Research Small questions that don't require a whole thread

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Michael Riley

Team Captain
Jun 17, 2012
366
305
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Brighton VFA
I have a question about the 1877 season.

Because Senior teams games against Junior Teams counted toward the Metropolitan premiership, does this mean that the games by the players in the Junior teams count as VFA games.

Eg Alexander McCracken played for Essendon against Melbourne on the 4th of August. This game counted toward the Premiership.

Does that count as a VFA game for McCracken or should only games from players in senior teams be counted toward their all-time totals?

I am in two minds. It is not truly a senior game, but it was a vfa game.
 

killer

Club Legend
Feb 23, 2001
1,890
254
a van down by the river
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Re including games played against junior teams in ladder stats, but not the actual junior teams in the ladder standings

On what basis would you be able to set up a junior team and get a game against a senior one
would you have to recognised by the VFA, or just pay money to someone?

I wouldn't include them. However it might resolve a historical anomaly to do so.


 

Michael Riley

Team Captain
Jun 17, 2012
366
305
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Brighton VFA
On what basis would you be able to set up a junior team and get a game against a senior one
The Early years of the VFA did not restrict teams to only playing other teams in the competition. You could play anyone you wanted.

In 1877 there was also a division between Metropolitan and Country teams. Barwon and Geelong were Country teams, just like Ballarat and Bendigo. There were effectively two premierships, a country and a metro.

In 1877 the VFA Senior teams played a mixture of games against senior and Junior teams, Junior teams were usually played at a 20 men v 25 men handicap.
All games were counted toward toward the premiership. For example I have listed Hotham's games below.

So Keilor v Hotham counted toward the premiership. Also noting that this was still an unofficial premiership as the VFA did not yet nominate a premier, it was still just decided by the newspapers. The VFA did not set the premier until 1888.

So in actuality this early era has a lot of difficulty

19-May​
Excelsior v Hotham
2-Jun​
Melbourne v Hotham
9-Jun​
Hotham v Hotham United
16-Jun​
Hotham v Hotham Hill
23-Jun​
Hotham v Excelsior
30-Jun​
Keilor v Hotham
7-Jul​
Carlton v Hotham
14-Jul​
Hotham v Keilor
21-Jul​
Hotham v Melbourne
28-Jul​
Albert Park v Hotham
11-Aug​
Barwon v Hotham
18-Aug​
Carlton v Hotham
1-Sep​
Hotham v Albert Park
8-Sep​
Melbourne v Hotham
15-Sep​
Hotham v Hotham United
 

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Michael Riley

Team Captain
Jun 17, 2012
366
305
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Brighton VFA
In 1877 Essendon played five matches against senior teams. Essendon was one of the strongest Junior teams in 1877 and became a senior team in 1878.

In my VFA database I will have Alexander McKracken playing a number of these 1877 matches. If I am trying to give a number of VFA games that McKracken played, then would these count...or would they only count if he played for one of the senior teams.

19-Mayv Vic Railways
24-Mayv Albian (Ballarat)
26-Mayv Standard (25)
2-Junv Williamstown
9/06/1877v Albert Park
16/06/1877v St.Kilda
23-Junv South Melbourne
7-JulVic Railways
14-Julv West Melbourne
21-Julv Northcote
28/07/1877v St.Kilda
4/08/1877v Melbourne
18-Augv Hawthorn
25-Augv West Melbourne
8-Sepv Northcote
15/09/1877v Carlton
22-Sepv South Melbourne
 

Daniel B

Senior List
Apr 3, 2011
269
168
AFL Club
Sydney
Interested in viewing substitution stats from 2011-2015. I can find out the single-most red-vested player (Xavier Ellis), but where can I find a bigger leader board on this stat?
 

ThePope

Premiership Player
Jun 23, 2003
3,544
210
32º 03'S 115º 45'E
AFL Club
Fremantle
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South Fremantle
Interested in viewing substitution stats from 2011-2015. I can find out the single-most red-vested player (Xavier Ellis), but where can I find a bigger leader board on this stat?
AFL Tables has the lists ie 2011. Copy and paste each season into excel, split the SU column into separate columns (text to column function) and start analysing. Note that you'll need to manually adjust the 2 Scott Thompsons and any other duplicate names as excel will treat them as one.

OK, I did it myself.

I actually get David Hale, with 14 red vests ahead of Matt Taberner and Ben Griffiths with 11 then Ellis with 10, equal to Nick Suban, Dawson Simpson, Kurt Tippett, Charlie Dixon, Max Bailey, Lachlan Hansen and Matt White.
Aaron Young in the lead for green vests with 21, ahead of Jonathan Simpkin with 19 and Giansiracusa with 17, Hartung & Jarryd Lyons with 16.

Most Red + Green total is Young 22 (from 42 games, 52%!) , Simpkin, Savage, Gia, Suban & White on 21.

Most games between 2011 and 2015 without ever donning a red or green vest was Ted Richards with 120 games. Shaun Burgoyne & Sydney's Josh Kennedy played 122 & 121 games but each were red vested once.
Others who played 100 games without a vest are Westhoff 112, Houli 111, Dusty & North's Scott Thompson 110, Kade Simpson 109, Sidebottom 107, Adcock, Chaplin & Roughead 106, Rance 105, Firrito 104.
Caolan Mooney played 6 games - green vest in 5, red in the other - the most games with 100% vesting.
 
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Todman

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 7, 2004
6,881
5,463
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Is this accurate?

Last active player from each decade:

1990s – Brent Harvey – Elimination Final 2016
1980s – Robert Harvey – Preliminary Final 2008
1970s – Roger Merrett – Preliminary Final 1996
1960s – Bruce Doull – Grand Final 1986
1950s – (unknown, perhaps Kevin Murray?)
1940s – (unknown)
1930s – (unknown, surely not Dick Reynolds?)
1920s – Alby Morrison – Semi Final 1946
1910s – Bill Cubbins – Round 5 1934
1900s – Dave McNamara – Round 18 1923
1890s – Vic Cumberland – Round 16 1920
1940's is probably Peter Lucas of Collingwood. debut 1949 til last game First Semi Final in 1959

change that

Jim Taylor of South Melbourne 1949 until round 16 , 1961
 
Last edited:

Daniel B

Senior List
Apr 3, 2011
269
168
AFL Club
Sydney
AFL Tables has the lists ie 2011. Copy and paste each season into excel, split the SU column into separate columns (text to column function) and start analysing. Note that you'll need to manually adjust the 2 Scott Thompsons and any other duplicate names as excel will treat them as one.

OK, I did it myself.
Great work, Pope, you're a boss.
 

benji2

Club Legend
May 19, 2011
1,985
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Adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
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Glenelg, Sheffield Wednesday
Tristan Xerri has been named in North's extended squad this weekend. Has any other player with a surname beginning with 'X' ever played in the VFL/AFL, or any of the other major leagues for that matter?

On LG-K500 using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Connor7395

Independent
May 23, 2010
448
264
AFL Club
Melbourne
Tristan Xerri has been named in North's extended squad this weekend. Has any other player with a surname beginning with 'X' ever played in the VFL/AFL, or any of the other major leagues for that matter?

On LG-K500 using BigFooty.com mobile app
Xerri would be the first player to do so in the VFL/AFL.
The VFA Project doesn't list a player with a surname beginning with X, but gathering that data is far from done.
WAFL Footy Facts has no entries. This database is complete from 1965 onwards and has a significant chunk from before then.
 

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Gibbsy

Moderator
Oct 12, 2009
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Was having a look through them earlier, I don't think they include the Best, just the scores.
Ah okay, did you have a particular game you were interested in? I have a Newspapers.com subscription where I can access Age/SMH from the 90s.
 

kdavva74

Hotel? Trivago.
Jul 23, 2015
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Ah okay, did you have a particular game you were interested in? I have a Newspapers.com subscription where I can access Age/SMH from the 90s.
Nah I'm looking for pretty much the whole season. I've got Hypothetical State of Origin sides that I collate from 2000 to now but I wanted to try and expand into the 90s.
 

GreyCrow

TheBrownDog
Mar 21, 2016
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Has there ever been an actual wooden spoon the league used to hand to teams?
No

Its always been an honourific rather than a specific item. Various people have donated ''wooden spoons ' over time

Wooden spoon seems to come from Cambridge University in England where the lowest graded member of a class would be gifted it

ie 1863 obit claims http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-page17535108


Judge Cresswell was not distin
guished at college, having gained the honor
of " wooden spoon,"
but ou the Northern
Fix this textcircuit he showed his real merits, having
held his- own well and honorably against
snch men as Scarlet, Brougham, Campbell,
Alderson. He is succeded by Baron Wilde,
 

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