sired the dual Brownlow Medallist and premiership captain. A former senior football writer for The Herald (showing our age) and The Age and colleague of mine, Ken Davis, told me this one. Andrew Judd was a student at Xavier and in the great tradition of that institution's muck up day history, he decided to pull a prank to beat all that preceded it.

The Friday before the HSC exams were due to start, he decided to commandeer a tram from the nearby Kew depot. He simply walked in at the change of the day to the afternoon shift, got in an empty tram and drove it into Barkers Road. None of the staff seemed to notice. He only drove it a few stops before abandoning it and making good his escape. Or so he thought. While the staff didn't notice, a number of disgruntled customers soon started ringing the depot to complain the tram had not stopped for them to be picked up. A quick investigation quickly identified the culprit. Despite having an exemplary academic and behavioural record, Judd senior was expelled on the spot and suffered the inconvenience and humiliation of not being allowed to enter the Xavier campus at Kew to sit his HSC exams. He was forced to do them at the Exhibition Buildings with the great unwashed. He passed comfortably and went on to university.

He vowed that if he ever had a son, he would never allow him to set foot in any Xavier run school. He held to his promise and when the time came for young Chris to choose a school, Xavier was not even considered, despite the offer of a scholarship. The "Men for Men" from Kew take their nepotism and cronyism very seriously and the insult cut deeply from all reports. Apart from the personal affront to the Jesuits, the fact was that Chris was a fine footballer, more than handy cricketer and a high achieving student. He would've brought more glory and bragging rights with him. He and his parents chose Caulfield Grammar, home of the despised protestants.

I've often wondered if Chris had been a Xavier boy, instead of a Caulfield Grammarian, whether GT would have fallen in love with him the way he did with Luke Ball. Maybe he would've instructed JB to grab Judd at pick number 2 instead of waiting for pick 5, which was the plan. Rod Butterssssss was furious we didn't get Judd. He'd coached Chris in juniors and rated him the best junior he'd seen. I'm still bitter about it. I think not drafting him cost us at least one, if not two flags. Not that it was my decision. I just had a very good view of the unfolding tragedy.

This is why I'm a tad apprehensive about this draft. I rate Rankine as I rated Judd then. A clear number one, though back in the day I'd seen little of Luke Hodge. If he's available to us and we don't take him, I'm sure we'll live to regret it. Max King also evokes a similar fear in me. Given our history, the one we end up will probably be a bust and the other will go on to play in multiple premierships. Such is the fate of the saints' supporter. Sigh!!!

My next lengthy post will be an analysis and profile of the sort of personality is drawn to support the saints. It follows on from my piece in which I diagnosed the club with displaying all the traits of someone with Borderline Personality Disorder. I promise it will be interesting if somewhat confronting.
AND, Judd tripped over the wheelbarrow load of paper bags
 
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Thread starter #7
how many years are we going to keep banging on about us not picking Judd .... i reckon we have gone over it a million times already... in 2056 we will still be banging on about it
Just a bit of fun to fill in the time before the serious stuff starts again this Friday and then the draft. Well, let's make it a million and one times we've mentioned it. Triggered? If so, you have my humble apology and I'll try to be more sensitive in the future. And yes, if I'm still around in 2056, I'll still be banging on about it, especially if we haven't landed that second premiership.
 
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Thread starter #8
Ancient Greeks loved a story of torturous futility. Our history always seems apt when trying to relate to them.
Sisyphus also comes to mind when we're relating the fate of mythological Greek figures to following the saints.
 
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The Jack

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#10
how many years are we going to keep banging on about us not picking Judd .... i reckon we have gone over it a million times already... in 2056 we will still be banging on about it
If we still exist and still only have one flag, which is a fair chance by the way, of course we will still be banging on about it. Plus the lead up to 97 GF, the toe poke, and the bounce.

They will all still haunt us.
 

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st_trav_ofWA

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#12
Because that single decision probably cost us 3 flags. At least 2. That’s why.
theres no way to know that ....
more so than not picking Judd our issue at that time was our training services and medical department being sub par ... we were borrowing equipment from suburban footy clubs we had crackpot fitness guys who's great sports fitness ideas included "the players cant wear thongs cause its bad for their calf muscles" and "squats puts too much preassure on the hamstrings" .... we destroyed Luke Ball, crippled Xavier Clarke, botched Aaron Hamill.... had we taken Judd theres every chance his shoulder would have fallen off and his OP put him into a zimmerframe ...
 

Sadsainter

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#13
Chris Judd is so lucky we didn’t choose him . Got to have a decorated career away from the bulls got that is St Kilda fc. Should thank his dad every day he went to that other school
 

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#16
It is worth noting that Fremantle traded Picks 1, 20 and 36 to Hawthorn for Trent Croad and Luke McPharlin before the super draft. Hawthorn then used 1 for Hodge and 36 for Sam Mitchell.

McPharlin was a serviceable player but our selection of Ball over Judd pales into insignificance with what Fremantle did in 2001.
 
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Thread starter #18
U
theres no way to know that ....
more so than not picking Judd our issue at that time was our training services and medical department being sub par ... we were borrowing equipment from suburban footy clubs we had crackpot fitness guys who's great sports fitness ideas included "the players cant wear thongs cause its bad for their calf muscles" and "squats puts too much preassure on the hamstrings" .... we destroyed Luke Ball, crippled Xavier Clarke, botched Aaron Hamill.... had we taken Judd theres every chance his shoulder would have fallen off and his OP put him into a zimmerframe ...
Unfortunately, you are right, St. trav. Bloody training services. In those days the recruiting budget was 70k a year and one morning in 2005, I walked into Cheltenham Physiotherapy. The waiting room was packed. Sitting there were Max, Sam Fisher and Raph. Nothing against the place, but most of their physios were newly graduated or on placement. No guarantee of continuity, while the coughing and spluttering made me hope the players wouldn't catch anything. Another penny pinching move that backfired spectacularly. Interestingly, as soon as Peter Mulkearns came in, squats and other "meat and potatoes" exercises were emphasised. Not surprisingly, soft tissue injuries were significantly reduced.

They were in a lengthy cue and had to wait an age to be seen. It was more like a third world emergency clinic. Compare that to Adelaide, who had altitude rooms, access to a hyperbaric chamber, sleeping quarters on site and several physios from the SISS (SA Institute of Sports Science) on call. That was in 1999. Good Grief!
 

Greg1853

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#19
I alluded to this story in another thread, so here goes the story as promised. It relates to the forces of the universe conspiring against us yet again to deny us one of the AFL's greats, Chris Judd. I'm probably stretching the analysis to a breaking point but bear with me. I've already outlined how WCE gazumped us to snatch him from us on draft day back in 2001, but this story has its genesis in the early seventies and shows just how much the footy gods enjoy tormenting us.

It reminds me of the fable of Tantalus, a character from Greek mythology, whose story gave us the word tantalising. Tantalus was doomed never to reach a bunch of grapes he greatly desired. Every time he reached for them, a gentle breeze would blow and move them just out of his reach. So it went for eternity. Sounds like he must have been a saints' supporter.

Back to the story of Andrew Judd, who with his lovely wife Leslie, sired the dual Brownlow Medallist and premiership captain. A former senior football writer for The Herald (showing our age) and The Age, and colleague of mine, Ken Davis, told me this one. Andrew Judd was a student at Xavier and in the great tradition of that institution's muck up day history, he decided to pull a prank to beat all that preceded it.

The Friday before the HSC exams were due to start, he decided to commandeer a tram from the nearby Kew depot. He simply walked in at the change of the day to the afternoon shift, got in an empty tram and drove it into Barkers Road. None of the staff seemed to notice. He only drove it a few stops before abandoning it and making good his escape. Or so he thought. While the staff didn't notice, a number of disgruntled customers soon started ringing the depot to complain the tram had not stopped for them to be picked up. A quick investigation identified the culprit. Despite having an exemplary academic and behavioural record, Judd senior was expelled on the spot and suffered the inconvenience and humiliation of not being allowed to enter the Xavier campus at Kew to sit his HSC exams. He was forced to do them at the Exhibition Buildings with the great unwashed. He passed comfortably and went on to university.

He vowed that if he ever had a son, he would never allow him to set foot in any Xavier run school. He held to his promise and when the time came for young Chris to choose a school, Xavier was not even considered, despite the offer of a scholarship. The "Men for Men" from Kew take their nepotism and cronyism very seriously and the insult cut deeply from all reports. Apart from the personal affront to the Jesuits, the fact was that Chris was a fine footballer, more than handy cricketer and a high achieving student. He would've brought more glory and bragging rights with him. He and his parents chose Caulfield Grammar, home of the despised protestants.

I've often wondered if Chris had been a Xavier boy, instead of a Caulfield Grammarian, whether GT would have fallen in love with him the way he did with Luke Ball. Maybe he would've instructed JB to grab Judd at pick number 2 instead of waiting for pick 5, which was the plan. Rod Butterssssss was furious we didn't get Judd. He'd coached Chris in juniors and rated him the best junior he'd seen. I'm still bitter about it. I think not drafting him cost us at least one, if not two flags. Not that it was my decision. I just had a very good view of the unfolding tragedy.

This is why I'm a tad apprehensive about this draft. I rate Rankine as I rated Judd then. A clear number one, though back in the day I'd seen little of Luke Hodge. If he's available to us and we don't take him, I'm sure we'll live to regret it. Max King also evokes a similar fear in me. Given our history, the one we end up will probably be a bust and the other will go on to play in multiple premierships. Such is the fate of the saints' supporter. Sigh!!!

My next lengthy post will be an analysis and profile of the sort of personality is drawn to support the saints. It follows on from my piece in which I diagnosed the club with displaying all the traits of someone with Borderline Personality Disorder. I promise it will be interesting if somewhat confronting.

I've heard very, very similar stories from other old time Xavier students, although none involved Andrew Judd, so wonder whether it is one of the old favourites that just get attributed to many down the years. I'm even related to someone who claims to have been on a tram when "borrowed" by a fellow xavier student from the depot upon shift change-over. That relative was thrown out of Xavier, but over another issue.

Also not sure that GT has much fondness for Xavs at all, although I know he tried to nurture all the talent he came across, which included some Xav's boys. Only the other day I bumped into a guy I played with under GT at Xavs, and who is from one of the exalted Xav families, and he regaled me with some of GT's antics. He really was quite loose, and on the grog was a nightmare, but his time at Old Xavs was very short.
 
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Thread starter #20
I've heard very, very similar stories from other old time Xavier students, although none involved Andrew Judd, so wonder whether it is one of the old favourites that just get attributed to many down the years. I'm even related to someone who claims to have been on a tram when "borrowed" by a fellow xavier student from the depot upon shift change-over. That relative was thrown out of Xavier, but over another issue.

Also not sure that GT has much fondness for Xavs at all, although I know he tried to nurture all the talent he came across, which included some Xav's boys. Only the other day I bumped into a guy I played with under GT at Xavs, and who is from one of the exalted Xav families, and he regaled me with some of GT's antics. He really was quite loose, and on the grog was a nightmare, but his time at Old Xavs was very short.
Never said GT was fond of the Xavs. I said he was very fond of Luke Ball. The fact Bally was a good Catholic boy like GT (St.Bede's Old Boy) was my point. As for the story, Ken Davis wrote it up at the time, without naming the culprit. I'll back him in. I don't doubt it was a popular prank back in the day. Urban legend? Perhaps, but I doubt Ken would stick his neck out for a fabrication. Muck up pranks at Xavier were well known and reported on even back then. Trams then, more likely to be drug dealing, hijacked helicopters, and social media scandals now.

It's a bit like the number of people who claim to have been at the end of the tied test at the 'Gabba back in the 60-61 series against the West Indies. I played cricket with the sons of the man who took the photo of the run out that ended the game, Ray Lovitt Senior. It was used on the cover of scorebooks for decades. Anyhoo, Ray claimed he'd met countless people who told him they were there at the end. He reckons there would've been lucky to be a couple of thousand there, whereas if everyone who claimed to be there when they said they were, they wouldn't have squeezed the crowd into the MCG!

Memory is a strange beast. I recently met a lawyer who in the course of a casual conversation about psychological issues around bullying and the legal risks to organisations, boasted about an article he'd written that was published in an industry journal. Pity for him was that I knew the author of said article personally and had collaborated with him in the past. I did string him along. I told him it sounded fascinating and that he should tell me where I could read a copy. I think he caught on quickly. End of conversation as he excused himself and beat a hasty retreat!
 
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#22
It is worth noting that Fremantle traded Picks 1, 20 and 36 to Hawthorn for Trent Croad and Luke McPharlin before the super draft. Hawthorn then used 1 for Hodge and 36 for Sam Mitchell.

McPharlin was a serviceable player but our selection of Ball over Judd pales into insignificance with what Fremantle did in 2001.
And of course Croad did a Dayne Beams on them.
 
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Thread starter #23
So you disputing my claim that i was there the day the Hindenburg went down? Oh the humanity!

And Tantalus is my first 1st cousin!
So it's you we can blame? The Greeks were the inventors of pathos, amongst many other things. Has there ever been a word that better describes the "St.Kilda Condition?"
 

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#24
So it's you we can blame? The Greeks were the inventors of pathos, amongst many other things. Has there ever been a word that better describes the "St.Kilda Condition?"
I reckon Diogenes would have been a textbook Saint supporter, if the AFL had have existed way back a few hundred years BC
 

st_trav_ofWA

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#25
And of course Croad did a Dayne Beams on them.
that was just the tip of the iceberg of mounmental stuff ups Freo did ... they seem to have sorted that issue out now days but boy back in the day there were three certaintys in live Death Taxes and Freo doing something stupid in the trade period ..
 
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