So... Hale or Bailey?

[Rudi Gilham]

Max Bailey appears reminiscent of former Geelong ruckman, Mark Blake. A promising exponent of the art of ruckwork, who seems incapable of having an impact around the ground - yet.

The Hale/Roughead pairing for mine.

 

[Buddy Guy]

I am surprised this is still being debated.
Hale and Rough combo easily.

 

[Henry Jr]

So what did we learn? Not a great deal. Both have elements they need to work on - my personal belief is that against the best sides we gain more with the better ruckman, but by the same token, that's where you'd expect a "get out of jail" bomb down the line to be used most often.

Come finals, there's is less uncontested stuff and more kicking it long down the line. This is where Hale has it all over Bailey.

 

[wahawk]

Hale

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Agree on the outcomes, positive and negatives Hank, just a different final decision.

I'd much prefer to be winning the ball out of the middle more often than not, rather than losing the battle in the middle and relying on the defensive presence on the wing.

 

[lickmerocks]

Hale by a mile. Max is non existent around the ground and provides zero in the forward line. Hale has dobbed 19 this year and that's something we have never had b4.

 

[christoff91]

the only problem is hale can go missing in big games, not what you want come finals!

 

[Roger Rogerson]

Max Bailey appears reminiscent of former Geelong ruckman, Mark Blake. A promising exponent of the art of ruckwork, who seems incapable of having an impact around the ground - yet.

The Hale/Roughead pairing for mine.

Ouch that is a whack for Max.

Much more capable with the ball than Blake but agree he doesnt get a heap of it.

Inthink it is horses for courses come finals.

 

[go hawks!!!]

I guess the positive of this discussion is that we have two ready made ruckman entering into the finals, something we have not been able to say for many years. If one goes down, we have a replacement.

 

[Henry Jr]

the only problem is hale can go missing in big games, not what you want come finals!

Which games (where Hale has been #1 Ruckman) has he gone missing?

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

Which games (where Hale has been #1 Ruckman) has he gone missing?

First Q last week.

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

Only gagging.

How's about Max and Hale with the old chestnut Rough to CHB?

 

[Henry Jr]

Well played FT...

Checked on the Hits to Adv this morning... Both guys around 20% for the Port game.

 

[go hawks!!!]

Only gagging.

How's about Max and Hale with the old chestnut Rough to CHB?

I think the only team we need Rough at CHB against is the nemesis in Geelong and let's hope they run out of gas in week 1 and crash out of the finals.

I think we have Collingwood covered with our current team defence. West Coast the same. Sydney does not have a 'two towers' approach, and therefore Rough should be safe as 2nd ruck and taking the 2nd best defender.

Again it is Hale for me as the Ruckman, Bailey only played 78% game time, he needs a bigger tank next year IMO but I understand he had a signifciant injury this year.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

Come finals, there's is less uncontested stuff and more kicking it long down the line. This is where Hale has it all over Bailey.

Hale was worse than useless at this in the 2011 qualifying final against the Cats. The Hawks were desperate for marks up around the wing or at least a contest where they could get the ball over the line and reset for a boundary throw-in. What happened? The Cats managed time after time after time to manoeuvre Hale out of the way and pump the ball back into Hawthorn's defensive 50.

Hale has been a big improvement this season on his 2011 campaign, but I fear that he is still a battler as a ruckman. It's unfortunate that Hawthorn plays the GCS this Sunday because it's a big step up to take on Mummy on his own patch next week. I'm sure in the back of Clarkson's mind is the fact that in 2011, Bailey did a very serviceable job in Hawthorn's win over Sydney in Sydney while Hale was out injured.

 

[Henry Jr]

Hale was worse than useless at this in the 2011 qualifying final against the Cats. The Hawks were desperate for marks up around the wing or at least a contest where they could get the ball over the line and reset for a boundary throw-in. What happened? The Cats managed time after time after time to manoeuvre Hale out of the way and pump the ball back into Hawthorn's defensive 50.

And yet, Bailey played in the game but he gets off without a mention? So where was Bailey that night?

 

[GAS PANIC]

And yet, Bailey played in the game but he gets off without a mention? So where was Bailey that night?

While that is true Hale hasnt really done anything to change that perception this year against Geelong. Last time we played them he got consistently beaten in the first half by a 7 gamer which helped Geelong get off to such a great start. hale did come back into the game but that was because Stephenson lacks the fitness level to run out games well as has happened during the later half of this season.

While Max was average in that game he hasnt played against them since while Hale has contnually failed to excert his influence and experience in these games.

 

[Henry Jr]

While that is true Hale hasnt really done anything to change that perception this year against Geelong. Last time we played them he got consistently beaten in the first half by a 7 gamer which helped Geelong get off to such a great start. hale did come back into the game but that was because Stephenson lacks the fitness level to run out games well as has happened during the later half of this season.

Best you back and watch the second quarter mate. According to Champion Data, Hale was the most influential player in the second quarter.

While Max was average in that game he hasnt played against them since while Hale has contnually failed to excert his influence and experience in these games.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/so-hale-or-bailey.963821/page-6#post-25194803

 

[QuietB]

Best you back and watch the second quarter mate. According to Champion Data, Hale was the most influential player in the second quarter.



http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/so-hale-or-bailey.963821/page-6#post-25194803

And blokes are allowed a bad quarter every now and then. The whole Hawks team had their worst quater of the year, individually and collectively. I have been really impressed with the Hale/Rough combo this year. So long as it is only one of Hale or bailey I am happy. Both and I am ropable (except against muppets).

 

[christoff91]

Looks like both Bailey and Hale are in again this week, with Roughy! It will be good to see how they work together if Clarko doesn't pull any out.

 

[TAITA]

Hale by a mile. Max is non existent around the ground and provides zero in the forward line. Hale has dobbed 19 this year and that's something we have never had b4.

Michael Byrne says hello - 47 goals in 1982 (a non premiership year FWIW).

 

[Dixie Flatline]

And yet, Bailey played in the game but he gets off without a mention? So where was Bailey that night?

Bailey isn't good around the ground - everyone knows that. Hale, on the other hand, is meant to give more around the ground. But he is routinely beaten in the type of situation Hawthorn finds itself in when it's looking for a ruckman to at least create a contest when the ball is quickly booted out of defence. More often than not, he's outpositioned and outmarked.

 

[TAITA]

The good Doc J summed it up perfectly for mine - you cannot risk leaving aside a genuine A Grade thoroughbred ruckman for a 'bitsa' and possibly losing control of the guts in the process for a mythical couple of goals, and I say that with no disrespect to David Hale.

If we have control of the centre square, the goals will rain down irregardless.

What would be your take if Fremantle played Zac Clarke instead of Sandilands? (and Sandy is a pretty average ruckman at the best of times in reality)

As good as Hale has been - and I believe you can fit both in the team - Bails is the Number 1, and you work out how to fit Hale into the structure after that.

 

[christoff91]

In my opinion Baileys tackling/2nd efforts are better than Hales. If only he could take a few contested grabs though. Hale has him beaten there.

 

[Jiggystoon]

Max Bailey appears reminiscent of former Geelong ruckman, Mark Blake. A promising exponent of the art of ruckwork, who seems incapable of having an impact around the ground - yet.

The Hale/Roughead pairing for mine.

Bit rough on Max that, Bailey is a much better then Blake was imo, I still think there is a spot for Max in the side, there are going to be times when we need a bona fide ruckman in the middle, Hale isnt that, and if you take Hale out of the side we still have the means to kick a winning score, in other words, if Hale wasnt kicking his 3 or 4 every week he wouldnt be in the side