Smoking Bans

- PC -

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Thread starter #1
http://www.sundaytimes.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,7034,11518889%5E948,00.html

Do smoking bans really work?The WA government has introduced legislation banning smoking within hotel/motel pub walls. This is in line with other states in Australia.

If smoking is so bad why not make it illegal..Wouldnt be the $$$$ would it..of course it would. Token efforts wont stop people smoking.Oh if you want to smoke inside a drinking venue you can go to the ;''international room'' at the Burswood casino :rolleyes: or jail.

Outdoor smoke ban
By JESSICA STRUTT
28nov04
SMOKING will be banned outside all WA government buildings, including hospitals, courts and police stations.

The State Government also is considering extending the ban to privately owned commercial buildings.

Premier Geoff Gallop is expected to announce the tough new regulations today as part of a major package of smoking reforms.

It is understood that the package also may include a timetable for a smoking ban in pubs and clubs.


Will this mean no more smoking in jail?Lets see the '' prisoners freedoms posters '' views.


The State Government also will undertake a report in July next year to look at ways of reducing smoking in prisons and psychiatric institutions, where rates are high.

Lets see how long before the first riot.

My pesonal view is you either ban it or leave it ..none of this halfway measures to show you are a commitd caring Government.
 

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Admin #2
Does it really matter if it is 'banned' rather than made 'illegal'.

It would be a bit over the top tro arrest anyone smoking in contravention of a ban, but it will still be effective. Not many pubs/clubs would be willing to risk losing their licences.
 

Caj

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#3
i live in ireland where there is a blanket ban on smoking in pubs and as a non-smoker i must say it is fantastic, bring it on australia!!
 

finders

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#6
A great move, we should also remember that it was the Victorian Cain government that had the guts to start the Medical health fund financed by a levy on tobaco products to help sporting orginizations pay out Tobacco company sponsership in the 1980s.
This was a first in the world and the Libs fought it tooth and nail.
 

evo

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#7
Little by little they chip away at people freedoms.I hate to imagine what it'll be like in 50 years.

Fancy banning smoking outside.

The establishment of the nanny state rolls on........
 

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#8
It seems everyone is citing the Queensland legislation and then adopting it for their own states.

I'm a non-smoker. My lungs are bad enough as it is with asthma. But, I do think that with legislation like this, that when smokers can't go anywhere at all to do what is essential a legal activity, then we know that the legislation has gone too far.
 

MillerCHF

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#9
evo said:
Little by little they chip away at people freedoms.I hate to imagine what it'll be like in 50 years.

Fancy banning smoking outside.

The establishment of the nanny state rolls on........
I don't like government intervention all that much either, but in this case it is totally justified.

I'm a non-smoker and I don't want to die just because other people are so selfish that they smoke in public places.

If you want to kill yourself, do it in your own house, don't do it around me and the majority of Australians who are non-smokers.

Bring on the smoking bans!
 

evo

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#10
This is outside though Miller.The second hand smoke argument is not relevant.

I don't smoke BTW,I just see it as another way government gets to stick their beak into people's lives.
 

MillerCHF

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#11
evo said:
This is outside though Miller.The second hand smoke argument is not relevant.

I don't smoke BTW,I just see it as another way government gets to stick their beak into people's lives.
Fair enough.

The issue of smoking outside is certainly one that could go both ways. Maybe we should have a poll here about it.
 

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Mr Q

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#13
evo said:
This is outside though Miller.The second hand smoke argument is not relevant.

I don't smoke BTW,I just see it as another way government gets to stick their beak into people's lives.
Its a bit of a fallacy though that when you smoke outside that the smoke just dissipates into the air. It does - eventually. If you smoke at a bus stop or a train station platform for instance, there's a fair chance that someone around you is going to get a lungful of your smoke before it disappears.

Hell, in my experience, in the past I've got a lungful of secondhand smoke while stopped at the traffic lights because its come in through the car's ventilation system because someone had a cigarette hanging out the window of their car.

Now I'm not about to advocate people can't smoke as they drive (except for the same sorts of reasons you can't use a mobile phone), but in areas where people congregate - even if it is outside - its not too much to suggest curtailing smoking.
 

afc9798

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#14
Mr Q said:
Its a bit of a fallacy though that when you smoke outside that the smoke just dissipates into the air. It does - eventually. If you smoke at a bus stop or a train station platform for instance, there's a fair chance that someone around you is going to get a lungful of your smoke before it disappears.

Hell, in my experience, in the past I've got a lungful of secondhand smoke while stopped at the traffic lights because its come in through the car's ventilation system because someone had a cigarette hanging out the window of their car.

Now I'm not about to advocate people can't smoke as they drive (except for the same sorts of reasons you can't use a mobile phone), but in areas where people congregate - even if it is outside - its not too much to suggest curtailing smoking.
I would support a ban, but only after the various Govts. sort out the real health issues such as car pollution, industrial pollution etc. as these are far more pressing issues than cigarette smoking and have a far greater impact on health and the environment generally.
 

mantis

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#15
When are they going to do something about the lungsful of pollution I get from the cars, buses & trucks on the road around me, even when walking down the street you can't avoid the pollution, about time all vehicles using fuels were banned & only electric vehicles allowed. :mad:
 

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Thread starter #16
mantis said:
When are they going to do something about the lungsful of pollution I get from the cars, buses & trucks on the road around me, even when walking down the street you can't avoid the pollution, about time all vehicles using fuels were banned & only electric vehicles allowed. :mad:
I agree and its what annoys me about the hypocrisy of governments...there are bigger problems to solve yet they continue pandering IMO to big business.

If smoking is so bad ...ban it all together make it illegal ..no half measures.

BTW dont smoke now but I did and I never smoked in restuarants or food halls. I accepted that pubs and clubs were venues full of smoke....the fact they were full of alcohol was my concern and I made a CHOICE to visit them.

Watched a program on green cars on foxtel last night was very interesting..from 4WD to golf carts ..yet 2010 is when they will be availble...
 

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#17
mantis said:
When are they going to do something about the lungsful of pollution I get from the cars, buses & trucks on the road around me, even when walking down the street you can't avoid the pollution, about time all vehicles using fuels were banned & only electric vehicles allowed. :mad:
Separate issue. You are using that arguement to justify your own habit.
 

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#18
No I'm not, seeing as I am in the process of quitting for good.

Just damned annoyed that nothing is done about vehicle pollution, which is a far greater problem & if they were really that concerned about peoples health.

I have stopped using my car where possible, catch public transport & have just bought an electric scooter for going to & from work.
 

Mr Q

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#19
afc9798 said:
I would support a ban, but only after the various Govts. sort out the real health issues such as car pollution, industrial pollution etc. as these are far more pressing issues than cigarette smoking and have a far greater impact on health and the environment generally.
I'd agree with that, except it takes time to fix other sorts of pollution, while you can easily fix smoking - ban it where it affects others.

Industrial and vehicle pollution can't be stopped without viable alternatives in place. I can't talk about industry, but the only viable alternative to vehicular pollution is improved public transport - and that requires a large outlay of infrastructure spending and time to get operational. In Perth there is already the southern suburbs railway, but in the end to stop cars (the bulk of urban vehicle pollution) that would need to be the tip of the iceberg.

Ultimately, removing industrial and vehicular pollution is a very high cost to the populace, while removing cigarette smoke is not.
 

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#20
Mr Q said:
Its a bit of a fallacy though that when you smoke outside that the smoke just dissipates into the air. It does - eventually. If you smoke at a bus stop or a train station platform for instance, there's a fair chance that someone around you is going to get a lungful of your smoke before it disappears.
Wow a whole lungful of smoke once in a while.The horror! lets curtsil peoples lifestyles just to protect the of chance that a citizen may walk past when someone is exhalling.Gimme a break.

Hell, in my experience, in the past I've got a lungful of secondhand smoke while stopped at the traffic lights because its come in through the car's ventilation system because someone had a cigarette hanging out the window of their car.
oh.Poor Q.We better stop millions of people doing what they enjoy.

Now I'm not about to advocate people can't smoke as they drive (except for the same sorts of reasons you can't use a mobile phone), but in areas where people congregate - even if it is outside - its not too much to suggest curtailing smoking.
Yes it is.Many people enjoy smoking.If it's not hurting you physivcally whats you beef? I heard this person singing loudly out of tune while I walked past a government building the other day,most annoying.Perhaps we should ban that!

Sorry to appear rude.But this is exactly the attitude that gets on my goat Q.

If people want to smoke let them.
 

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Thread starter #21
Mr Q said:
Industrial and vehicle pollution can't be stopped without viable alternatives in place. I can't talk about industry, but the only viable alternative to vehicular pollution is improved public transport - and that requires a large outlay of infrastructure spending and time to get operational. .
http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,63602,00.html

http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,60258,00.html?tw=wn_story_related


There are ''viable'' alternatives. Though I will assume by viable you mean cost effective and in place? Nothing would get built then..just as the successive Liberal and Labour Governments in WA pussyfooted around and changed the plans for the Southern Link. The Ghan took the SA government 100 years to complete. The more time you take to do something the more it will cost..

The American Motoring Industry had 4WDs renamed ''light truck'' , because a ''truck'' does not have to comply with industry fuel emissions standards.

That is the pussyfooting that goes on shows the power of the Fuel and Motor lobbies.

So Q ..not planning on visiting the International Room at the Burswood casino anytime soon? The only licenced premise in WA that smoking WONT be banned. Discriminatory wouldnt you think?
 

Mr Q

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#22
evo said:
Wow a whole lungful of smoke once in a while.The horror! lets curtsil peoples lifestyles just to protect the of chance that a citizen may walk past when someone is exhalling.Gimme a break.
Why not? I hope you wouldn't try and deny that cigarette smoke contains harmful substances, so why should one person's lifestyle be allowed to prevail over preventing others - who have made a different lifestyle choice - from inhaling poisons and carcinogens even in small quantities?

Not to mention that it is almost always possible for the smoker to leave the area while they smoke. They're the ones affecting the area around them, not the non-smokers, so why should the non-smokers who have no effect on those around them suffer.

evo said:
oh.Poor Q.We better stop millions of people doing what they enjoy.
Well if it is beneficial to the health of others, yes.

Actually, most smoking bans aren't really about stopping smoking per se; they're about stopping passive smoking. Noone's stopping people smoking, they're stopping them smoking where they effectively force others to smoke around them who otherwise would not.

Oh, and as I said, I probably wouldn't advocate banning smoking while driving as a smoking issue, rather as a road safety issue as it means the smoker has to take their hand off the wheel from time to time, and at that I don't think its that big an issue anyway.

evo said:
Yes it is.Many people enjoy smoking.If it's not hurting you physivcally whats you beef?
Because it is offensive - lets look at an alternate example. We don't let people sit on street corners masturbating. The person might enjoy masturbating, it doesn't physically affect anyone else - in fact it would affect people much less than smoking does, but it is offensive, so its illegal.

Additionally, passive smoking can have a direct and immediate effect on severe asthmatics, so to claim that it has no physical effect on others is a fallacy.

evo said:
I heard this person singing loudly out of tune while I walked past a government building the other day,most annoying.Perhaps we should ban that!
Well there are related laws to that - public nuisance, by laws on buskers and the likes. Additionally, a vast majority of people wouldn't inflict their singing on the public, while smoking in public has a physical effect

evo said:
Sorry to appear rude.But this is exactly the attitude that gets on my goat Q.

If people want to smoke let them.
I have no problem with letting people smoke. However, as it can have a direct effect on others - the smoke - it needs to be publically curtailed.

The attitude that occasional smoke is acceptable gets on my goat just as much. I don't want to be exposed to it, and to force exposure on others is not just lazy, its irresponsible and since some people can't seem to resist doing it should be illegal.
 

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#23
PerthCrow said:
There are ''viable'' alternatives. Though I will assume by viable you mean cost effective and in place? Nothing would get built then..just as the successive Liberal and Labour Governments in WA pussyfooted around and changed the plans for the Southern Link. The Ghan took the SA government 100 years to complete. The more time you take to do something the more it will cost..
By "viable" I mean things that are ready to go now and can make a difference. Nothing at the moment can stop industrial and vehicular pollution quickly; I'm certainly not advocating not doing anything about it! However, smoking is something that can have something done about it quickly.

I get really shat off with people who say "This is a much bigger issue, lets deal with this first and then deal with that", when in reality, the little issue can be dealt with quickly and efficiently now while the big issue will take just as long to deal with regardless. The effect is that we get rid of one issue quickly rather than have multiple issues hanging over our heads.

In the scheme of things pollution is a big issue and smoking is a ... smaller ... issue. If we wait to deal with smoking until pollution is dealt with, we'll never get to smoking, so why not get it out of the way right now?
 

otaku

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#24
When are you going to lobby for the banning of all forms of motorsport - they are doing you as much harm as smoking.

When are you going to lobby for the banning horse riding, hobby farming or anything that involves ruminants? They have as much effect on the over all health of society as smoking.
 

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#25
otaku said:
When are you going to lobby for the banning of all forms of motorsport - they are doing you as much harm as smoking.

When are you going to lobby for the banning horse riding, hobby farming or anything that involves ruminants? They have as much effect on the over all health of society as smoking.
Read the post above yours I posted at about the same time.

Anyway, I hate motor sports, so they don't have any effect on me. If you're telling me I get as many carcinogens from say the Kwinana Motoplex (which I never go near) as I do from people smoking near me, that's bollocks. I drive a small car because I cannot use public transport (even though I'd prefer to)
 
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