Politics So I guess when the sh*t hits the fan, everyone's a socialist

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ferball

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Jul 24, 2015
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As an ex-financial trader, I always have laughed at how so many people in society have no idea where money comes from. The Australia Government WILL NEVER run out of money. They create the damn stuff.

There are two governments in the world that know this...China and Japan. I'd probably throw America and Trump in there as well.

Japan's infrastructure is the best in the world; they care about their citizens, and they are willing to spend whatever it takes to ensure a decent quality of life is maintained for all.

The Japan Central Bank owns around 50% of gov debt, and this has increased substantially over the last several years, and they will continue to do so. Bond markets haven't and won't collapse; many have tried shorting Japanese Gov bonds - based on fundamental analysis from classical economic theory. Those on the short side have been destroyed.

My gut feel is that the tide is turning against the 'balanced budget' myth that is put forward by too many federal governments and swallowed up by the uneducated and simple folk in the street who think running a government is like running a household.

All we need now is someone in politics who is prepared to truly do some economic form and ensure a better life for all.
After reading that tall blokes small blokes thread i thought you were a real moron.

WEll done proving me wrong.
 

medusala

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In a liberal democracy, your rights are constrained only by the degree they impinge upon anothers. As this pertains to the coronavirus lockdown, you assume the risk for the virus for the next 14 days for each person you meet within that period. So, for the set period of the lockdown, your right to free movement is limited to allow for other's right to survive. Please note, there's no values judgement I'm placing on either position; this is merely to reflect what is and the logic behind it. That is where you challenge this viewpoint, not at the levels you're trying.
This is utter nonsense. I am not going to kill someone by going and sitting on a park bench. I am not going to kill someone by driving to Portsea or playing golf. Such restrictions are unhinged nonsense.

The real world evidence also known as the FACTS say that the overwhelming majority of spread is in nursing homes, hospitals and houses. All places that lockdowns have no effect on.

There is also a growing realisation that asymptomatic spread is nowhere near as bad as thought. Hence if you dont have symptons you arent that likely to pass on the virus. And even if you have symptons the chances of you "killing" someone are extraordinarily low unless you are in contact with someone very sick or very elderly.

So no, their is zero logic to locking up healthy people. None at all.
 

Gethelred

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This is utter nonsense. I am not going to kill someone by going and sitting on a park bench. I am not going to kill someone by driving to Portsea or playing golf. Such restrictions are unhinged nonsense.

The real world evidence also known as the FACTS say that the overwhelming majority of spread is in nursing homes, hospitals and houses. All places that lockdowns have no effect on.

There is also a growing realisation that asymptomatic spread is nowhere near as bad as thought. Hence if you dont have symptons you arent that likely to pass on the virus. And even if you have symptons the chances of you "killing" someone are extraordinarily low unless you are in contact with someone very sick or very elderly.

So no, their is zero logic to locking up healthy people. None at all.
"I disagree with what you're saying" =/= "utter nonsense."

You also aren't actually addressing the logic of the post; that a liberal democracy is as described. You're making the same mistake the prior poster was making. I am also unsurprised this is your stance, medusala.
 
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medusala

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"I disagree with what you're saying" =/= "utter nonsense."

You also aren't actually addressing the logic of the post; that a liberal democracy is as described. You're making the same mistake the prior poster was making. I am also unsurprised this is your stance, medusala.
Lord Sumption re this. I am all for protecting property rights but this clearly isnt a case of this. You dont lock up healthy people.


The biggest casualty of the lockdown will not be the closed pubs, restaurants and shops and the crippled airlines. It will not be our once-thriving musical, theatrical and sporting culture. It will not even be the wreckage of our economy. These are terrible things to behold. But the biggest casualty of all will be liberal democracy.

Liberal democracy breaks down when frightened majorities demand mass coercion of their fellow citizens, and call for our personal spaces to be invaded. These demands are invariably based on what people conceive to be the public good. They all assert that despotism is in the public interest.
 

Gethelred

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Lord Sumption re this. I am all for protecting property rights but this clearly isnt a case of this. You dont lock up healthy people.


The biggest casualty of the lockdown will not be the closed pubs, restaurants and shops and the crippled airlines. It will not be our once-thriving musical, theatrical and sporting culture. It will not even be the wreckage of our economy. These are terrible things to behold. But the biggest casualty of all will be liberal democracy.

Liberal democracy breaks down when frightened majorities demand mass coercion of their fellow citizens, and call for our personal spaces to be invaded. These demands are invariably based on what people conceive to be the public good. They all assert that despotism is in the public interest.
That article doesn't actually disagree with what I contend, that within a liberal democracy your rights extend to the point in which they begin to infringe upon anothers. He isn't interested in how rights are prioritized within a liberal democracy or the function of it, merely in its fragility.

So, beyond the fact that he disagrees with the lockdowns, he doesn't actually disagree with me prima facie. Our arguments do not interact.
 

iBeng

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Apr 3, 2012
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Is he arguing that we should all be free to run amok and spread our germs as we wish? Because THAT would be a pure liberal democracy and, well, chaos.

Living in a society has benefits and it has rules. One of those rules is that you dont jeopardize the health and safety of said society, and that means you take steps to prevent widespread disease.
 

Marcel Proust

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Total Power

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The US have very weak profiteering laws as well. Tarps were being sold for hundreds of dollars each during the Hurricane Katrina crisis.

"Land of the free" - bullshit.
If you have a property in NY that is of decent value, you will be paying 20k+/year in property taxes only. I was tempted to buy a property a few years ago, but didn't cause ii don't want to be paying such high taxes. Consider the pension is about 2k/month, if people have to pay 1.5k/month in taxes out of that....
 

Mofra

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I seem to remember Trump pitting states against each other in bidding wars for PPE gear and testing kits at the start of the Covid pandemic.
They also compete in corporate tax rates - it might be an urban legend, but Delaware supposedly has more registered LLCs than citizens
 

Big_Luch

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Apr 13, 2011
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Republicans reverting to type. oK to waste money on a big ass wall though. Would scomo and co be pricks like this in opposition? You have to wonder.

The democrats did the exact same thing when old mate Trump was in charge.

Two sides of the same coin are the established blood suckers from both parties.
 

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