Politics So I guess when the sh*t hits the fan, everyone's a socialist

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Baltimore Jack

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Bloody debt and deficit disaster. News-scum will be all over this, for sure.
During the entire GFC Labor spent a total of $56B and the RWNJ went off their collective faces screaming about debt and how it would destroy life as we know it

Yet spending a total of $306B on this pandemic (so far) and it's "meh, so what"?

LNP....you have to admire their hypocrisy
 

Number37

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During the entire GFC Labor spent a total of $56B and the RWNJ went off their collective faces screaming about debt and how it would destroy life as we know it

Yet spending a total of $306B on this pandemic (so far) and it's "meh, so what"?

LNP....you have to admire their hypocrisy

So far...is the key.

If they revert to type and we start seeing austerity maybe, just maybe, we will finally get to a point where the electorate sees through their bullsh*t .
I'm not convinced yet. The electorate is too easily conned by News-scum.
 

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Nickoo

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And thats the thing, isn't it? When they act based on data people just claim its false or fabricated. When they go off common sense or make a gut call people get angry they didn't go off the data.
Well you’d hope there’s some backup to support such an onerous additional measure but of course there is none. Just like there’s no supporting evidence for other horrendous calls like only 20% of healthcare worker infections are at work when the real figure is over 85%. And PPE guidelines and on and on it goes.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

The Cryptkeeper

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It's you that has the all or nothing approach. Yet you allow exemptions because apparently the virus can tell the difference between one form of protest but not another.

What do I want?
A common sense approach based on a reasonable summary of medical opinion not a closeted lock down lock down based on the running of a select few.
Some common sense proportional measures in public spaces to minimise risk.
The government not to interfere with the private lives of its citizens with outrageous over reach.

And answers to the following would be nice:

What is the overall long term strategy the government is pursuing?
Why has public advice on long term medical practices i.e. Masks and their effectiveness in containing viral spread been so contradictory since the start of the year? (Masks were not advisable no suddenly compulsory)
Why are the health implications of Covid been such a narrow focus and not the health effects from such sever lockdowns?
Given Australia has not any excess deaths in total in any state and nursing home deaths in Victoria have been less than last year to this point what is the scientific evidence behind such lockdowns?
What is the threshold been used for positive tests? Would this viral load pose a risk of wide spread contagion?

Given this is the first disease I have ever heard of with asymptomatic spread (especially when a number of cases are unknown to the carrier) could you detail the medical advice that renders the need to quarantine healthy individuals? (Something that has never been wide spread practice in medicine before?)
Why are police behaving so heavy handed when previous protests at the height of the pandemic were allowed to go ahead?
What legal advice has been sought to the Constitutional legality of border closures?
Is the government in breach of the Australian Human Rights Act: Article 22 (Australia is a signatory)?

Victoria: Does this breach the Human Rights of citizens against Victoria's own charter of human rights?
Given the Public Health Act gives control of State of Emergency and State of Disaster control to the Emergency Services Minister why is the Premier and not Lisa Neville calling the shots?
What is Brett Sutton's role? Is he an adviser or as the CHO should he be given full control at the direction of the ES Minister?
What a nonsense rant.

Truly pathetic.
 

The Cryptkeeper

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What questions are nonsense? Not much of an argument. Thou I guess wasn't expecting much else.
The whole rant was pathetic. It’s almost as though you’ve predicated your diatribe on the notion that we’ve all been through this before.

You really think there is time for a court case to determine constitutional authority over things like border closures? We are in the middle of the biggest global health crisis since the Spanish Flu. Our politicians and officials have to make and often unpopular decisions. They’ve got some wrong but more often than not the measures in place have been correct. Right now, nobody gives a fcuk about your civil liberties. Got it, you self-entitled sod?

Then you carry on about mask wearing, completely discounting that new scientific evidence regarding the best way to combat this is coming to hand almost daily. The whole situation is evolving but your thinking hasn’t.

Wind your neck in.
 

Run n Spread

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The whole rant was pathetic. It’s almost as though you’ve predicated your diatribe on the notion that we’ve been through this before.

You really think there is time for a court case to determine constitutional authority over things like border closures? We are in the middle of the biggest global health crisis since the Spanish Flu.

Wind your neck in.
Yes actually. If you going to suspend democratic rights and essentially lock people in their homes and destroy people's livlihoods I think very much a court should determine if this is legal. No where else in the world has been locked down this long.
Not to mention all the doctors and medical professionals who have said lockdown are unproven.
 

The Cryptkeeper

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Yes actually. If you going to suspend democratic rights and essentially lock people in their homes and destroy people's livlihoods I think very much a court should determine if this is legal. No where else in the world has been locked down this long.
Not to mention all the doctors and medical professionals who have said lockdown are unproven.
So you’re advocating people get infected and die whilst we wait for a notoriously slow legal system to make decisions?

Pathetic.
 

Ned_Flanders

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Yes actually. If you going to suspend democratic rights and essentially lock people in their homes and destroy people's livlihoods I think very much a court should determine if this is legal. No where else in the world has been locked down this long.
Not to mention all the doctors and medical professionals who have said lockdown are unproven.
we only just equalled the phillipines lockdown today
 

The Cryptkeeper

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Blah, blah, blah, civil rights, blah, blah blah...selfish, insular grubs.

The defence of civil rights is largely why the US has 200,000 dead with no sign of stabilisation.

We have under 1000 and ignorant, selfish pricks want to split hairs over some temporary border closures and the minor inconvenience of wearing a mask?

Human decency has gone to hell in a handbasket.
 

Baltimore Jack

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Yes actually. If you going to suspend democratic rights and essentially lock people in their homes and destroy people's livlihoods I think very much a court should determine if this is legal. No where else in the world has been locked down this long.
Not to mention all the doctors and medical professionals who have said lockdown are unproven.
Did you see those videos of doors being welded shut in the homes of Chinese?

We have a democratic parliament for a reason

Now the fact you are upset with our democracy is of no worth to anyone but you
 

Run n Spread

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So you’re advocating people get infected and die whilst we wait for a notoriously slow legal system to make decisions?

Pathetic.
Courts are also still running. As are supermarkets. Are they responsible for infecting people?
Protection of fundamental human rights is advocating death? Most stupid argument I've heard. Not based on reason logic or a strategic approach but incoherent rambling and emotive clap trap.
 

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Run n Spread

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Did you see those videos of doors being welded shut in the homes of Chinese?

We have a democratic parliament for a reason

Now the fact you are upset with our democracy is of no worth to anyone but you
Yep just as I saw the vision of the tower residents locked in their home under police guard.
This is so ******* ridiculous. CDC has corrected the count. 92% of people dead had co morbidities.
This has about the same death rate symptoms and curve line as a regular influenza season which magically has disappeared.
This is simply a new strain of respiratory illness which is a type of corona virus. As is any other strain that comes out each year.
 

The Cryptkeeper

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Courts are also still running. As are supermarkets. Are they responsible for infecting people?
Protection of fundamental human rights is advocating death? Most stupid argument I've heard. Not based on reason logic or a strategic approach but incoherent rambling and emotive clap trap.
What are these fundamental human rights that you believe are so important as to override public health?

Wearing a mask? Get over yourself. It’s not about you, you ignorant, libertarian goose.
 

Run n Spread

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What are these fundamental human rights that you believe are so important as to override public health?

Wearing a mask? Get over yourself. It’s not about you, you ignorant, libertarian goose.
Well these for starters.

But hey lets go arrest pregnant women, old women on benchers but don't dare touch BLM protesters or Afghan Families who you know spread the virus.

Meanwhile no one can go to funerals meet terminally sick family members or nothing is done for the three fold increase in suicides as a result of lock downs. (Bet they don't get their own press conference). Not to mention the hit the economy will take.

Or for something that kills those at life expectancy with no excess deaths in Australia WITH 92% co morbidities

Get over yourself. You like the Premier are obsessed with this at the expense of everything else.

Come up with a coherent rational argument supporting this crap (which has no long time scientific basis) than just shouting out useless slogans. This goes way beyond masks.


Article 22 of the Human Rights Act which Australia is a signatory
The rights to freedom of peaceful assembly and of association serve as a vehicle for the exercise of many other civil, cultural, economic, political and social rights. The rights are essential components of democracy as they empower men and women to “express their political opinions, engage in literary and artistic pursuits and other cultural, economic and social activities, engage in religious observances or other beliefs


The Victorian Charter of human rights Act contains twenty rights that promote and protect the values of freedom, respect, equality and dignity. The Victorian Government, local councils and other public authorities must consider how human rights are protected when creating legislation, implementing policies or delivering services. The Charter Act protects the following rights in Victoria:



  • Right to move freely within Victoria, to come into and leave Victoria, and to choose where to live
  • Right to privacy and to protect your reputation
  • Freedom of thought, conscience, religion and belief
  • Right to hold an opinion and freedom of expression
  • Right to gather together, take part in a peaceful demonstration or protest, and to join groups such as political, sport or union groups
  • Protection of families and children
 

The Cryptkeeper

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Well these for starters.

But hey lets go arrest pregnant women, old women on benchers but don't dare touch BLM protesters or Afghan Families who you know spread the virus.

Meanwhile no one can go to funerals meet terminally sick family members or nothing is done for the three fold increase in suicides as a result of lock downs. (Bet they don't get their own press conference). Not to mention the hit the economy will take.

Or for something that kills those at life expectancy with no excess deaths in Australia WITH 92% co morbidities

Get over yourself. You like the Premier are obsessed with this at the expense of everything else.

Come up with a coherent rational argument supporting this crap (which has no long time scientific basis) than just shouting out useless slogans. This goes way beyond masks.


Article 22 of the Human Rights Act which Australia is a signatory
The rights to freedom of peaceful assembly and of association serve as a vehicle for the exercise of many other civil, cultural, economic, political and social rights. The rights are essential components of democracy as they empower men and women to “express their political opinions, engage in literary and artistic pursuits and other cultural, economic and social activities, engage in religious observances or other beliefs


The Victorian Charter of human rights Act contains twenty rights that promote and protect the values of freedom, respect, equality and dignity. The Victorian Government, local councils and other public authorities must consider how human rights are protected when creating legislation, implementing policies or delivering services. The Charter Act protects the following rights in Victoria:



  • Right to move freely within Victoria, to come into and leave Victoria, and to choose where to live
  • Right to privacy and to protect your reputation
  • Freedom of thought, conscience, religion and belief
  • Right to hold an opinion and freedom of expression
  • Right to gather together, take part in a peaceful demonstration or protest, and to join groups such as political, sport or union groups
  • Protection of families and children
Dullard, are you missing the fact that there is a global pandemic going on around you?

Your "human rights" are not entitled to infringe upon the wellbeing of others. If the health advice is to not gather in public, then that over-arches anything you think you are entitled to. The health advice is evolving. I believe in all of the same liberties but unlike you I am prepared to sacrifice some or all of them in the short to medium term to keep others safe. I support the BLM movement but they didn't have to protest when they did. Karen from Ballarat doesn't need to gather her soccer mum mates and shout at the clouds either. There are other ways of voicing one's displeasure at the moment.

And there is plenty of scientific evidence, not to mention empirical evidence that the measures taken in this country work. Most of the best epidemiologists in the world support what we are doing.

I can also assure you that the economy would take a bigger long term hit should we open up too early and this gets out of hand again.

But yeah, protect those civil liberties man. How much is granny's life worth anyway, right?
 

Number37

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Well these for starters.

But hey lets go arrest pregnant women, old women on benchers but don't dare touch BLM protesters or Afghan Families who you know spread the virus.

Meanwhile no one can go to funerals meet terminally sick family members or nothing is done for the three fold increase in suicides as a result of lock downs. (Bet they don't get their own press conference). Not to mention the hit the economy will take.

Or for something that kills those at life expectancy with no excess deaths in Australia WITH 92% co morbidities

Get over yourself. You like the Premier are obsessed with this at the expense of everything else.

Come up with a coherent rational argument supporting this crap (which has no long time scientific basis) than just shouting out useless slogans. This goes way beyond masks.


Article 22 of the Human Rights Act which Australia is a signatory
The rights to freedom of peaceful assembly and of association serve as a vehicle for the exercise of many other civil, cultural, economic, political and social rights. The rights are essential components of democracy as they empower men and women to “express their political opinions, engage in literary and artistic pursuits and other cultural, economic and social activities, engage in religious observances or other beliefs


The Victorian Charter of human rights Act contains twenty rights that promote and protect the values of freedom, respect, equality and dignity. The Victorian Government, local councils and other public authorities must consider how human rights are protected when creating legislation, implementing policies or delivering services. The Charter Act protects the following rights in Victoria:



  • Right to move freely within Victoria, to come into and leave Victoria, and to choose where to live
  • Right to privacy and to protect your reputation
  • Freedom of thought, conscience, religion and belief
  • Right to hold an opinion and freedom of expression
  • Right to gather together, take part in a peaceful demonstration or protest, and to join groups such as political, sport or union groups
  • Protection of families and children

So you're all about human rights eh?

Just not these people...

.....but don't dare touch BLM protesters or Afghan Families who you know spread the virus.
Or these people...

Or for something that kills those at life expectancy with no excess deaths in Australia WITH 92% co morbidities


The most bizarre part of your logic is this...

Meanwhile no one can go to funerals meet terminally sick family members or nothing is done for the three fold increase in suicides as a result of lock downs.

Or for something that kills those at life expectancy with no excess deaths in Australia WITH 92% co morbidities
You don't care about protecting people who are gunna die anyway....but you care that people can't attend a funeral.

Seriously?
 
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Run n Spread

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Dullard, are you missing the fact that there is a global pandemic going on around you?

Your "human rights" are not entitled to infringe upon the wellbeing of others. If the health advice is to not gather in public, then that over-arches anything you think you are entitled to. The health advice is evolving. I believe in all of the same liberties but unlike you I am prepared to sacrifice some or all of them in the short to medium term to keep others safe. I support the BLM movement but they didn't have to protest when they did. Karen from Ballarat doesn't need to gather her soccer mum mates and shout at the clouds either. There are other ways of voicing one's displeasure at the moment.

And there is plenty of scientific evidence, not to mention empirical evidence that the measures taken in this country work. Most of the best epidemiologists in the world support what we are doing.

I can also assure you that the economy would take a bigger long term hit should we open up too early and this gets out of hand again.

But yeah, protect those civil liberties man. How much is granny's life worth anyway, right?
I am merely stating if people wish to gather in full knowledge of what is happening they are entitled to accept the risk.

A global pandemic so serious that:
-Most people don't know they have the virus.
-It is predominantly killing people in Nursing Homes with co morbidities. The same people who are killed with something as simple as a gastro outbreak or flu outbreak each year (Bet you weren't barracking for lockdowns in 2017 when 1250+ died of the flu in Victoria).
-The CDC and countires like England have had to adjust their death counts when they were caught fudging the figures.
-Not to mention there are previously widely used drugs such as HACQ and Zinc which are relatively safe and have been shown to reduce symptoms in some cases.

In my lifetime the following Pandemics have occured:
Swine Flu (higher positive rate than Victoria that Covid has), Zika, SARs, Avian Flu, Covid-19 yet apart from this latest none of the extreme measures have been taken.

If lockdowns are so successful why did Victoria's cases spike in the middle of winter (to spite at that point having the most restrictive measures in the country).

You are incapable of assessing risk, applying any critical reasoning, research or anything but just parrtoting mindless bullshit.

But hey Trump or the WW1 Diggers or you just want to kill Granny or what ever mindless sh*t you can think of. Waste of time being on here.
 

Baltimore Jack

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You could change it to

"I am merely stating if people wish to drive at 160kph in full knowledge of what is happening they are entitled to accept the risk"

or

"I am merely stating if people wish to shoot a revolver in a shopping centre in full knowledge of what is happening they are entitled to accept the risk"
 

The Cryptkeeper

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I am merely stating if people wish to gather in full knowledge of what is happening they are entitled to accept the risk.
Didn't bother reading past this.

You're either being deliberately obtuse to wind people up or you are actually just a grub.

If people gathering in full knowledge all contract Covid and then head off to Woolies because you know, human rights or whatever bullshit you are espousing...then anybody at the Woolies who is doing nothing more than buying essentials is then at risk because of those selfish pigs who are hell bent on defending their civil liberty.

Those people at Woolies have a right to feel as safe as possible and their right overshadows whatever "rights" libertarian pigs like you are defending. Why should they carry the burden of your risk?

Got it sport?
 

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