Smith Machine Bench Press

[Schism]

What are peoples opinions on flat and incline benching in a (quality) smith machine?I've been using this technique since i started training again a few months ago.My chest strength and size has improved dramatically (even before my first cycle).After years of struggling with normal bench and dumbell presses (including 60kg dumbells at one point),which always seemed to just smash my delts and triceps no matter how i approached it,i've seen the light.When using the smith all i can feel is my pecs actually working.I also only come down to about 3-4 inchest of the chest,again to protect my poor creaking shoulder joints.

Some people see this is a bit of a weak effort or cheating,but i've always trained for results and couldn't care less what people think.

Anyone else using this style with good results?

 

[Kong]

I bet you were just hanging out for me to post.

Interesting that you say your delts/tris carry most of the load on regular bench/dumbbell press; I have the same problem with Bench. I can load the bench up to some pretty respectable weights and lift it with perfect form, but my chest barely gets a workout in comparison to my delts especially.

Dumbbells have by far worked the best for isolating my chest, however...

I've had best results for incline in the Smith. I'm like you, by the sounds of it, in that I've learned to aim for muscle stimulation as opposed to impressing the footy jocks watching me.

On the Smith, I do what can be referred to as '3/4 reps'; I stop just below it reaches my chest, and just before the lock-out position on the way up. The continuous tension, and lowered dependence on my shoulders for stablisation have worked wonders for my chest.

 

[Schism]

I bet you were just hanging out for me to post.

Interesting that you say your delts/tris carry most of the load on regular bench/dumbbell press; I have the same problem with Bench. I can load the bench up to some pretty respectable weights and lift it with perfect form, but my chest barely gets a workout in comparison to my delts especially.

Dumbbells have by far worked the best for isolating my chest, however...

I've had best results for incline in the Smith. I'm like you, by the sounds of it, in that I've learned to aim for muscle stimulation as opposed to impressing the footy jocks watching me.

On the Smith, I do what can be referred to as '3/4 reps'; I stop just below it reaches my chest, and just before the lock-out position on the way up. The continuous tension, and lowered dependence on my shoulders for stablisation have worked wonders for my chest.

Dumbells did work better than normal bench,but still smashed my shoulders,and because my tri's are so big/strong (not bragging,it's just genetics,i'm lucky - my bi's are shit though),they take over.Smith benching seems to be avoiding this nicely.

I tried all the pro benching techniques to be found on youtube,respectable sites and even powerlifters i know.It's all bullshit,the only technique that worked virtually turns flat benching into decline benching,the hips are so far off the bench.I don't need or like decline benching so i turned to the smith machine as a last resort.

Hey whomb by the way,doing behind-the-neck lat pulldowns is what turned my shoulders to mush.If only i knew then what i know now....

 

[Kong]

Hey whomb by the way,doing behind-the-neck lat pulldowns is what turned my shoulders to mush.If only i knew then what i know now....

Is that in response to a conversation we've had before?

 

[Schism]

Is that in response to a conversation we've had before?

Not really,just a comment from one experienced lifter to another on one of the more common pitfalls of early weight training

 

[Schism]

Ah, fair call.

I'll pay that, and add Upright Rows to the list. I tried these for about two weeks in my early days; long enough to realise that while they're probably more 'functional' than the exercises I do now, they were going to get me ruined-for-life rotator cuffs, if nothing else.

I've had a shoulder 'niggle' that I've had to work around since before I lifted a weight, but I've learned to do so so much that I'm barely inconvenienced anymore.

I'll tell you what is a killer at the end of a workout. If you do triceps last in a workout (I do bis then tris), follow your last exercise (for me, it's usually just cable pushdowns) with close-grip (by that I mean hands touching each other) push-ups, hands on a bench and legs on the ground, with a '3/4'-like range of motion. By the end of it your triceps should be absolutely bursting out of your skin.

I follow my last few sets with this, and on more than one occasion I've passed the point of muscle failure so that I've landed face-first on the bench. Amusing for others probably, but **** me it's a great feeling.

I might try it,although @ 120 odd kg,i struggle with any grip closer than about 6 inches apart,the wrists just can't handle it.

A standard tri routine for me will be close-grip bench,with aforementioned wider than usual grip.As long as the elbows are tucked in it's fine.Then cable pushdowns,then rope pulldowns.Sometimes i'll do either single-handed french press or skullcrushers too

edit: yeah upright rows are insanely shite,i can feel pain just thinking about them.i too did them for a while years ago

 

[Kong]

I might try it,although @ 120 odd kg,i struggle with any grip closer than about 6 inches apart,the wrists just can't handle it.

A standard tri routine for me will be close-grip bench,with aforementioned wider than usual grip.As long as the elbows are tucked in it's fine.Then cable pushdowns,then rope pulldowns.Sometimes i'll do either single-handed french press or skullcrushers too

Fair enough.

I've actually had problems with skull crushers; if I don't do them perfectly (yet in an unorthodox manner, if that can work) I get a few problems in my right elbow. It just seems to flare up every now and then, so I only do skulls for a few weeks at a time.

Lately I've been using a routine made up of Seated French Press, Incline overhead Pushdowns, Standing close-grip Pushdowns and Close-grip Incline Push-Ups.

edit: yeah upright rows are insanely shite,i can feel pain just thinking about them.i too did them for a while years ago

I see aforementioned footy jocks do them (just after bouncing out 'heavy' sets on the Bench) with each other; I told one once to stay clear of them, but I don't like being 'that' guy too much, so I've let the others ruin their shoulders.

 

[Schism]

heh we must be distantly related or something - skullcrushers hurt my elbows too,which is why i only do them from time to time.

 

[mcuzzy]

My triceps were reborn when I started doing skullcrushers.

 

[Spluff]

Ultimately smith machine bench press is far better than say smith machine squats (in that it won't injure you), but by taking most of the load off your stabilizers it will leave you little in practical strength, and your free weight bench press will suffer also due to the weakened stabilizers.

To add insult to the loss of practical strength, total muscle gains will be less as a smith bench press recruits a lot less muscles than a regular bench press, and as the bench press is the main upper body compound lift it will really hurt your growth.

 

[Schism]

Ultimately smith machine bench press is far better than say smith machine squats (in that it won't injure you), but by taking most of the load off your stabilizers it will leave you little in practical strength, and your free weight bench press will suffer also due to the weakened stabilizers.

To add insult to the loss of practical strength, total muscle gains will be less as a smith bench press recruits a lot less muscles than a regular bench press, and as the bench press is the main upper body compound lift it will really hurt your growth.

While this is a good technical statement to blurt out to newbies,it simply doesn't fly in the face of experience.Sorry but it is garbage.

Read my original post.Clearly smith benching is getting me better results to free benching,and it certainly isn't for lack of effort in free benching over the years.I'm 32,not 17.

Functional strength isn't important at this stage.I don't play any contact sports.I'm ex-army so i know what proper functional strength is.

If i am benching 160 on a smith machine,sure that might equate to 130 or 140 on a free bench,but am i really losing anything?Most people would be pretty happy with 160 or even 140 for that matter in any form of bench press.The problem is even with heavy free bench it wasn't getting me the desired results and was in fact detrimental to chest development.Everyone is different.

 

[Oberfuhrer Abetz]

On the Smith, I do what can be referred to as '3/4 reps'; I stop just below it reaches my chest, and just before the lock-out position on the way up. The continuous tension, and lowered dependence on my shoulders for stablisation have worked wonders for my chest.

You ever tried something similar for the squat? chinese or cyclist squats I think they are called. You do a normal squat but only come up 1/4 of the way and then drop back down and then come up fully.

Couldn't walk straight after those.

 

[Spluff]

Functional strength isn't important at this stage.I don't play any contact sports.I'm ex-army so i know what proper functional strength is.

Well obviously if you're not actually doing it for any reason it doesn't matter how you do it, but everything I wrote in that post is 100% fact.

 

[Schism]

Well obviously if you're not actually doing it for any reason it doesn't matter how you do it, but everything I wrote in that post is 100% fact.

The truth as you see it,or have read it

As i said,only the end result matters.If i'm benching 160 in a smith machine,and you're benching 100 or 120 free,who has more 'functional' strength,and how do you test it?By putting us in a cage fight?By seeing who can do the biggest fend-off in a game of rugby?The word functional is overrated,and i used to be a believer myself.Until i realised it doesn't really mean anything unless you are training a particular muscle for a specific,defined reason ie:MMA or Rugby.In real life,few of us who do weights will ever actually need the strength or size for any specific purpose,which means functionality as you define it is redundant.

 

[Schism]

Anyone tried any 5x5 systems like the Starr one?

 

[mcuzzy]

Wait, doesnt the smith machine mean there is less effort in trying to keep the bar in the right position alligned to your body and keeping it stable?

That's why I got told to do dumbell presses, more isolation and effort to keep them up because they can easily go all over the place..

 

[Fire Storm]

Anyone tried any 5x5 systems like the Starr one?

Yes, I posted the Bill Starr routine on the other thread about working out.

Pretty boys here though prefer their one bodypart per week stuff and wonder why they get beat still on the football field.

 

[Schism]

Wait, doesnt the smith machine mean there is less effort in trying to keep the bar in the right position alligned to your body and keeping it stable?

That's why I got told to do dumbell presses, more isolation and effort to keep them up because they can easily go all over the place..

Yes as has been said,free bench and dumbell press will use more stabiliser muscles.I'm not interested in building stabiliser muscles,i'm interested in building my chest.

Yes, I posted the Bill Starr routine on the other thread about working out.

Pretty boys here though prefer their one bodypart per week stuff and wonder why they get beat still on the football field.

The pretty boy routine has worked for me for years - my split atm goes:

day 1 - chest
day 2 - back/forearms
day 3 - rest
day 4 - shoulders
day 5 - tri/bi
day 6 - legs (just light mucking around,chronic knee probs atm)
day 7 - rest

Works for me,i'm big by anyones standards

The 5x5 routines i've tried were good for strength,but not so much for size.The size comes when you apply the strength gained in a 5x5 phase to a more traditional split phase.In my opinion

 

[Kong]

Yes, I posted the Bill Starr routine on the other thread about working out.

Pretty boys here though prefer their one bodypart per week stuff and wonder why they get beat still on the football field.

Works for me, too.

I don't work out for strength, though; pure mass is my objective.

 

[Spluff]

Typically, 5x5 programs are based mainly around the main lifts to help people get into powerlifting, but this doesn't mean you can't put on alot of size with them if you want to - I believe Reg Park used primarily a 5x5 program.

 

[Doctor Feel]

I tend to give the smith machine a miss entirely. Machines with a fixed path can force you into positions your body shouldn't be in as it moves on a fixed path.

Weights in the real world as you are lifting them, don't travel on fixed paths.
Call me a naturalist and a free weights buff, but anyway!

As for the alternative, the free standing barbell, it's a natural movement and should have better practical applications.

However, I guess the smith machine is a good idea if you are training alone, but for goodness sake don't spend an hour on the smith machine doing every variant of chest and shoulder press known to man on the damn smith machine, stick to free weights and barbell bench press as it will increase your grip and forearm strength.

End rant

 

[Schism]

I tend to give the smith machine a miss entirely. Machines with a fixed path can force you into positions your body shouldn't be in as it moves on a fixed path.

Weights in the real world as you are lifting them, don't travel on fixed paths.
Call me a naturalist and a free weights buff, but anyway!

As for the alternative, the free standing barbell, it's a natural movement and should have better practical applications.

However, I guess the smith machine is a good idea if you are training alone, but for goodness sake don't spend an hour on the smith machine doing every variant of chest and shoulder press known to man on the damn smith machine, stick to free weights and barbell bench press as it will increase your grip and forearm strength.

End rant

Urban myths mate...

Sure squats and rows on the smith machine are dangerous,but bench pressing,and shoulder pressing is fine.In fact it is a natural movement - you're pressing something straight up and down,and in my case,the length of movement isn't high,as i stop about 2-3 inches above my chest.There is a solid argument made by many experts that free flat bench is virtually useless for building chest for many people,and that only incline bench is needed.I laughed at that years ago,but i believe it now.

As for grip and forearm strength,suggesting free bench has any effect at all is silly really.For example i do 60kg dumbell shrugs for traps/forearms,so how is free benching going to have any effect on my grip or forearms?If you had said heavy barbell rows,then yeah,but benching has a negligible impact on grip and forearms.I mean the bar is basically sitting in your hands,you don't have to grip it firmly at all,especially with with a thumbs-under style grip.

 

[Fire Storm]

If you can't gain weight doing a 5x5 routine, you either eat like a pussie, workout like one, or both.


A quote from CS Sloan, another proponet of the 3 days a week whole body routine:

Bill Starr Had the best comment about bodybuilders who have lots of size but lack the strength and power : They're no more then physiacal abominations - facades, fakes - for muscle equals strength, and if a person doesn't have sufficient strength to back up those showy muscles, he's a joke.

That might sound harsh to all of you who believe that size and shape should prevail over strength, but it's the truth. Those who don't want to believe it are afraid of hard work, afraid to do the brutal exercises taht build powerful lower-back, leg and hip muscles.

 

[Kong]

I couldn't care less about what that guy has to say, to be honest.

I did laugh when he said bodybuilders don't know anything about 'hard work'. What a fool.

 

[Doctor Feel]

Urban myths mate...

Sure squats and rows on the smith machine are dangerous,but bench pressing,and shoulder pressing is fine.In fact it is a natural movement - you're pressing something straight up and down,and in my case,the length of movement isn't high,as i stop about 2-3 inches above my chest.There is a solid argument made by many experts that free flat bench is virtually useless for building chest for many people,and that only incline bench is needed.I laughed at that years ago,but i believe it now.

As for grip and forearm strength,suggesting free bench has any effect at all is silly really.For example i do 60kg dumbell shrugs for traps/forearms,so how is free benching going to have any effect on my grip or forearms?If you had said heavy barbell rows,then yeah,but benching has a negligible impact on grip and forearms.I mean the bar is basically sitting in your hands,you don't have to grip it firmly at all,especially with with a thumbs-under style grip.

I was suggesting dumbbells in general, not particularly the bench press, sorry I didn't clarify.