Snoops 2016 List Management, Trade and Draft thoughts

jackcass

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 8, 2007
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What a poor synopsis

The trading was NOT a disaster!!! We don't know how it going to play out

Try and stay balanced!


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Disaster might be a bit over the top but overall I think it's a pretty good synopsis. I don't think we did as well as we'd have liked with our trades. I know I had Witts valued as a late 1st - early 2nd but in an environment where players dictate where they'll go picks 44 & 62 was reasonable. Would have been nice to get an early 1st rounder in somehow or upgrade our pick 28 to something in the early 20's but even with an upgrade I'm not sure who we'd have taken if not McLarty.
 

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Wooljay

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 18, 2009
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I don't see the trade period as too poor just because we didn't lose a single best 22 player other than Marsh who wasn't even a trade.

We seemed as a whole to over value players who played a lot (or almost all) of 2016 in the VFL.

Only time will tell, but I don't see Frost, Williams, Cloke or Witts being staggering losses.
 

TradeDraft

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I don't see the trade period as too poor just because we didn't lose a single best 22 player other than Marsh who wasn't even a trade.

We seemed as a whole to over value players who played a lot (or almost all) of 2016 in the VFL.

Only time will tell, but I don't see Frost, Williams, Cloke or Witts being staggering losses.
Brown and Frost where Borderline Best 22 at FB
 

Saintly Viewed

bear time
Aug 10, 2015
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I don't see the trade period as too poor just because we didn't lose a single best 22 player other than Marsh who wasn't even a trade.

We seemed as a whole to over value players who played a lot (or almost all) of 2016 in the VFL.

Only time will tell, but I don't see Frost, Williams, Cloke or Witts being staggering losses.
Good summation.
For Witts I'd prefer we had received more, but his contract finishing hurt us.
I'd have kept him for depth.
Cant win them all
 

El cane

All Australian
Mar 28, 2016
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561
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Anyone nervous about Hine taking the vacant Brisbane Lions list chief role? Or will he be happier Gubby is gone and his old pal Walsh is back?
 

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Quicky

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May 27, 2008
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yeah good post.

I think maynard has to be there. As much for the point you make about consistency. Howe, Maynard and Reid played a lot of footy together last year so for mine I would have them in and to be fair probably Smith as well. I think the clubs view of him was he played his role really well and I think he is well in the mix for a starting spot and head to head with Sinclair I guess. I would also have Goldsack. I was super impressed with him in the Dogs game at ES where I think he demonstrated he is that wise head in the back half we lack. I'd have Ramsay as the other one.

For me it would be more;

RAMSAY - KEEFE - GOLDSACK
MAYNARD - REID - HOWE

I/C - SMITH / VARCOE
If I were to play Maynard, and until recently I had him in my back six, and Goldsack it would look like this:

FB: ~ Howe ~ Keeffe ~ Maynard
HB: ~ Ramsay ~ Reid ~ Goldsack
Int: ~ Sinclair

One of Howe or Ramsay needs to play deep back for kick-ins. I like Maynard more in the deep shut down role, at least until he finds his feet more. Sinclair is the seventh defensive option for his run.

Varcoe would be interchange but would be more a midfield option. He'd be taking Aish's spot on the bench. The flow on from having Maynard for me is that Aish would be playing twos.

On the back line, I don't have a lot of faith in Keeffe. I like his attributes, but feel he drops his head too easily. We need to play him because he is our best option but I'm a little concerned about that need.
 

El cane

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Mar 28, 2016
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He's not likely to go anywhere. He and our other recruiters literally just renewed their contracts a couple of months ago.

Aside from that, he's got no reason to leave anymore with no Gubby stepping on his toes.
Good to hear they renewed contracts recently, I missed that news. The club could do with some stability
 

Scodog10

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Jul 25, 2008
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Anyone nervous about Hine taking the vacant Brisbane Lions list chief role? Or will he be happier Gubby is gone and his old pal Walsh is back?
I'd like to clarify. Why is it exactly that we would be nervous about that? Hine is contracted long term and his results over the past 5 years have been mixed. I don't think it would be a bad thing necissarily for all parties if it fell that way.

Good to hear they renewed contracts recently, I missed that news. The club could do with some stability
I'm sorry, but I consider myself reasonably well informed and I again have to clarify. What exactly do you mean by "some stability"?

Our administration and football areas have been stable to the point of stagnant in recent memory. The only position that's seen change is GM of footy.

Senior coach 5 years, recruiting team 5 drafts, coaching panel Hart and Harvey have been there the same length of time as Buckley plus Burns is entering his 4th season, CEO going on 10 years, president nearing 20 and the biggest cluster **** of all "high performance" manager entering his 4th year despite what can only be described as poor results.

Overall I'm just curious as to what you were basing that comment on because stability has always been a key component of Ed's operations!
 
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El cane

All Australian
Mar 28, 2016
684
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Yeah fair questions indeed when you put the numbers that way. I mean stability in the media, I should have said in the media. I'm living outside Australia so I only have the media and BF to go by.

With the whole Gubby saga, Balme exit and the apparent drugs scandal before round 1 I feel like we've been on a hiding to nothing.

Maybe it's just a media beat up, you may know more about the club than me. It just seemed to me every mens football story this year was negative up until Gubby's departure.

The club has obviously achieved a lot in setting up women's football and netball teams so the organisation is doing something right.
 

TradeDraft

Premium Gold
Oct 18, 2009
118,760
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Mornington Peninsula
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Yeah fair questions indeed when you put the numbers that way. I mean stability in the media, I should have said in the media. I'm living outside Australia so I only have the media and BF to go by.

With the whole Gubby saga, Balme exit and the apparent drugs scandal before round 1 I feel like we've been on a hiding to nothing.

Maybe it's just a media beat up, you may know more about the club than me. It just seemed to me every mens football story this year was negative up until Gubby's departure.

The club has obviously achieved a lot in setting up women's football and netball teams so the organisation is doing something right.
I agree that last year there was only 1 Good News Story from the Men's Season and that was Mason Cox but the Rest where all Negative.

The Women's stuff helped soften the Blow of them
 

Scodog10

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Jul 25, 2008
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Yeah fair questions indeed when you put the numbers that way. I mean stability in the media, I should have said in the media. I'm living outside Australia so I only have the media and BF to go by.

With the whole Gubby saga, Balme exit and the apparent drugs scandal before round 1 I feel like we've been on a hiding to nothing.

Maybe it's just a media beat up, you may know more about the club than me. It just seemed to me every mens football story this year was negative up until Gubby's departure.

The club has obviously achieved a lot in setting up women's football and netball teams so the organisation is doing something right.
That's fair enough! My perspective is certainly skewed by my displeasure of our current position anyway. The media seem to take pleasure in overdramatising certain aspects and not highlighting others.

Ultimately winning covers over all cracks so whatever the issues are and whatever the fix is winning will be the key!
 

Snoop Dog

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I think the off field of the club has been really stable but agree with Scodog10 its almost been to stable.

My personal views are they have done a terrific job but its clear that Board as evidenced by the Gubby decision has been somewhat overrun. Its needs to grow a pair and actually start driving decisions not just being told. Have been led to believe there are a few who are close / senior / clever and not on the Board who have made that point to Eddie recently and he has taken it on board.

Re the footy department gee that is going to be interesting. Walsh is a Buckley fan but he aint a Pert fan. I really like him and having met him he is a pretty straight shooter. God I hope we win for many reasons but if we dont going to be interesting watching the fall out. For mine there is no way Buckley can stay if we have another poor year. For multiple reasons he needs an injury free run so we can really gauge him. His stats in 2016 when he had a good list were pretty impressive so their is hope.
 

watt price tully

Senior List
Nov 2, 2012
196
234
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Thought I would do the final wash up of what went on and my thoughts.

Delistings

I cant say I really disagreed with many. Was certainly sad to see Nathan Brown go but along with Jack I think it was pretty clear they would not be preferred for the new season and that Keefe was going to choice # 1. Presumably that was the case because they wanted someone a bit more athletic, a bit quicker, better kick and someone who could be more offensive. Marsh was going to be the guy I guess but clearly needed to head home. In Frost and Brown they weren't really getting any of that. Still for the money Brown was on and the fact he is such a good club guy and we needed depth I probably lent to keeping him as dont think Dunn is that much better but equally the club needed to be transparent I guess and maybe they also wanted the list spot. One thing that Dunn does offer is that he is a much better kick in than anything we have had since Leon Davis.


Trade Period

As a whole the Free Agency and Trading Period for us was a disaster. If we werent just giving players away (Cloke & Brown) then we were giving them away for very little (Witts most certainly and Frost to a lesser extent). At the other end of the spectrum the blokes we brought in we paid a big price for (particularly WHE). Of course wont be known til next year but if we have a low finish then we have paid a very high price. He was a 3rd rounder in my view. Equally Chris Mayne. Thats an awful lot of coin for a player who has been ordinary for 2 years. In an environment where clubs didnt know the cap amount they were pretty loose with the change on that one. Still if Mayne can provide a mobile attacking option, kick some goals and work hard to keep the footy in the front 50 then it allows our structure to have Howe at HB where his kicking and intercepting is highly valued. Given his pay packet 30-40 goals for the season would be a good return for him. As for WHE I think he needs to be playing good senior footy. The club have most probably given a pick 25 for him and a fair wad of cash and that means he needs to be playing senior footy.

Ones that got away we clearly Caleb Marchbank and Michael Hurley. They had a decent crack at both of those and you would have to think Gubby had asked about Tom Rockliff. James Stewart was one I think could have been a miss but the mail is not strong enough overhead. Still would have been worth the 40th spot on our senior list over and above say a Mitch McCarthy. I suspect so. Am told Collingwood were every chance to get him if they wanted him but didnt want him in the end. Given the forward options will be interesting to see how big a bet that one was.


Recruits

Sam McClarty - I rate him. Was a top 10-15 selection earlier in the year but injury curtailed him. As per a couple of other players in similar positions this year it didnt sway Collingwood obviously. I had him in my Phantom and think was one of the few (if not the only) to have him. Can play forward or back, is tough, ok to good kick and attacks the game.

Who they may have missed - For mine the only other pick would have been maybe Cox, Watson or Maibaum. For mine they were all pretty close. If i had to pick one of the 4 I would have chosen Cox.


Callum Brown - Did the right thing matching that bid. They still had a way to go to their next pick so would have been sure therir next best available player would have been there even if they decided to pass.


Kayle Kirby - I really like the selection. Showed huge upside in the games for Richmond and fills a role the club are looking for. Aint fit enough but if he was he would be a chance to come in quickly as has the body to do it. You dont kick 9 goals in two outings of the VFL if you dont have a bit of talent.

Who they may have missed - Whilst supportive I would probably have been looking to Himmelberg and given they took McCarthy later it must have been tempting to select Elliott. Tells me how highly they rated Kirby. I would have thought Dylan Clarke (albeit an average kick), Patrick Kerr and Luke Ryan might have been types they were after. One clubs view of Kerr post draft was doesnt offer enough options to goal (ie one trick pony) and that Luke Ryan needs to mature a bit.

Josh Daicos - Club would have been thrilled he made it that far.


Mitch McCarthy - For mine they got that selection spot on. Was rapt to see him get a go.

Who they may have missed - I would have done exactly what they did.


Henry Schade - Not sold on Henry. Dont think he is offensive enough but clearly they wanted that type of role player and he was probably the one based on that I would have taken that was left. I had him being selected before GC got to him again as thought he fixed a spot for a few clubs. If I had known that was the type they wanted their then for mine he as the one.

Who they missed - Brett Eddy. I would have taken him if they went for a different player type. Personally was surprised that through the trade or draft period nothing was done around tall forward options. FWIW I dont count Mayne as one.


Liam Mackie - Running HB type. Got speed and is a lovely kick but is coming from a fair way back and will be a project player. Walker would have been my pick but he lacks speed and that was what counted against him am told. Still an elite kick that knows how to find the footy and sure he can become a Rampe type player.


Max Lynch
- Terrific selection for mine. We needed a ruck and would have taken he or Olango. What I like about Max is he is big and aggressive. Reminds me of a Darren Jolly type ruck. Will be ready sooner than you think.
Thanks for your time & effort. Enjoyed reading it. I agree about Brown but free agency is free agency.

I'm hoping we don't get too exposed by teams with tall big strong men & decent midfields half backs who can propel the ball forward & quickly. I suspect we might be found wanting notwithstanding having the so called "best midfield in the universe in 2017". Then again the same may well be true of other teams!

I'm hoping Mayne can prove you wrong (I'm sure you are too). Some times a change of environment, closer to family & friends etc can spark a new lease on footy life.

I have a slightly higher opinion on Dunn but he is not huge & Brown could take a decent mark. I also agree about the trading period where the rules of anarchy seem to apply. Marsh wile not always the best decision maker IMO did provide spark, run & could take a big mark if needed. he was developing.

Like many I'm really looking forward to Kayle Kirby joining our team.

Thanks again. WPT
 

TradeDraft

Premium Gold
Oct 18, 2009
118,760
48,777
Mornington Peninsula
AFL Club
Collingwood
I think the off field of the club has been really stable but agree with Scodog10 its almost been to stable.

My personal views are they have done a terrific job but its clear that Board as evidenced by the Gubby decision has been somewhat overrun. Its needs to grow a pair and actually start driving decisions not just being told. Have been led to believe there are a few who are close / senior / clever and not on the Board who have made that point to Eddie recently and he has taken it on board.

Re the footy department gee that is going to be interesting. Walsh is a Buckley fan but he aint a Pert fan. I really like him and having met him he is a pretty straight shooter. God I hope we win for many reasons but if we dont going to be interesting watching the fall out. For mine there is no way Buckley can stay if we have another poor year. For multiple reasons he needs an injury free run so we can really gauge him. His stats in 2016 when he had a good list were pretty impressive so their is hope.
I also hope we win as IF we don't we could see Changes at Head Coach and Pert. Even the Board would not be Safe
 
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