Research Small questions that don't require a whole thread

[35Daicos]

Once again, 35Daicos, many, many thanks for answering my question.
I actually have every edition of the AFL Record Season Guide and should've researched it instead Google/Trove.

I also checked out the match reports on what seem to be the "main footy papers" on Trove and found nothing, so I do wonder where the AFL got that from.

Incidentally, there was this thread on BF/Footy History a few months back: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/clubs-first-goalkickers.1216265/

 

[FitzroyPete]

Recording each club's first goalkicker is certainly research to the nth-degree, 35Daicos.
Some of the Trove material can be a little hard to read, but I daresay even in 1897 each club had a dedicated statistician/records-keeper with the same fascination for stats that you, me and many others on BigFooty possess.
The AFL Record Season Guide is a wonderful resource, though it's sometimes hard sorting through the Index to find the information one's after.

 

[Supermercado]

Have been thinking about players or coaches that were elected to Parliament during their career.

Brian Dixon (elected to Victorian parliament in 1964) and Darrel Baldock (Tasmanian parliament from 1972) both played and coached during their stints in politics and Phil Cleary (Federal parliament 1992) coached Coburg the same year he was elected.

Are there any others who had both a football and politics career at the same time? I expect, but am ready to be proven wrong, that Dixon is the only man to play a VFL Grand Final while a sitting MP.

 

[tandino]

Why is a goal worth 6 points?

The obvious answer is that it stems from Cricket but I've never seen anything definitive in that regard.

 

[GreyCrow]

Why is a goal worth 6 points?

The obvious answer is that it stems from Cricket but I've never seen anything definitive in that regard.

24 March 1897

1 May 1897
As you can see some still had trouble with it. I have Brighton winning unless the Melbourne score should have been 5.9.39



This article suggests its more in line with Rugby

 

[Supermercado]

Have had a question from somebody researching early years of football that hoping for help on from the community. We know about Tom Wills' famous letter to Bell's Life in Victoria, but the theory is that the letter was all but forgotten for the next 100 hundred years and not discussed in connection to the founding of the game until rediscovered in the late 1950s.

I've tried to find mention of it elsewhere on Trove but can't see anything - it's not to say there wasn't thought given to cricketers keeping fit in winter but it doesn't look like there was much credit given to Wills' letter until it reemerged and became part of the game's folklore.

 

[Supermercado]

24 March 1897
View attachment 844640
1 May 1897
As you can see some still had trouble with it. I have Brighton winning unless the Melbourne score should have been 5.9.39

View attachment 844646

I reckon the paper has just printed the scores the wrong way around and it's supposed to be Melbourne 36 d. Brighton 33. Need a better source to confirm this, because the above report is the only one I've seen on Trove.

 

[Supermercado]

Could somebody with primo access to birthdates please confirm that of Max Spittle. Officials records have him as 13 June 1922 but war records have him as 13 June 1920 (also this one).

This article calls him 25 in 1948 (though by October 1948 he would have turned 26 but near enough). I expect there has been a transcription error from the record itself to the listing on the archives but just want to confirm he was a 1922.

 

[35Daicos]

Could somebody with primo access to birthdates please confirm that of Max Spittle. Officials records have him as 13 June 1922 but war records have him as 13 June 1920 (also this one).

This article calls him 25 in 1948 (though by October 1948 he would have turned 26 but near enough). I expect there has been a transcription error from the record itself to the listing on the archives but just want to confirm he was a 1922.

There is this: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/177907419

While I don't really trust what I see on Ancestry it has this for him:

His death notice says he was 94 (in June 2015): https://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/tributes/notice/death-notices/spittle-maxwell-thomas/4550294/

They still had 13/06/1922 as a DOB on the obituaries page in the 2016 AFL Season Guide.

 

[Supermercado]

There is this: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/177907419

They still had 13/06/1922 as a DOB on the obituaries page in the 2016 AFL Season Guide.

Thanks for looking into this, I'm altering his birthdate to 1920.

Next question to the room, can anyone find evidence of a South Yarra Football Club in the late 1910s? We've got a player called Harry Selover who is shown from South Yarra but looking through Trove I can't find any mention of that being a real club so I think it's just where he lived.

 

[35Daicos]

Thanks for looking into this, I'm altering his birthdate to 1920.

Next question to the room, can anyone find evidence of a South Yarra Football Club in the late 1910s? We've got a player called Harry Selover who is shown from South Yarra but looking through Trove I can't find any mention of that being a real club so I think it's just where he lived.

This is in the 1919 Rd. 9 Football Record:


You probably have seen this: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/202437648

 

[Supermercado]

This is in the 1919 Rd. 9 Football Record:
View attachment 872612

You probably have seen this: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/202437648
View attachment 872617

Thanks, there must have been one but I couldn't find any mention of what competition they played in. I do see now that Melbourne played a practice match against South Yarra in 1910 so it's feasible that there was one.

 

[35Daicos]

Thanks, there must have been one but I couldn't find any mention of what competition they played in. I do see now that Melbourne played a practice match against South Yarra in 1910 so it's feasible that there was one.

This may provide the answer: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/165119153 (24 May 1919)

Perhaps that ^ refers to a newly-formed club? However, there certainly was a South Yarra Football Club at the time the First World War started: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/165419646 (3 February 1920)


Harry Selover did also live at South Yarra at the time he played for Melbourne:

He was Henry Thomas (Harry) Selover.

 

[Supermercado]

He did also live at South Yarra at the time he played for Melbourne:
View attachment 872679
He was Henry Thomas (Harry) Selover.

Thanks for this, must have been desperate times if we were recruiting plumbers.

 

[Lemon Boi]

Who was available for transfer under the Ten Year Rule in 1972?

Barry Davis, John Rantall and Doug Wade all went to North Melbourne.
Carl Ditterich went to Melbourne.
Kevin Murray and John Nicholls were less than a season away from 300 games, so were very unlikely to leave.

But who else was eligible? I’ve read an article that says 26 were, but only lists the four that did transfer.

 

[35Daicos]

Who was available for transfer under the Ten Year Rule in 1972?

Barry Davis, John Rantall and Doug Wade all went to North Melbourne.
Carl Ditterich went to Melbourne.
Kevin Murray and John Nicholls were less than a season away from 300 games, so were very unlikely to leave.

But who else was eligible? I’ve read an article that says 26 were, but only lists the four that did transfer.

This is in the Football Record:

The Record suggests (in another article) that 6 players (of the 26 eligible) changed clubs under that rule. Adrian Gallagher (Carlton to Footscray) appears to be the other player.

I can't find a list of all those eligible, but it should be out there somewhere!

 

[Lemon Boi]

This is in the Football Record:
View attachment 872965
The Record suggests (in another article) that 6 players (of the 26 eligible) changed clubs under that rule. Adrian Gallagher (Carlton to Footscray) appears to be the other player, but Gareth Andrews (Geelong to Richmond) could be another?

I can't find a list of all those eligible, but it should be out there somewhere!

Other players I can think of that had at least ten years experience by 1972 are: Kevin Bartlett, Sam Newman and Ross Smith.

(P.S.)
When was the rule scrapped?

 

[Lemon Boi]

Both of these games featured the teams combining for 27 scoring shots in the 2nd quarter.

Collingwood vs. Geelong – Round 9 1980, Victoria Park (8.10 to 6.3)
Richmond vs. Essendon – Round 3 1982, M.C.G. (8.7 to 6.6)

Has there ever been more scoring shots in a single quarter?

 

[killer]

This is in the Football Record:
View attachment 872965
The Record suggests (in another article) that 6 players (of the 26 eligible) changed clubs under that rule. Adrian Gallagher (Carlton to Footscray) appears to be the other player.

I can't find a list of all those eligible, but it should be out there somewhere!

David parkin, Jon nicholls, kevin murray, carl dittrich, garth andrews, Adrian Gallagher , bissett, davis. rantell, wade, Don McKenzie, Bob Murray
russell crow, Roger dean, norm brown, Kevin Hall, John Townsend, Ross Smith, Terry Waters, Ted Potter, Daryl Gerlach, Charlie Payne, Bill Ryan, Ken Beck, Barry bourke,

 

[35Daicos]

David parkin, Jon nicholls, kevin murray, carl dittrich, garth andrews, Adrian Gallagher , bissett, davis. rantell, wade, Don McKenzie, Bob Murray
russell crow, Roger dean, norm brown, Kevin Hall, John Townsend, Ross Smith, Terry Waters, Ted Potter, Daryl Gerlach, Charlie Paine, Bill Ryan, Ken Beck, Barry bourke,

Good one! Thanks for that.

So that's 25 names. While I have seen a couple of reports that said there were 22 players, 26 seems to be the correct figure. Is there one more name that you may have missed?

 

[35Daicos]

Both of these games featured the teams combining for 27 scoring shots in the 2nd quarter.

Collingwood vs. Geelong – Round 9 1980, Victoria Park (8.10 to 6.3)
Richmond vs. Essendon – Round 3 1982, M.C.G. (8.7 to 6.6)

Has there ever been more scoring shots in a single quarter?

29 scoring shots in a quarter is the all-time best for two teams combined: https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1977/101519770507.html

That was also in the 2nd quarter.

27 scoring shots in a quarter is the next best. It has occurred 4 times:

AFL Tables - South Melbourne v Collingwood - Sat, 29-Apr-1939 2:45 PM - Match Stats

afltables.com

1st quarter

AFL Tables - Collingwood v Geelong - Sat, 24-May-1980 2:10 PM - Match Stats

afltables.com

2nd quarter

AFL Tables - Richmond v Essendon - Mon, 12-Apr-1982 2:10 PM - Match Stats

afltables.com

2nd quarter

AFL Tables - Brisbane Bears v Geelong - Sun, 14-Apr-1991 2:10 PM - Match Stats

afltables.com

2nd quarter

 

[35Daicos]

Other players I can think of that had at least ten years experience by 1972 are: Kevin Bartlett, Sam Newman and Ross Smith.

(P.S.)
When was the rule scrapped?

Bartlett and Newman may well have spent ten years at their clubs by the end of 1972 but hadn't played senior football for that length of time, so I imagine they didn't qualify for that reason. Ross Smith did.

The rule was effectively scrapped by mid-May 1973, so it lasted only a few months. This is from the 1973 Rd. 7 Football Record:

 

[Lemon Boi]

Is this accurate?

Last active player from each decade:

1990s – Brent Harvey – Elimination Final 2016
1980s – Robert Harvey – Preliminary Final 2008
1970s – Roger Merrett – Preliminary Final 1996
1960s – Bruce Doull – Grand Final 1986
1950s – (unknown, perhaps Kevin Murray?)
1940s – (unknown)
1930s – (unknown, surely not Dick Reynolds?)
1920s – Alby Morrison – Semi Final 1946
1910s – Bill Cubbins – Round 5 1934
1900s – Dave McNamara – Round 18 1923
1890s – Vic Cumberland – Round 16 1920

 

[35Daicos]

Thanks, there must have been one but I couldn't find any mention of what competition they played in. I do see now that Melbourne played a practice match against South Yarra in 1910 so it's feasible that there was one.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/154820174 (17 July 1915)

 

[Supermercado]

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/154820174 (17 July 1915)
View attachment 873742

Thanks, that probably explains it. Likely they were South Yarra players pre-war.