So... Hale or Bailey?

[dipper86]

Can someone please explain why Hale doesn't jump at the center bounce contests.......All I can come up with is that he's either injured or his not a fan of body contact. If he continues down this path be prepared for an absolute smashing in the clearances by our opposition in the coming weeks.

 

[Thaihawk]

Can someone please explain why Hale doesn't jump at the center bounce contests.......All I can come up with is that he's either injured or his not a fan of body contact. If he continues down this path be prepared for an absolute smashing in the clearances by our opposition in the coming weeks.

I noticed the same thing earlier in the year. Surely it must be a tactic, or Monkey would be all over him.

 

[Argy]

I've noticed that too - and it's not only Hale. I think it's a tactic. A fair few times the opposition jumping ruckman misses the ball and our guy cleans up (well somtimes).

 

[Neville Bartos]

Definitely a tactic. He's been doing it all year and to be honest, it wins more than it loses plus it means he's grounded and ready to contribute to the contest when the ball hits the deck.

It'll work against almost everyone except West Coast.

 

[Boyler_Room]

I'd take Hale in at the moment on an underdone Bailey but against West Coast I would take all three.

 

[Hodge is God]

What I think in a shorter version:

Well, we have 4 big men. They are Rough, Bud, Hale and Bails.
Rough and Bud are automatic ins.
3 is the limit of big men.
But Bud doesn't ruck, Rough does.
Rough can't ruck on his own.
So, what about Hale and Bails?
Can't have both, to big.
Hale can tap but also offers options around the ground, Bails just taps.
Hale wins, offers more.
Bails unfortunate.

 

[onthemoney]

I'd take Hale in at the moment on an underdone Bailey but against West Coast I would take all three.

I think I agree with you here. Against the Eagles in a fortnight we might see both of them in. Horses for courses.

 

[Henry Jr]

His work around the ground was fantastic but his 30 taps just seemed ineffectual to me - more just bringing the ball to ground rather than palming to advantage, and against pretty average (being kind) opposition he should have really cleaned up. Certainly, and without the stats to confirm my views, when Roughy was in the middle the centre square group had more direction, more purpose imo.

Hitouts to Advantage

HFC 19 to GCS 3

 

[TAITA]

Hitouts to Advantage

HFC 19 to GCS 3

Haha - I just knew it would be something like that - the thing was mate it just didn't translate across into quality clearances - my "eye stats" tell me we are going to be in a lot of trouble if we go hybrid against 2 genuine rucks at both Sydney (people shouldn't totally disregard Pike) & WCE.

 

[Henry Jr]

Haha - I just knew it would be something like that - the thing was mate it just didn't translate across into quality clearances - my "eye stats" tell me we are going to be in a lot of trouble if we go hybrid against 2 genuine rucks at both Sydney (people shouldn't totally disregard Pike) & WCE.

Im not sure that Bailey Hits to Adv is that much different to Hale/Rough. Hale and Rough were 2nd and 3rd in clearances on the weekend (7 and 6 respectively). Ablett had 6 for the day.

I agree that Pike is very underated by the football public out there. He's been playing the game for 2-3 years and safe to say he's ahead of Bailey.

 

[sohsam]

Im not sure that Bailey Hits to Adv is that much different to Hale/Rough. Hale and Rough were 2nd and 3rd in clearances on the weekend (7 and 6 respectively). Ablett had 6 for the day.

I agree that Pike is very underated by the football public out there. He's been playing the game for 2-3 years and safe to say he's ahead of Bailey.

The only difference is Bailey is 207 cm and if he jumps he can negate effects of good ruckman. It all depends whether you believe in ruckman or not. If not, then Hale/Roughead combination is okay, they offer good marking options around the ground and in fwd line. Bailey is underdone, so if he cannot ruck at least 50% of time, then makes sense not to use him.

 

[Glenferrie Oval]

Haha - I just knew it would be something like that - the thing was mate it just didn't translate across into quality clearances - my "eye stats" tell me we are going to be in a lot of trouble if we go hybrid against 2 genuine rucks at both Sydney (people shouldn't totally disregard Pike) & WCE.

And that's the million dollar question for me. Can Hale break even in the ruck against the WCE and Sydney. Against collingwood, on current form, he will have no problem. But if WCE and Sydney can get centre clearances at will then we are likely to be in trouble. One of the bonuses of playing these two teams in the final two games is to find this out.
Sure bringing in Bailey takes the position of a runner or flanker out of the team but if this will stop the dominant opposition rucks then it may need to be done.
Bailey's form may not warrant him being picked anyway.

 

[Gralin]

Coaches votes this week Hale got 10 I think that says about all that needs to be said at this point, until Bailey can improve the rest of his game Hale is the number 1 choice

 

[TAITA]

Coaches votes this week Hale got 10 I think that says about all that needs to be said at this point, until Bailey can improve the rest of his game Hale is the number 1 choice

Whilst it is true that you are only as good as your last game - rather simplistic don't you think?

Sort of like saying because Australia controlled and 'won' the situation in East Timor we will obviously win the next World War.

 

[Gralin]

Whilst it is true that you are only as good as your last game - rather simplistic don't you think?

Sort of like saying because Australia controlled and 'won' the situation in East Timor we will obviously win the next World War.

I think Hale has been good all year other than a game or two, I think that Max has the potential to be a better all round ruckman but at this stage Hale offers more to the team, my point was that he got BOG as voted by both coaches meaning that he played a complete game not just tap ruck and that he is doing exactly what Clarko is asking of him, until Max can do that he isn't going to push Hale out of the team

 

[TAITA]

I think Hale has been good all year other than a game or two, I think that Max has the potential to be a better all round ruckman but at this stage Hale offers more to the team, my point was that he got BOG as voted by both coaches meaning that he played a complete game not just tap ruck and that he is doing exactly what Clarko is asking of him, until Max can do that he isn't going to push Hale out of the team

I understand what you are saying mate and my analogy was no particular shot at you - Hale was great and I really hope (and we need) for him to stand up again this week.

However, in this 'Supercoach/Dreamteam' age many are all too quick to judge on the rawest of statistics rather than believe their own eyes.

Is a ruckman's game where he has 16-20 taps to advantage that translate into clearances and 10-14 I50's and a few touches around the ground superior to many 30 possession games?

It's all subjective, but I would suggest if you can give your best users of the ball first use of the ball, you are at an advantage.

 

[Gralin]

Certainly if your ruckman can give your team first use and in such a way that you can get a clean clearance it is huge. Especially if you have the midfield and forwards to take advanage.

But the work around the ground can be just as important, look at the huge game saving defensive marks Dean Cox has taken over the journey as an example of the other impact a ruckman can have.

I'm a big fan of Bailey I think the kid has amazing heart and I would love to see him become an elite ruckman.

I agree that stats are not the best judge of a game, influence and impact on the final result is. Cyril being a perfect example of quality over quantity

 

[Henry Jr]

And that's the million dollar question for me. Can Hale break even in the ruck against the WCE and Sydney. Against collingwood, on current form, he will have no problem. But if WCE and Sydney can get centre clearances at will then we are likely to be in trouble. One of the bonuses of playing these two teams in the final two games is to find this out.
Sure bringing in Bailey takes the position of a runner or flanker out of the team but if this will stop the dominant opposition rucks then it may need to be done.
Bailey's form may not warrant him being picked anyway.

Spot on brother

 

[Henry Jr]

I agree that stats are not the best judge of a game, influence and impact on the final result is. Cyril being a perfect example of quality over quantity

I have no doubt, that ALL clubs when they break it all down, would follow the trail of each and every hitout to see what the final result is (goal/behind/another stoppage).

 

[KAMSTAR HFC]

I really wanted to see Bailey come back and play well. I'm still scratching my head as to why he was out for so long with a wrist injury. He has all the attributes to become a much better ruckman/player than Hale.

Hale has been good though and deserves his spot as the number one ruckman.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

Coaches votes this week Hale got 10 I think that says about all that needs to be said at this point, until Bailey can improve the rest of his game Hale is the number 1 choice

Hale was up against a couple of babies in terms of ruckmen. He should have been prominently placed in the votes, given his level of experience.

The concern that I still have about Hale is that he tends to disappear when he's playing good ruckmen (which is reflected in the AFLCA votes handed out this season), and he'll be up against one this Saturday. Hale has played some very good footy this season, but it tends to be against weaker teams with less well-regarded ruckmen than others. Here is a big chance for Hale to prove the doubters wrong and seize the day against Mumford.

 

[Milkman_Joe]

Coming up against Mumford, then Cox/Naitanui over the next fortnight will give us a good indication of how effective our Hale/Roughead combination will be over the final series.

 

[icefreak]

Bailey played very well against sydney last year, bring in all 3 talls stick hale or roughy down back

 

[christoff91]

Bailey played very well against sydney last year, bring in all 3 talls stick hale or roughy down back

its a shame he hasn't been named this week. He did play well against sydney.

 

[icefreak]

its a shame he hasn't been named this week. He did play well against sydney.

Well with the rumours Mitchell may not be fit enough even though he was named, and I wouldn't be surprised if Ellis or someone gets pulled out and bailey brought in.