Snoops 2016 List Management, Trade and Draft thoughts

[Matt_352]

Bombers are looking at Ahern and Blues at Pickett. I'd like is to be in that market as well.

Ahern, Pickett and WHE for....

Like Pickett more than Ahern talent wise. But Pickett is lazy apparently?

 

[TradeDraft]

Bombers are looking at Ahern and Blues at Pickett. I'd like is to be in that market as well.

Ahern, Pickett and WHE for....

So Bombers want someone who's Knees are Pretty Stuffed at the Moment

 

[Gubbinator]

Bombers are looking at Ahern and Blues at Pickett. I'd like is to be in that market as well.

Ahern, Pickett and WHE for....

Jakey too

Jake Barrett, from Temora in southern NSW, was recruited by the GIANTS in the 2013 NAB AFL Draft as a NSW zone selection player. He is a tough midfielder with a great work-rate and endurance. Barrett is the first cousin of Hawthorn premiership player Luke Breust and second cousin on former Dally M winner and NRL star Trent Barrett.

SEASON PREVIEW
2016
A strong season in the NEAFL from the tough on-baller was rewarded when Barrett made his debut as the sub for the GIANTS in round 23 against Melbourne. The 20-year-old averaged 29 possessions a game in the NEAFL - 14 of those contested - and was ranked first in the competition for tackles. Barrett's quality season was rewarded when he was named in the NEAFL Team of the Year.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

SEASON PREVIEW
2016
A strong season in the NEAFL from the tough on-baller was rewarded when Barrett made his debut as the sub for the GIANTS in round 23 against Melbourne. The 20-year-old averaged 29 possessions a game in the NEAFL - 14 of those contested - and was ranked first in the competition for tackles. Barrett's quality season was rewarded when he was named in the NEAFL Team of the Year.

Sub? I'm guessing this was written by a New South Welshman.

 

[Gubbinator]

Sub? I'm guessing this was written by a New South Welshman.

hah! nice numbers but how strong is that comp?

 

[Obese Arachnid]

hah! nice numbers but how strong is that comp?

As weak as my mate's chilli con carne I had the other night.

Pfffttt five alarm Chilli my clacker, it was two, two & a half tops!

He should go to jail.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

As weak as my mate's chilli con carne I had the other night.

Pfffttt five alarm Chilli my clacker, it was two, two & a half tops!

He should go to jail.

The fat spider wants his chilli hot - make it red

 

[northpie]

yeah I think thats right. Its possible they could both play. I think Ramsay is in competition with Sinclair more than Sinclair with Smith. I suspect Smith will turn into the more defensive defender and the other two will be the two we want 'gaining metres'. The blend of that back 6 if we actually had all players available would be interesting.

Reid, Ramsay and Howe are the locks for me. The other 3 are really interesting. I think you need another tall, and maybe 2 medium defenders.

Key defender role

Brown / Keefe / Frost. All would have claims for that spot Rd 1 depending on their pre season. I obviously love Brown but he has limitations with his ball use and intercepting. Keefe I think is the more rounded of all of them but is coming from a way back. Frost is still young and could break out but he really has to develop a couple of areas of his game and become a bit more intercepting and better with ball in hand.

Medium Defenders

Scharenberg / Langdon / Williams / Sinclair / Smith / Maynard / Goldsack / Marsh

I think these guys would all have a legitimate claim. I like the experience of Goldsack back there but looks to me like the coach is blooding Marsh and is committed to him. For the other spot I probably favour Scharenberg but questions around will he be ready. Langdon I think we all forget his best is very good but its either a back flank role or bust for him and then there is Maynard who again I think the coach is committed to. I suspect all 3 play (1 on bench) but can Scharenberg and Langdon play in same side. Neither terribly quick so leaves Ramsay as the only player with speed in that back half.

I think this is a really difficult area and its not inconceivable that Adams or Crisp dont come off HB if Wells turned up. Anyway loads of options.

Snoop think you are spot on with keys bit just have a query on your mediums discussion
Have discussed with Saintly V before who is a massive Shaz fan about why he likes him?
From what I have seen and living in Sydney it's not much live, Shaz would appear undersized and lacking pace at afl level. I know there were massive wraps on him as a junior, but I don't recall a dominating performance in the VFL, and in the AfL games he was largely 'gifted form wise, he barely touched the ball. Given another knee reco his speed is perhaps more of a negative, so unsure why a lot of people still see him as the great hope? I am not knocking him as I admire his deduction through a horrible injury run, but players with his background don't come good too often. Was his junior footy that good?
I don't understand the preference for marsh over Goldsack that buck has. Marsh has pace and closing speed but his decision making pretty horrible. Gold quick enough for his size , disciplined and a good kick.


Ramsay Keeefe Goldsack
Maynard Reid Wells. And smith rotating off bench
Where is Howe? I like him given a go as HHF as whilst kicking is great technically I think he leans to the riskier option too often which won't be part of a serious contenders DNA. Ramsay Kaynard Goldsack all capable of taking kick out responsibilities. Think Maynard at 19 the one we should invest in. I admit to being a knocker earlier in his career, but I think he took big steps in his development last half of 16.
an aside this is a great thread , in fact the only thing I read on bigfooty nowadays. Thanks for the time you put into it

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Snoop think you are spot on with keys bit just have a query on your mediums discussion
Have discussed with Saintly V before who is a massive Shaz fan about why he likes him?
From what I have seen and living in Sydney it's not much live, Shaz would appear undersized and lacking pace at afl level. I know there were massive wraps on him as a junior, but I don't recall a dominating performance in the VFL, and in the AfL games he was largely 'gifted form wise, he barely touched the ball. Given another knee reco his speed is perhaps more of a negative, so unsure why a lot of people still see him as the great hope? I am not knocking him as I admire his deduction through a horrible injury run, but players with his background don't come good too often.

On Scharenberg, you raise the fairest of points about him.
I point out, that today there is now meshed into the whole discussion about Matthew a degree of hope and fingers crossed. He has had injuries that could literally destroy his AFL career.

Now the however.

From all reports his work ethic is exemplary. So much so he's been told to take it easy.
So he has that in spades.

He's own charachter comes across as intelligent and an old head on young shoulders.
So that ticks big for me.

Then there was his junior time. On all reports he was an elite junior. Terrific decision maker, leader type etc.

Oh and I love that he stayed with us.

So all in all the hope is justified and fingers crossed. I guess if he matches the potential he'll be worth it in spades OR another way of putting it, it's possible he could be elite (possible) and the more elite we have the better.

So I like him, absolutely, but not blind to his set backs.
I actually thought he looked classy in his afl play, in limited ways. Great in some VFL play on reports given.

Hope springs eternal

 

[Snoop Dog]

I like Ahern. Injury risk, but if for a later pick, well worth the risk, IMO.

Pickett-not sure about. I'd heard we were very keen on Jake Lever. The knee issue played a part in not taking him. Again, if cheap, worth a look. Had a Lisfranc injury didn't he?

Stewart - I'd rather not. Just doesn't appear to be a KPP to me. However, as a flanker type player he could be handy, but with concerns regarding his mobility and pace. I'd rather go to the draft with the pick it's likely to take to get him.

GWS will have multiple players up for trade every year, for sometime yet.

I am with you on Pickett but I think there are real 'commitment' issues for him but Gubby would be all over that so whatever they do works for me.

Ahern I know Matt Rendell loved him in his draft year. Would think he will be steak knives.

Stewart I was a big fan of as saw him tear it up in the prelim but I saw Teddy Richards do a job on him in the GF. He is a list type player we need so I get why they would look at him. His contested marking has improved but its all NEAFL form so am keen to know how it would translate at AFL level. He is a mobile forward but you still need them to be able to take a mark.

We are clearly into Stewart so Gubby must rate him and I like what he brings so would be keen myself but the other two attractive as well.

 

[Snoop Dog]

He's not fast, but he has very good hands. I remember there were quite a few moments in games when i thought 'Geez, Smith is pretty clean and quick with his hands", and he generally made good decisions too by hand and foot.
Will he get the chance to continue learning next year is the big ? for me. Shaz and Ramsay to come back into the team, doesn't leave a lot of space for Smithy.

Agree with that. As the year went on you realised he has the makings of a player bc his decision making is good and his execution under pressure equally so. You would have to think he will progress next year but does he have the upside of a Ramsay, Maynard and Scharenberg......I doubt it. Ideally those three are you medium backs for the next 10 years and the sooner they play together the better.

Re Smith on a wing. Maybe that is his best spot but I doubt he will get a game there. With Wells we will have so many ahead of him in that role.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Would definitely take at Pickett and Ahern if they can be pried loose on the cheap.

I still haven't given up on Marchbank despite him nominating the Blues and would prefer ahead of Stewart as he projects as a genuine KPP type. Stewart may well end up being a Gunston type mobile tall forward but there hasn't been a lot of evidence to support it as yet.

Give up on Marchbank. That one will happen.

 

[Quicky]

Snoop think you are spot on with keys bit just have a query on your mediums discussion
Have discussed with Saintly V before who is a massive Shaz fan about why he likes him?
From what I have seen and living in Sydney it's not much live, Shaz would appear undersized and lacking pace at afl level. I know there were massive wraps on him as a junior, but I don't recall a dominating performance in the VFL, and in the AfL games he was largely 'gifted form wise, he barely touched the ball. Given another knee reco his speed is perhaps more of a negative, so unsure why a lot of people still see him as the great hope? I am not knocking him as I admire his deduction through a horrible injury run, but players with his background don't come good too often. Was his junior footy that good?
I don't understand the preference for marsh over Goldsack that buck has. Marsh has pace and closing speed but his decision making pretty horrible. Gold quick enough for his size , disciplined and a good kick.


Ramsay Keeefe Goldsack
Maynard Reid Wells. And smith rotating off bench
Where is Howe? I like him given a go as HHF as whilst kicking is great technically I think he leans to the riskier option too often which won't be part of a serious contenders DNA. Ramsay Kaynard Goldsack all capable of taking kick out responsibilities. Think Maynard at 19 the one we should invest in. I admit to being a knocker earlier in his career, but I think he took big steps in his development last half of 16.
an aside this is a great thread , in fact the only thing I read on bigfooty nowadays. Thanks for the time you put into it

I can understand your concerns about Scharenberg, but I would argue some of the points you make. He did have a break out VFL game in a final last year where he was dominant. I also don't think it is unfair to say he has done nothing at AFL level. He has played 4 games, the first two were ordinary. The next two were really promising. He earned high teens possessions and his intercept marking and disposal were features. He had 8 and 9 marks in those games which is big. He is a very clever player who found his feet quickly at the level. Given he is already in full training, a full preseason and he could surprise a few next year.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Hi Snoop. Excellent thread.

Interested in your thoughts on trading our first round pick from next year if it can get us 2 first rounders this year?

Something like:
2017 1st + Witts or 25 for GWS 2 late first rounders
or
2017 1st + Witts + 25 for GWS Pick 7 and late first, or to GC for Pick 8 and their pick from Hawks for O'Meara

Not so much about the actual trade as just the idea of doing it.

It would obviously weaken our draft position for next year, but could actually improve our trade prospects because we would then have the option to trade our 2018 first rounder (an option we won't have as it stands now). With many of the early picks this year expected to be used on midfielders, we could end up with 2 of the best 3 - 5 key position prospects from the draft.

If we keep the pick for next year which is apparently better for key position players and get say pick 10, we could still end up with only the 6th or 7th best KPP from that draft. We need key position depth now, especially in the forward line, and even if (hopefully) they're not required to play next season, they would have an extra year of development in them over players drafted in 2017.

With the high picks GWS and GC seem likely to end up with this year (more than they can use), I think both clubs would be keen to move some picks/points back a year.

The more I think about this, the more I like the idea (think it was originally mentioned by Scodog? in the trade thread) - interested to hear how you and others see it.

Unfortunately we are not allowed to trade next years Rd 1 pick given the rules around the number of times you can trade your Rd 1 selection in any given year.

The point you make is really valid though insomuch as we need some more of these mid range picks.

Overall though I am not a fan of trading Rd 1 selections for a couple of lesser selections as think you need elite talent and Rd 1 picks give you access to that. I cant think of much elite talent we have (or have had) over the past 6-7 drafts that didn't come via the Rd 1 selection.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Bombers are looking at Ahern and Blues at Pickett. I'd like is to be in that market as well.

Ahern, Pickett and WHE for....

yeah thats what i hear. I think Pickett & Stewart will end up at Collingwood and Carlton but not sure which yet.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Snoop think you are spot on with keys bit just have a query on your mediums discussion
Have discussed with Saintly V before who is a massive Shaz fan about why he likes him?
From what I have seen and living in Sydney it's not much live, Shaz would appear undersized and lacking pace at afl level. I know there were massive wraps on him as a junior, but I don't recall a dominating performance in the VFL, and in the AfL games he was largely 'gifted form wise, he barely touched the ball. Given another knee reco his speed is perhaps more of a negative, so unsure why a lot of people still see him as the great hope? I am not knocking him as I admire his deduction through a horrible injury run, but players with his background don't come good too often. Was his junior footy that good?
I don't understand the preference for marsh over Goldsack that buck has. Marsh has pace and closing speed but his decision making pretty horrible. Gold quick enough for his size , disciplined and a good kick.


Ramsay Keeefe Goldsack
Maynard Reid Wells. And smith rotating off bench
Where is Howe? I like him given a go as HHF as whilst kicking is great technically I think he leans to the riskier option too often which won't be part of a serious contenders DNA. Ramsay Kaynard Goldsack all capable of taking kick out responsibilities. Think Maynard at 19 the one we should invest in. I admit to being a knocker earlier in his career, but I think he took big steps in his development last half of 16.
an aside this is a great thread , in fact the only thing I read on bigfooty nowadays. Thanks for the time you put into it

Scharenberg is circa 188cm from memory so is a good size and has a pretty strong frame....or at least will. he was never quick. What he was as a junior was a great reader of the ball and interceptor. He could then make really good decisions on the way out and was very coachable. If you want to liken him to a player it was Goddard. Again not quick but had enough. His talent laid more on his reading of the play, his decision making and execution. Remember he performed really well at every level he played as a junior which included senior footy. I think the other thing to remember with him is that he very much has the scope to play in the middle and did that again at senior level. Also seen him play effectively as a medium forward but I doubt he plays there. I just have my fingers crossed bc if he gets through pre season we have our Rd 1 pick for this year ready to go.

I must have missed Howe. Recruitment of Mayne says to me he is staying back. Agree on Maynard. Coming along nicely. Would have been very hard for him playing with so many different back half players this year.

 

[Kilmo]

I would love Stewart at the pies.

If he picks Carlton instead, I wonder could it be to do with the supposed acrimony over his unceremonious non-nomination as F/S? (According to his father)

Or are AFL players not that petty?

Surely no one would pick the blues, even with a decent coach, especially not the son of a pies grand final player... Maybe I'm just being romantic.

Anyway, get it done Gubby!

 

[Snoop Dog]

Jakey too

Jake Barrett, from Temora in southern NSW, was recruited by the GIANTS in the 2013 NAB AFL Draft as a NSW zone selection player. He is a tough midfielder with a great work-rate and endurance. Barrett is the first cousin of Hawthorn premiership player Luke Breust and second cousin on former Dally M winner and NRL star Trent Barrett.

SEASON PREVIEW
2016
A strong season in the NEAFL from the tough on-baller was rewarded when Barrett made his debut as the sub for the GIANTS in round 23 against Melbourne. The 20-year-old averaged 29 possessions a game in the NEAFL - 14 of those contested - and was ranked first in the competition for tackles. Barrett's quality season was rewarded when he was named in the NEAFL Team of the Year.

He can play but he isn't what we need. He is a contested beast. He needs to go to a club that need an inside midfielder. Again I reckon would really rate him but just not sure where he fits for us. Essendon and Carlton would offer him better opportunities.

 

[Apex36]

Scharenberg is circa 188cm from memory

191cm

 

[Aishole]

Snoop think you are spot on with keys bit just have a query on your mediums discussion
Have discussed with Saintly V before who is a massive Shaz fan about why he likes him?
From what I have seen and living in Sydney it's not much live, Shaz would appear undersized and lacking pace at afl level. I know there were massive wraps on him as a junior, but I don't recall a dominating performance in the VFL, and in the AfL games he was largely 'gifted form wise, he barely touched the ball. Given another knee reco his speed is perhaps more of a negative, so unsure why a lot of people still see him as the great hope? I am not knocking him as I admire his deduction through a horrible injury run, but players with his background don't come good too often. Was his junior footy that good?
I don't understand the preference for marsh over Goldsack that buck has. Marsh has pace and closing speed but his decision making pretty horrible. Gold quick enough for his size , disciplined and a good kick.


Ramsay Keeefe Goldsack
Maynard Reid Wells. And smith rotating off bench
Where is Howe? I like him given a go as HHF as whilst kicking is great technically I think he leans to the riskier option too often which won't be part of a serious contenders DNA. Ramsay Kaynard Goldsack all capable of taking kick out responsibilities. Think Maynard at 19 the one we should invest in. I admit to being a knocker earlier in his career, but I think he took big steps in his development last half of 16.
an aside this is a great thread , in fact the only thing I read on bigfooty nowadays. Thanks for the time you put into it

Think Jake Lever from Adelaide, very similar player.
Not quick, but intercepts, is smart, and uses the ball well.

 

[JustInsideFifty]

Unfortunately we are not allowed to trade next years Rd 1 pick given the rules around the number of times you can trade your Rd 1 selection in any given year.

The point you make is really valid though insomuch as we need some more of these mid range picks.

Overall though I am not a fan of trading Rd 1 selections for a couple of lesser selections as think you need elite talent and Rd 1 picks give you access to that. I cant think of much elite talent we have (or have had) over the past 6-7 drafts that didn't come via the Rd 1 selection.

Thanks for the reply.
From what information I can find about the trading rules though, we would be able to trade our first next year, we just need to use any two first round picks over a four year period.
In the scenarios I mentioned we would use 2 first round picks this year, meaning we have fulfilled this obligation for the next few years (would need to use 2 first round picks again before end of 2020).
Not looking to argue, but I think you might be mistaken on this, or I was unclear about what I meant in my original post (quite possible!).
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-08-12/the-futurepick-puzzle
That is the best article I have found regarding these rules - (from the article) "AFL.com.au confirmed with the AFL that as long as a club has two first-round picks in a four-year period, they comply with the rules surrounding future first-round draft picks that were introduced ahead of last year's trading period."
Again, thanks for your reply.

 

[TW Sherrin]

NEAFL would be VFL reserves or lower.

If AFL listed players can't dominate at that level they are class A potatoes.

 

[doodles98]

Been away. Just got back ... apologies if this has been done. Gault has done the houdini again. Wtf!! This guy is the luckiest list clogger in AFL.

 

[Apex36]

Been away. Just got back ... apologies if this has been done. Gault has done the houdini again. Wtf!! This guy is the luckiest list clogger in AFL.

There are still more list lodgements to do. Gault every chance to be cut.

 

[northpie]

Scharenberg is circa 188cm from memory so is a good size and has a pretty strong frame....or at least will. he was never quick. What he was as a junior was a great reader of the ball and interceptor. He could then make really good decisions on the way out and was very coachable. If you want to liken him to a player it was Goddard. Again not quick but had enough. His talent laid more on his reading of the play, his decision making and execution. Remember he performed really well at every level he played as a junior which included senior footy. I think the other thing to remember with him is that he very much has the scope to play in the middle and did that again at senior level. Also seen him play effectively as a medium forward but I doubt he plays there. I just have my fingers crossed bc if he gets through pre season we have our Rd 1 pick for this year ready to go.

I must have missed Howe. Recruitment of Mayne says to me he is staying back. Agree on Maynard. Coming along nicely. Would have been very hard for him playing with so many different back half players this year.