Smith, Root, Williamson, Kohli

Who is/will be the 'batsman of their generation'?

  • Steve Smith

    Votes: 79 52.3%

  • Joe Root

    Votes: 13 8.6%

  • Kane Williamson

    Votes: 27 17.9%

  • Virat Kohli

    Votes: 29 19.2%

  • Other (please specify)

    Votes: 3 2.0%
  • Total voters
    151

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JackOutback said:
Nostalgia might be affecting your view of past bowlers, too. Ponting plundered many a mediocre attack. Also, does Smith use a larger bat?
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Yeah Tendulkar, Lara and Kallis spent their careers plandering bums like Ambrose, Donald, McGrath, Warne, Murili, Akram, Waqar. Has there been a bowler in the last 5-10 years who even deserves to be mentioned among those names?
 
Schraderbrau said:
Yeah Tendulkar, Lara and Kallis spent their careers plandering bums like Ambrose, Donald, McGrath, Warne, Murili, Akram, Waqar. Has there been a bowler in the last 5-10 years who even deserves to be mentioned among those names?
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They did for the first part of their careers. Not so much in the last 10 years of their careers. They plundered runs in the mid 00s when Steve Harmisson was considered one of the world's most fearsome bowlers.

The recent South African and English attacks are stronger than they were in the 90s and 00s. New Zealand's attack is arguably stronger too with Boult, Southee and Wagner.

Pakistan and Sri Lanka are weaker. West Indies had a great attack in the 90s but were complete s**t in the 00s.
 
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Schraderbrau said:
Yeah Tendulkar, Lara and Kallis spent their careers plandering bums like Ambrose, Donald, McGrath, Warne, Murili, Akram, Waqar. Has there been a bowler in the last 5-10 years who even deserves to be mentioned among those names?
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There's one who statistically outstrips basically all of them who you seem to be ignoring.

Regardless though I do agree with you.
 
Schraderbrau said:
Yeah Tendulkar, Lara and Kallis spent their careers plandering bums like Ambrose, Donald, McGrath, Warne, Murili, Akram, Waqar. Has there been a bowler in the last 5-10 years who even deserves to be mentioned among those names?
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To be fair, I mentioned Ponting, and he absolutely plundered runs against some pedestrian attacks from the late '90s to mid 2000s. The English, Windies and Kiwis were rabbles, Sri Lanka wasn't exactly fearsome. Plus he had the might of the Australian cricket team of that era around him. Same could said of Kallis. Tendulkar played through several generations, so played against the good and the bad. Lara would have probably faced the toughest test, though the Aussies weren't great until the end of his career.

Smith has played against quality South African, English, NZ and Indian attacks. I think it's being dismissive to suggest he's somehow had it easy.
 
JackOutback said:
To be fair, I mentioned Ponting, and he absolutely plundered runs against some pedestrian attacks from the late '90s to mid 2000s. The English, Windies and Kiwis were rabbles, Sri Lanka wasn't exactly fearsome. Plus he had the might of the Australian cricket team of that era around him. Same could said of Kallis. Tendulkar played through several generations, so played against the good and the bad. Lara would have probably faced the toughest test, though the Aussies weren't great until the end of his career.

Smith has played against quality South African, English, NZ and Indian attacks. I think it's being dismissive to suggest he's somehow had it easy.
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Lara's first series here was against McDermott, Hughes, Warne and May. There's been better attacks but that was world class. He got one crack at a mediocre attack, and ironically that was in 1995 when McGrath wasn't established and blokes like Julian were getting a go - he didn't score a century. His peak came against McGrath, Gillespie, Warne and Macgill. Also destroyed Murali in SL, and Pakistan in the UAE. Battled a bit in SA but still scored runs there. Pretty hard to find holes in his record.
 
Barry_Badrinath said:
They did for the first part of their careers. Not so much in the last 10 years of their careers. They plundered runs in the mid 90s Steve Harmisson was considered one of the world's most fearsome bowlers.

The recent South African and English attacks are stronger than they were in the 90s and 00s. New Zealand's attack is arguably stronger too with Boult, Southee and Wagner.

Pakistan and Sri Lanka are weaker. West Indies had a great attack in the 90s but were complete s**t in the 00s.
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I think this is a great point and also serves to support Tendulkar as being the best of the lot.

To keep his average at 53.78 after playing for over two decades shows the level of his ability against varying levels of top end talent.
 
Oaktree said:
I think this is a great point and also serves to support Tendulkar as being the best of the lot.

To keep his average at 53.78 after playing for over two decades shows the level of his ability against varying levels of top end talent.
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Kallis is better IMO. He played for 18 years, which isn't quite 2 decades but still a long time. He had a higher average and was a better fielder and bowler than Sachin.
 
eth-dog said:
Kallis is better IMO. He played for 18 years, which isn't quite 2 decades but still a long time. He had a higher average and was a better fielder and bowler than Sachin.
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The problem with batting averages is that they are like an assessment of someone at a point in time. Take Sangakkara for example, if he retired after the World Cup as he intended to, he would have retired at 58.66. But cause the board pushed him to play for the extra four tests, his average dropped to 57.40. Now he is below Weekes, Hammond and Sobers.

Tendulkar at 53.78 versus Kallis at 55.37, on the surface Kallis wins the average debate. But Tendulkar has 15,921 runs at 53.78 compared to Kallis 13,289 at 55.37 where imo there is a material statistical difference.

I think Tendulkar is never going to win the argument of cricketer if you factor in their bowling.

Fielding and running between wickets, Tendulkar was probably a better runner between wickets than Kallis. Kallis had an exceptional pair of hands.

To me, I'd classify Tendulkar (as I would Sangakkara, Ponting, Lara and Jayawardene) as an entertainer with Kallis as an accumulator in a similar vein to Dravid and Chanderpaul.

For me, Tendulkar gets my vote. But I am also a big Kallis fan.
 
Oaktree said:
The problem with batting averages is that they are like an assessment of someone at a point in time. Take Sangakkara for example, if he retired after the World Cup as he intended to, he would have retired at 58.66. But cause the board pushed him to play for the extra four tests, his average dropped to 57.40. Now he is below Weekes, Hammond and Sobers.

Tendulkar at 53.78 versus Kallis at 55.37, on the surface Kallis wins the average debate. But Tendulkar has 15,921 runs at 53.78 compared to Kallis 13,289 at 55.37 where imo there is a material statistical difference.

I think Tendulkar is never going to win the argument of cricketer if you factor in their bowling.

Fielding and running between wickets, Tendulkar was probably a better runner between wickets than Kallis. Kallis had an exceptional pair of hands.

To me, I'd classify Tendulkar (as I would Sangakkara, Ponting, Lara and Jayawardene) as an entertainer with Kallis as an accumulator in a similar vein to Dravid and Chanderpaul.

For me, Tendulkar gets my vote. But I am also a big Kallis fan.
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Even as a big Kallis fan, for a long time I had him a rung below the other superstars. But on reading his cricinfo profile once - I'm assuming it's still there - I was enlightened to a degree. Rightly, whoever wrote it pointed out that Kallis wasn't a player to be downgraded because he accumulated, but one to be applauded because he forced himself to do it. And it makes sense when you look at the players he had around him through his career.

Look at the mainstays of SA's batting through Kallis' career:
Cronje
Kirsten
Cullinan
Gibbs
Smith
Amla
De Villiers
Prince
Duminy

Prince and Kirsten - who's careers didn't really overlap - are the only two who'd be classified as 'rocks' that others can bat around. Even the all rounders were real stroke makers in Klusener and Pollock. Much of his career was an excercise in self-denial. When he needed to, he could ramp it up.

He played exactly the role that was required of him, as Dravid did surrounded by Sachin, Ganguly, Laxman, Azharuddin, Sehwag and Sidhu early on.

I tend to put him right in that same sort of company now.
 
Oaktree said:
The problem with batting averages is that they are like an assessment of someone at a point in time. Take Sangakkara for example, if he retired after the World Cup as he intended to, he would have retired at 58.66. But cause the board pushed him to play for the extra four tests, his average dropped to 57.40. Now he is below Weekes, Hammond and Sobers.

Tendulkar at 53.78 versus Kallis at 55.37, on the surface Kallis wins the average debate. But Tendulkar has 15,921 runs at 53.78 compared to Kallis 13,289 at 55.37 where imo there is a material statistical difference.

I think Tendulkar is never going to win the argument of cricketer if you factor in their bowling.

Fielding and running between wickets, Tendulkar was probably a better runner between wickets than Kallis. Kallis had an exceptional pair of hands.

To me, I'd classify Tendulkar (as I would Sangakkara, Ponting, Lara and Jayawardene) as an entertainer with Kallis as an accumulator in a similar vein to Dravid and Chanderpaul.

For me, Tendulkar gets my vote. But I am also a big Kallis fan.
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You are talking about the best after Lara right? Because Lara was heads and shoulders above those two.
 
PhatBoy said:
Even as a big Kallis fan, for a long time I had him a rung below the other superstars. But on reading his cricinfo profile once - I'm assuming it's still there - I was enlightened to a degree. Rightly, whoever wrote it pointed out that Kallis wasn't a player to be downgraded because he accumulated, but one to be applauded because he forced himself to do it.

He played exactly the role that was required of him, as Dravid did surrounded by Sachin, Ganguly, Laxman, Azharuddin, Sehwag and Sidhu early on.

I tend to put him right in that same sort of company now.
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It's a really good point, an underappreciated skill.
 
eth-dog said:
Kallis is better IMO. He played for 18 years, which isn't quite 2 decades but still a long time. He had a higher average and was a better fielder and bowler than Sachin.
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When comparing Ponting, Tendulkar, Lara and Kallis, the only thing their batting averages tell you is who retired at the best time and who hung on too long.

Strange though how much Kallis' bowing gets overlooked. Yeah his batting wasn't as aggressive and didn't seem to dominate as much, but surely nearly 300 wickets @33ish balance out a slightly slower scoring rate.
 

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Barry_Badrinath said:
When comparing Ponting, Tendulkar, Lara and Kallis, the only thing their batting averages tell you is who retired at the best time and who hung on too long.

Strange though how much Kallis' bowing gets overlooked. Yeah his batting wasn't as aggressive and didn't seem to dominate as much, but surely nearly 300 wickets @33ish balance out a slightly slower scoring rate.
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Their averages are almost a moot point, but Ponting had a slight advantage in that he got dropped when he was battling in the early part of his career which probably saved his average from a few extra blemishes. Though he played a bit too long as well you could argue so he copped it a bit then.

Kallis was a good enough bowler that had it been his only skill, im certain he could have averaged well under 30.
 
Open question skinny girl or others ,what was black bradmans ave. and aggre. if you take away THE one big innings of the tour of oz of the year i know you will know.
While I'm at it what was Mrs Hadlee's ave. before and after WSC. I have a suspicion it dropped big time just before retiring when he took 25 for 16 against darlimurla seconds,
Legitimate question I DO want to know
 
Cold Sober said:
Open question skinny girl or others ,what was black bradmans ave. and aggre. if you take away THE one big innings of the tour of oz of the year i know you will know.
While I'm at it what was Mrs Hadlee's ave. before and after WSC. I have a suspicion it dropped big time just before retiring when he took 25 for 16 against darlimurla seconds,
Legitimate question I DO want to know
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Black Bradman hit two centuries that series as far as I'm aware. So which one are you referring to.
 
PhatBoy said:
Black Bradman hit two centuries that series as far as I'm aware. So which one are you referring to.
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I THOUGHT Tendulker had a s**t series but pulled his ave up with a one off double century I think in sydney ,but as I'm typing maybe I've f...ed up again and could've been LARA...sorry
 
Cold Sober said:
I THOUGHT Tendulker had a s**t series but pulled his ave up with a one off double century I think in sydney ,but as I'm typing maybe I've f...ed up again and could've been LARA...sorry
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What the f*** are you talking about


There has been one 'black Bradman' in history and he was born in Panama and played for the West Indies between 1930 and 1954 from memory.

Any other mention of the term pretty much tells me you're a spanner.
 
PhatBoy said:
What the f*** are you talking about


There has been one 'black Bradman' in history and he was born in Panama and played for the West Indies between 1930 and 1954 from memory.

Any other mention of the term pretty much tells me you're a spanner.
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Excuse me , the post aboved mentioned Tendulker hence my reference to black bradman,Bradmans call on tendulker.
I actually like reading your posts and answers to others, you obviously know your s**t,thats why I asked you the question,but once again I'm mistaken I'm talking to another egotistic idiot.
 
Cold Sober said:
Excuse me , the post aboved mentioned Tendulker hence my reference to black bradman,Bradmans call on tendulker.
I actually like reading your posts and answers to others, you obviously know your s**t,thats why I asked you the question,but once again I'm mistaken I'm talking to another egotistic idiot.
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Mate google the term
Black Bradman and tell me who it references. I've never heard Sachin referred to as such. The phrase has basically been reserved for one player from 1954 onwards.

As far as Sachin goes, his worst tour to Australia was 03-04 and he was in woeful form until the first innings of the deciding test.

I don't really care what his average was because to me he's a great batsman but not THAT great a batsman.
 
PhatBoy said:
What the f*** are you talking about


There has been one 'black Bradman' in history and he was born in Panama and played for the West Indies between 1930 and 1954 from memory.

Any other mention of the term pretty much tells me you're a spanner.
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If ur referring to George Headley, 22 tests, 2190 runs @ 60.83

That hardly makes him the Black Bradman.

That's only about the Black Voges at best.
 
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