Sniper Small Fowards - who do we want? Resting mids need not apply

Which Small Forward can we realistically get?


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The Dominator7

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OK be gentle, I’ve never started a thread before, but I had a bit of time to myself whilst on leave.

We’ve been banging on about it in other threads and our CEO has even stated it publicly - we are after a small forward. So I went through the 18 primary lists to see all the available candidates in the system - I left out rookies aside from Stack as I am presuming we want someone ready to go. Originally I thought this might be part of 2019 list management thread, but it’s not really, it’s about laying the small foward landscape out there in detail for all to see and having a BF poll on who we could REALISTICALLY target and acquire for 2020 in the upcoming trade period.

BlueAbroad - I know you guys have touched on this in one of your clips, but given our CEO’s comments, this might be an interesting topic for an in-depth stats assessment based on the poll results.

Now lets be real clear - I’m talking your real sniper small forwards who love pressure and goals - your Aaron Davey/Eddie Betts/ Steven Milne types. I’m not talking about those high HFF’s that are really spare/developing mids, or those mids mature that haven’t made it in that position, as I think we have those bases well covered for now in JSOS, Fish, SPS, Gibbo, Dow, Kennedy, Setters, et al

OK so here is my full list including brief reason below - I haven’t checked contract status - and the ones I’ve deemed most likely have been put in the poll, along with state league and national draft options....lets discuss!!!

Adelaide (None in the poll)
  • Eddie - too old
  • Murphy - no shown enough yet
  • Stengle - just arrived, unlikely to move this off season
  • McAdam - unproven and could have had him last year if remotely interested
  • McHenry - like him but unproven at the level, talented, contracted and it’s Adealaide...price would outweigh performance to date
Brisbane (1 in the poll)
  • Charlie - no chance
  • McCarthy - highly unlikely given went there on 3 year deal, best mates with Neale, and Brissie firing
  • Lewis Taylor - yes as a sniper/pressure type, won the RS in front of the Bont so we know he has talent. Made to play further up ground by Leppa and stagnated. Now a clear 3rd choice, but I think he can play and would cost very little in $$$ and picks
  • Zorko - going nowhere
  • Christensen - age, injury and current standard put him well down the order
Collingwood (1 in the poll)
  • Elliott - Yes, gettable but buyer beware with his body, makes the poll but not sure he’d be at the top purely due to durability
  • Thomas - solid player but not what we’re after in terms of small fwd
  • Stevo - no chance Pies let him go anywhere
  • Daicos - showing a little bit this year, but unlikely given name and production levels

Essendon (1 in the poll)
  • Fantasia - no for me as the price would be too high - 2 years left on contract, plus already indicated to Ess he’s heading home
  • Tippa - Yes please....mystery to me as to why he remains out of contract
  • Mosquito - shown nothing yet, likely requires a lot of development
Fremantle (none in the poll)
  • Ballantyne - no, he’s cooked
  • Walters - unrealistic, I doubt he’s gettable, no noise to indicate he’d want a change and would cost plenty
  • Switkowski - not shown enough
  • Matera - just moved home to Freo, highly unlikely to move
Geelong (1 in the poll)
  • Dalhaus- just moved to Cats as FA on long deal - no chance he moves
  • Myers - yes please but not exactly realistic being a Falcons boys, a dream get as young but exactly what we are after. Would take big $$$ to prise him out, how is Cats cap??
  • Atkins - unlikely to be any better than what we have, decent role player but fully developed already
  • Narkle and Fogarty - not developed enough
  • Rohan - went home last year - going nowhere
Gold Coast (3 in the poll)
  • Ainsworth and Sexton - contracts recently extended so very very unlikely
  • Ah Chee - yes - talented but injured lots of upside under AR
  • Martin - don’t consider to be a small pressure goal kicking forward but included here so you don’t think I forgot him
  • McPherson - yes, plenty of upside with this guy, needs more goals but playing well (broken leg 2018), not sure of his contract status
  • Young - plenty of better options
  • Lemmens - manic pressure but skills iffy, been injured for most of last 2 seasons so hard to gauge.
GWS (2 in the poll)
  • Daniels - progressing nicely, doesn’t kick a lot of goals yet, in the poll but others well ahead
  • Langdon - matter recruit, behind Daniels in pecking order, not quite good enough
  • Greene - gun but going nowhere with long term contract
  • Hill - exactly what we’re after but unlikely as a 1st year draftee, but included in the poll as ties to our WA boys and $$$ could factor in
Hawthorn (1 in the poll)
  • The Chad - unlikely as just lured there on a long term deal
  • Poppy - on his last legs, too old
  • Breust - IMO he is a classic downhill skier, albeit a very good one goal kicking and pressuring from behind wise (by that I mean he sits back and waits for his opponent to take the ball before tackling rather than get the ball himself)
  • Ross - playing ressies and scoring but can’t get a look in - lots of work to do on fitness.
Melbourne (none in the poll)
  • Jeffy - sorry mate, likely to be delisted...5% chance as a DFA but well down our preferred list.
  • Kennedy Harris - not at the required level
  • BEdford - NGA kid this year, no idea how he’s going in ressies but well down any list we might have
  • Spargo - struggling this year, one to consider but a lot of development to come
Kangaroos (1 in the poll)
  • Turner - OK player, not sure he’s on the “pursue” list but we’ll put him in the poll
  • Thomas - bit of a stretch, playing mostly small fwd but likely moves up the ground as he gets more mature, not included in poll.
Port Adelaide (2 in the poll)
  • Sam Gray - in the media liked to us so goes in the poll
  • Butters - love to have him but like McHenery at Adel, he would come at a huge price of not a lot of production at this age
  • Farrell - probably gettable and looks to know where the goals are. Is he more HFF than small fwd??
  • Robbie Gray - gun but never gonna happen and probably a bit old now...next
Richmond - Christ where to start...I’ll put them in order if I was picking them off a line-up at school...will include all bar Rioli and Stack in poll
  • Stack - my absolute 1st preference as can also play back but it’s a pipe dream, however it might mean we can shakeout others below...they can’t pay them all and surely someone is gonna leak out...pretty happy club though so maybe not
  • Rioli - long term contract, having fitness issues but long term not gonna happen
  • Bolton - OOC and absolutely gettable - exactly what we need, not happy he played so well last week!!
  • Higgins - not sure of his contract status but smart and skilled - exactly what we need, best 22 in any other fwd line
  • Baker - really rate this kid, small but versatile like Caleb Daniel - would slot in our fwd line easy and a WA boy with Fish and SPS
  • Castagna - just resigned at Tigers I believe, fast as hell but untidy, not sure why he’s getting a game in front of Higgins/Baker
  • Butler - Last in line but can still play a role, well behind others
Saints (none in the poll)
  • Jack Lonie- could have got him last year before he signed a decent deal from memory
  • Matty Parker - handy pick up for saints in draft, probably not a target though
  • Robbie Young - another mature age draftee from last year so unlikely
Swans (2 in the poll)
  • Papley- the main target for us mentioned here and in media...1 year left on contract, coming home, yes please
  • Ronke- burst on scene and kicked 7 as a rookie, struggled this year but plenty to like if he can develop further
Weagles (1 in the poll)
  • Ryan - not going to get him out of WA, reckon if he was interstate he’d be doing a Tim Kelly go home
  • Cripps - WA boy who left Saints to go home - 27 and not leaving now
  • Rioli - would be ideal, not sure of contract status and nothing mentioned in any rumour/whisper - not likely but you’d have to ask.
  • Cameron - WA NGA kid, first year, not going anywhere
Western Bulldogs
  • Could not see a pure small forward on their list.....
 

BlueAbroad

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OK be gentle, I’ve never started a thread before, but I had a bit of time to myself whilst on leave.

We’ve been banging on about it in other threads and our CEO has even stated it publicly - we are after a small forward. So I went through the 18 primary lists to see all the available candidates in the system - I left out rookies aside from Stack as I am presuming we want someone ready to go. Originally I thought this might be part of 2019 list management thread, but it’s not really, it’s about laying the small foward landscape out there in detail for all to see and having a BF poll on who we could REALISTICALLY target and acquire for 2020 in the upcoming trade period.

BlueAbroad - I know you guys have touched on this in one of your clips, but given our CEO’s comments, this might be an interesting topic for an in-depth stats assessment based on the poll results.

Now lets be real clear - I’m talking your real sniper small forwards who love pressure and goals - your Aaron Davey/Eddie Betts/ Steven Milne types. I’m not talking about those high HFF’s that are really spare/developing mids, or those mids mature that haven’t made it in that position, as I think we have those bases well covered for now in JSOS, Fish, SPS, Gibbo, Dow, Kennedy, Setters, et al

OK so here is my full list including brief reason below - I haven’t checked contract status - and the ones I’ve deemed most likely have been put in the poll, along with state league and national draft options....lets discuss!!!

Adelaide (None in the poll)
  • Eddie - too old
  • Murphy - no shown enough yet
  • Stengle - just arrived, unlikely to move this off season
  • McAdam - unproven and could have had him last year if remotely interested
  • McHenry - like him but unproven at the level, talented, contracted and it’s Adealaide...price would outweigh performance to date
Brisbane (1 in the poll)
  • Charlie - no chance
  • McCarthy - highly unlikely given went there on 3 year deal, best mates with Neale, and Brissie firing
  • Lewis Taylor - yes as a sniper/pressure type, won the RS in front of the Bont so we know he has talent. Made to play further up ground by Leppa and stagnated. Now a clear 3rd choice, but I think he can play and would cost very little in $$$ and picks
  • Zorko - going nowhere
  • Christensen - age, injury and current standard put him well down the order
Collingwood (1 in the poll)
  • Elliott - Yes, gettable but buyer beware with his body, makes the poll but not sure he’d be at the top purely due to durability
  • Thomas - solid player but not what we’re after in terms of small fwd
  • Stevo - no chance Pies let him go anywhere
  • Daicos - showing a little bit this year, but unlikely given name and production levels

Essendon (1 in the poll)
  • Fantasia - no for me as the price would be too high - 2 years left on contract, plus already indicated to Ess he’s heading home
  • Tippa - Yes please....mystery to me as to why he remains out of contract
  • Mosquito - shown nothing yet, likely requires a lot of development
Fremantle (none in the poll)
  • Ballantyne - no, he’s cooked
  • Walters - unrealistic, I doubt he’s gettable, no noise to indicate he’d want a change and would cost plenty
  • Switkowski - not shown enough
  • Matera - just moved home to Freo, highly unlikely to move
Geelong (1 in the poll)
  • Dalhaus- just moved to Cats as FA on long deal - no chance he moves
  • Myers - yes please but not exactly realistic being a Falcons boys, a dream get as young but exactly what we are after. Would take big $$$ to prise him out, how is Cats cap??
  • Atkins - unlikely to be any better than what we have, decent role player but fully developed already
  • Narkle and Fogarty - not developed enough
  • Rohan - went home last year - going nowhere
Gold Coast (3 in the poll)
  • Ainsworth and Sexton - contracts recently extended so very very unlikely
  • Ah Chee - yes - talented but injured lots of upside under AR
  • Martin - don’t consider to be a small pressure goal kicking forward but included here so you don’t think I forgot him
  • McPherson - yes, plenty of upside with this guy, needs more goals but playing well (broken leg 2018), not sure of his contract status
  • Young - plenty of better options
  • Lemmens - manic pressure but skills iffy, been injured for most of last 2 seasons so hard to gauge.
GWS (2 in the poll)
  • Daniels - progressing nicely, doesn’t kick a lot of goals yet, in the poll but others well ahead
  • Langdon - matter recruit, behind Daniels in pecking order, not quite good enough
  • Greene - gun but going nowhere with long term contract
  • Hill - exactly what we’re after but unlikely as a 1st year draftee, but included in the poll as ties to our WA boys and $$$ could factor in
Hawthorn (1 in the poll)
  • The Chad - unlikely as just lured there on a long term deal
  • Poppy - on his last legs, too old
  • Breust - IMO he is a classic downhill skier, albeit a very good one goal kicking and pressuring from behind wise (by that I mean he sits back and waits for his opponent to take the ball before tackling rather than get the ball himself)
  • Ross - playing ressies and scoring but can’t get a look in - lots of work to do on fitness.
Melbourne (none in the poll)
  • Jeffy - sorry mate, likely to be delisted...5% chance as a DFA but well down our preferred list.
  • Kennedy Harris - not at the required level
  • BEdford - NGA kid this year, no idea how he’s going in ressies but well down any list we might have
  • Spargo - struggling this year, one to consider but a lot of development to come
Kangaroos (1 in the poll)
  • Turner - OK player, not sure he’s on the “pursue” list but we’ll put him in the poll
  • Thomas - bit of a stretch, playing mostly small fwd but likely moves up the ground as he gets more mature, not included in poll.
Port Adelaide (2 in the poll)
  • Sam Gray - in the media liked to us so goes in the poll
  • Butters - love to have him but like McHenery at Adel, he would come at a huge price of not a lot of production at this age
  • Farrell - probably gettable and looks to know where the goals are. Is he more HFF than small fwd??
  • Robbie Gray - gun but never gonna happen and probably a bit old now...next
Richmond - Christ where to start...I’ll put them in order if I was picking them off a line-up at school...will include all bar Rioli and Stack in poll
  • Stack - my absolute 1st preference as can also play back but it’s a pipe dream, however it might mean we can shakeout others below...they can’t pay them all and surely someone is gonna leak out...pretty happy club though so maybe not
  • Rioli - long term contract, having fitness issues but long term not gonna happen
  • Bolton - OOC and absolutely gettable - exactly what we need, not happy he played so well last week!!
  • Higgins - not sure of his contract status but smart and skilled - exactly what we need, best 22 in any other fwd line
  • Baker - really rate this kid, small but versatile like Caleb Daniel - would slot in our fwd line easy and a WA boy with Fish and SPS
  • Castagna - just resigned at Tigers I believe, fast as hell but untidy, not sure why he’s getting a game in front of Higgins/Baker
  • Butler - Last in line but can still play a role, well behind others
Saints (none in the poll)
  • Jack Lonie- could have got him last year before he signed a decent deal from memory
  • Matty Parker - handy pick up for saints in draft, probably not a target though
  • Robbie Young - another mature age draftee from last year so unlikely
Swans (2 in the poll)
  • Papley- the main target for us mentioned here and in media...1 year left on contract, coming home, yes please
  • Ronke- burst on scene and kicked 7 as a rookie, struggled this year but plenty to like if he can develop further
Weagles (1 in the poll)
  • Ryan - not going to get him out of WA, reckon if he was interstate he’d be doing a Tim Kelly go home
  • Cripps - WA boy who left Saints to go home - 27 and not leaving now
  • Rioli - would be ideal, not sure of contract status and nothing mentioned in any rumour/whisper - not likely but you’d have to ask.
  • Cameron - WA NGA kid, first year, not going anywhere
Western Bulldogs
  • Could not see a pure small forward on their list.....

Mate this is brilliant work!
 

FitzroyBlueBagger

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These three would be my top picks, not sure if Bolton would want to leave the tigers maybe a long shot? Papley and also two upcoming forwards that have a few years in the system themselves that won't cost much, buy now reasonably low with the potential of great upside...

1. Tom Papley SYD - Right age and experience 5th year in the system, strong clever around goals, can play through the midfield as well making him more valuable as well cost 12-17?

2. Callum AhChee GCS -Extremely talented forward 4th year in the system, had some injury setbacks along the way but has massive potential cost 33-40?

3. Shai Bolton RICH -Just starting to show us his potential 3rd year in the system, very clever player with a good tank, land him now while his still a bargain cost- 23-30?
 

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Nice post OP - well done.

I'll throw a spanner in the works and say this:

Couldn't care less about so called specialist small forwards - it is all BS.

prefer blokes that can tackle / pressure take a mark and kick regulation goals.

T@

Why?

because in Charlie/harry and McGovern we already have three fantastic contested marks and decent kicks - the other three just have to be decent and quick enough in brain and foot to support - and we already have plenty of that type.

First priority is to replace Simpson and Thomas-both of whom are still very important players at Carlton - delivering in very important moments in games.

The whole need a small forward meme is overdone nonsense - the side already kicks 100 points in games - defense requires attention as does midfield depth.
 

Blues_1864

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Oct 6, 2008
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Couldn't care less about so called specialist small forwards - it is all BS.

prefer blokes that can tackle / pressure, take a mark, and kick regulation goals.

In the ultra-modern game, if you really want all three of these things, you've just described a "specialist small forward"...

Yes, there are blokes in midfields that kick goals, even spectacular goals. But they miss the regulation ones, set shots especially... and that's partly why they play midfield. And increasingly the type of player you described, essentially because they have those 3 skills, does not have the tank to spend big minutes in the modern midfield.

So I think the OP's premise stands, and our forward-line is exhibit A in the case for the need. As you said, our talls do pretty much everything we could ask for, and provide rich crumbs for anyone with the nous to hoover them up, or exploit the reduced attention arising from coexistence with Curnow, McKay and McGovern. An Eddie Betts (of any vintage, even 2019!) would be lethal in this current line-up, even more than he ever was in the good old days. We don't have a player remotely like him (Cuningham? Can't think of anyone closer); I think it demonstrates that (a) 'forward craft' is a thing, and (b) we largely lack it.

Back on topic: I'm very glad we are active around Sam Gray. Very, very good player and exactly what we need (I'd be dropping off some of the other frequently-mentioned names, if Gray remains available). Cannot for the life of me understand why Port are mucking him around - on week-to-week output, he'd be in Port's top 10 players. He's a lot more consistent than some of the bigger names around him.
 
In the ultra-modern game, if you really want all three of these things, you've just described a "specialist small forward"...

Yes, there are blokes in midfields that kick goals, even spectacular goals. But they miss the regulation ones, set shots especially... and that's partly why they play midfield. And increasingly the type of player you described, essentially because they have those 3 skills, does not have the tank to spend big minutes in the modern midfield.

So I think the OP's premise stands, and our forward-line is exhibit A in the case for the need. As you said, our talls do pretty much everything we could ask for, and provide rich crumbs for anyone with the nous to hoover them up, or exploit the reduced attention arising from coexistence with Curnow, McKay and McGovern. An Eddie Betts (of any vintage, even 2019!) would be lethal in this current line-up, even more than he ever was in the good old days. We don't have a player remotely like him (Cuningham? Can't think of anyone closer); I think it demonstrates that (a) 'forward craft' is a thing, and (b) we largely lack it.

Back on topic: I'm very glad we are active around Sam Gray. Very, very good player and exactly what we need (I'd be dropping off some of the other frequently-mentioned names, if Gray remains available). Cannot for the life of me understand why Port are mucking him around - on week-to-week output, he'd be in Port's top 10 players. He's a lot more consistent than some of the bigger names around him.

Who are the small crumbing forwards that got WC and Collingwood to GF last year - I forget....

My point is that we have serious holes to plug in backline with the supposed retirement of Simpson and Thomas at end of year - Docherty is not going to be the player he was if he manages to get back again - a big IF - same goes for Williamson...

My other point is that we continue to need a developed classy mid who can play inside and outside to round out midfield capability and increase depth.

Meanwhile : Dow/Fisher/Cuningham/Gibbons/Murphy/Walsh/Setterfield/Kennedy/Lang/SOJ - have all combined to help the side kick 100points and that doesn't include any of Garlett/Owies/LeBois/Polson currently in VFL side

ie specialist crumber(s) are not the 'missing ingredient' that so many are calling for....
 
Mar 13, 2008
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Gold Coast (3 in the poll)
  • Ainsworth and Sexton - contracts recently extended so very very unlikely
  • Martin - don’t consider to be a small pressure goal kicking forward but included here so you don’t think I forgot him
GWS (2 in the poll)
  • Daniels - progressing nicely, doesn’t kick a lot of goals yet, in the poll but others well ahead


Richmond - Christ where to start...I’ll put them in order if I was picking them off a line-up at school...will include all bar Rioli and Stack in poll
  • Bolton - OOC and absolutely gettable - exactly what we need, not happy he played so well last week!!

Those are the main names I would sniff around, Ainsworth may cost the most but potentially has the most talent.
Daniels could come cheap and I think he looks okay.
I really like Bolton and did as a junior, super talent.
Martin is highly talented but not a pressure forward, but if he comes cheap enough, I would strongly consider.
 

Blues_1864

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Who are the small crumbing forwards that got WC and Collingwood to GF last year - I forget....

My point is that we have serious holes to plug in backline with the supposed retirement of Simpson and Thomas at end of year - Docherty is not going to be the player he was if he manages to get back again - a big IF - same goes for Williamson...

My other point is that we continue to need a developed classy mid who can play inside and outside to round out midfield capability and increase depth.

Meanwhile : Dow/Fisher/Cuningham/Gibbons/Murphy/Walsh/Setterfield/Kennedy/Lang/SOJ - have all combined to help the side kick 100points and that doesn't include any of Garlett/Owies/LeBois/Polson currently in VFL side

ie specialist crumber(s) are not the 'missing ingredient' that so many are calling for....

You mean Cripps, Rioli, LeCras, De Goey, Stephenson, Hoskin-Elliott, Varcoe, those guys? You're welcome. We don't have anyone like that, and it hurts us.

No issue with your contention that we will have important holes at the back. Difference being that I think we have some/most of those replacements in-house. Petrevski-Seton can play there; Stocker can play there, and if we lack confidence in Docherty for 2020, then retain Thomas for another year.

None of that means we don't need small forwards too. And on the available evidence, the in-house cupboard is remarkably bare. Yeah, we've kicked 100 points a couple of times... in our last 50 games..., but kicking higher scores more often would make winning more often easier. It's not rocket science, it's 100 years of AFL.

Defence is king, for sure. But we are doing everything we can there, and doing it well. It's the other end of the field that needs actual improvement on a more frequent basis.
 

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You mean Cripps, Rioli, LeCras, De Goey, Stephenson, Hoskin-Elliott, Varcoe, those guys? You're welcome. We don't have anyone like that, and it hurts us.

No issue with your contention that we will have important holes at the back. Difference being that I think we have some/most of those replacements in-house. Petrevski-Seton can play there; Stocker can play there, and if we lack confidence in Docherty for 2020, then retain Thomas for another year.

None of that means we don't need small forwards too. And on the available evidence, the in-house cupboard is remarkably bare. Yeah, we've kicked 100 points a couple of times... in our last 50 games..., but kicking higher scores more often would make winning more often easier. It's not rocket science, it's 100 years of AFL.

Defence is king, for sure. But we are doing everything we can there, and doing it well. It's the other end of the field that needs actual improvement on a more frequent basis.

Look I bolded all the players who are actually bigger bodied than most of our mids- that you say are 'small forwards'...

I get your point - I just think there are far bigger priorities...
 

Blutopia

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You mean Cripps, Rioli, LeCras, De Goey, Stephenson, Hoskin-Elliott, Varcoe, those guys? You're welcome. We don't have anyone like that, and it hurts us.

No issue with your contention that we will have important holes at the back. Difference being that I think we have some/most of those replacements in-house. Petrevski-Seton can play there; Stocker can play there, and if we lack confidence in Docherty for 2020, then retain Thomas for another year.

None of that means we don't need small forwards too. And on the available evidence, the in-house cupboard is remarkably bare. Yeah, we've kicked 100 points a couple of times... in our last 50 games..., but kicking higher scores more often would make winning more often easier. It's not rocket science, it's 100 years of AFL.

Defence is king, for sure. But we are doing everything we can there, and doing it well. It's the other end of the field that needs actual improvement on a more frequent basis.
Agree with this. You forgot to mention Flyin Ryan... but definitely - if we could get Papley and Bolton/Tippa then we will have enough with Cunners and Gibbo in this area. And specialised small forwards who put pressure on, tackle and kick goals are a big must.
 
Great work TD7 :thumbsu:

Eliminating those who I think are in the 'not gettable' basket, my preferences would be;
Lewis Taylor
Shai Bolton
Dan Butler

The reason I would go these three is they wouldn't cost an arm and a leg.

Papley and Martin I see more as high half forwards with both being able to spend some time in the guts. Also, both are in demand and will cost us a fair bit more trade/pick wise than the aforementioned three who realistically, would cost us a pick in the 30's.
 

Blues_1864

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Agree with this. You forgot to mention Flyin Ryan... but definitely - if we could get Papley and Bolton/Tippa then we will have enough with Cunners and Gibbo in this area. And specialised small forwards who put pressure on, tackle and kick goals are a big must.

The question referred to the 2018 finals series, and Ryan was out of action by then. I also shouldn't have included De Goey and Stephenson in anything other than a semantic sense - we are not very good at defining and delineating 'key forwards' from 'third talls' from 'small forwards', and there's no way the Collingwood pair (or Hoskin-Elliott, for that matter) fit into the third category. For what it's worth, I think we lack quality in the 'third tall' area as well, with McGovern and Silvagni both found wanting in those F50-based roles for long stretches of this season, and Kennedy still finding his feet (although I like what he has done so far, even when not kicking goals).

The 'small forward' thing just should be more tractable than we (Carlton) find it; a player with half the goal sense of a Jamie Cripps or Willie Rioli would find plenty of opportunity in our F50. Cuningham might well be part of the answer, but like everyone, I'd like to see him get on the park and stay there, first. I also believe it's the one thing that could actually provide a measurable 'bounce' over the course of a season. 'Across the board' improvement might lift us to 10th-12th next season, but an extra 2-3 goals a game to 'non-key forwards' might lift us to 7th or 8th.

But it might happen anyway. JaB might be right, it might be something that just happens, once the back two-thirds is better organised and more experienced as a whole. Better midfield transitions and improved quality of F50 entries might get it done, irrespective of jumper-numbers.
 

Blutopia

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AFL Club
Carlton
The question referred to the 2018 finals series, and Ryan was out of action by then. I also shouldn't have included De Goey and Stephenson in anything other than a semantic sense - we are not very good at defining and delineating 'key forwards' from 'third talls' from 'small forwards', and there's no way the Collingwood pair (or Hoskin-Elliott, for that matter) fit into the third category. For what it's worth, I think we lack quality in the 'third tall' area as well, with McGovern and Silvagni both found wanting in those F50-based roles for long stretches of this season, and Kennedy still finding his feet (although I like what he has done so far, even when not kicking goals).

The 'small forward' thing just should be more tractable than we (Carlton) find it; a player with half the goal sense of a Jamie Cripps or Willie Rioli would find plenty of opportunity in our F50. Cuningham might well be part of the answer, but like everyone, I'd like to see him get on the park and stay there, first. I also believe it's the one thing that could actually provide a measurable 'bounce' over the course of a season. 'Across the board' improvement might lift us to 10th-12th next season, but an extra 2-3 goals a game to 'non-key forwards' might lift us to 7th or 8th.

But it might happen anyway. JaB might be right, it might be something that just happens, once the back two-thirds is better organised and more experienced as a whole. Better midfield transitions and improved quality of F50 entries might get it done, irrespective of jumper-numbers.
Ryan played in the GF, didn’t he?
 
The question referred to the 2018 finals series, and Ryan was out of action by then. I also shouldn't have included De Goey and Stephenson in anything other than a semantic sense - we are not very good at defining and delineating 'key forwards' from 'third talls' from 'small forwards', and there's no way the Collingwood pair (or Hoskin-Elliott, for that matter) fit into the third category. For what it's worth, I think we lack quality in the 'third tall' area as well, with McGovern and Silvagni both found wanting in those F50-based roles for long stretches of this season, and Kennedy still finding his feet (although I like what he has done so far, even when not kicking goals).

The 'small forward' thing just should be more tractable than we (Carlton) find it; a player with half the goal sense of a Jamie Cripps or Willie Rioli would find plenty of opportunity in our F50. Cuningham might well be part of the answer, but like everyone, I'd like to see him get on the park and stay there, first. I also believe it's the one thing that could actually provide a measurable 'bounce' over the course of a season. 'Across the board' improvement might lift us to 10th-12th next season, but an extra 2-3 goals a game to 'non-key forwards' might lift us to 7th or 8th.

But it might happen anyway. JaB might be right, it might be something that just happens, once the back two-thirds is better organised and more experienced as a whole. Better midfield transitions and improved quality of F50 entries might get it done, irrespective of jumper-numbers.

That is my thinking - get the backs and mids working better will be a structural shift for the better - and THEN go about the icing the cake ..there is always next year and hopefully for a few more years continued development from the 20-21 yr olds...anyway..

Murphy/Simpson/Keruzer/Thomas are huge tasks to replace....
 
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