Politics So I guess when the s**t hits the fan, everyone's a socialist

[HurleyHepsHird]

That's because what we're seeing isn't a free market. Any supply chain / inflation issues are only due to state intervention.

Only the weak crave socialism and state intervention.

lmao

"No true capitalism."

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

More or less. It's State ownership of the means of production (as opposed to the free market model, which is private control of same).

The control over 'other aspects of life' stem from the fact that full blown socialist economies invariably produce tyrannical illiberal States (and require those States to exist in the first place in every example of socialist economies forming).

For what its worth, I also oppose full blown socialism, and support the free market. I'm a liberal.

Next question for you.

Do you consider things like gun control, legalized abortion, same sex marriage, prohibitions on hate speech, health care paid for by the State, (in a nation State that has a free market competitive economy, and in the absence of socialism) 'socialism'?

Incorrect on a number of counts.

 

[HaroLad]

lmao

"No true capitalism."

How is what’s going on now a free market?

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

How is what’s going on now a free market?

The ideal of a perfect free market is an impossible one.

Monopolies will always, form, collusion will always happen, coporate free reign would simply be neoliberal governance unmasked.

A decay into corporatism.

 

[HaroLad]

The ideal of a perfect free market is an impossible one.

Monopolies will always, form, collusion will always happen, coporate free reign would simply be neoliberal governance unmasked.

A decay into corporatism.

I don’t disagree, but you could hardly call the present conditions a free market given states can’t help but arbitrarily impose restrictions making it very difficult to operate.

 

[Pessimistic]

How is what’s going on now a free market?

Free market the w***ers don’t get bailed out in the GFC

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I don’t disagree, but you could hardly call the present conditions a free market given states can’t help but arbitrarily impose restrictions making it very difficult to operate.

Free money for Harvey Norman

 

[HaroLad]

Free market the w***ers don’t get bailed out in the GFC

Free money for Harvey Norman

I don’t understand what that has to do with anything.

 

[Gethelred]

I don’t disagree, but you could hardly call the present conditions a free market given states can’t help but arbitrarily impose restrictions making it very difficult to operate.

The word 'arbitrarily' is doing a fair amount of work there.

Do you think governments regulate on a whim?

 

[Jafa]

The word 'arbitrarily' is doing a fair amount of work there.

Do you think governments regulate on a whim?

Lately - seems like it.

 

[Gethelred]

Lately - seems like it.

Which government, which regulations?

Let's be specific, mind. Let's not have any 'it's the vibe' reasoning. Governments rarely do things for no reason.

 

[HaroLad]

The word 'arbitrarily' is doing a fair amount of work there.

Do you think governments regulate on a whim?

Absolutely they do.

As an unvaccinated person I cannot attend my workplace, despite having natural immunity from COVID, and the fact that the Premier is on record saying two doses offer effectively no protection (and no not prevent transmission). Yet I am free to walk around Chadstone shopping centre, passing thousands of strangers. Meanwhile, they are allowing COVID positive (at least in NSW) or recently exposed nurses to work in hospitals.

 

[Gethelred]

Absolutely they do.

As an unvaccinated person I cannot attend my workplace, despite having natural immunity from COVID, and the fact that the Premier is on record saying two doses offer effectively no protection (and no not prevent transmission). Yet I am free to walk around Chadstone shopping centre, passing thousands of strangers. Meanwhile, they are allowing COVID positive (at least in NSW) or recently exposed nurses to work in hospitals.

Uh-uh.

'Arbitrarily' indicates that there is no reasoning behind the decisions they're making. You might not agree with the reasoning, but that does not indicate there isn't any.

 

[HaroLad]

Uh-uh.

'Arbitrarily' indicates that there is no reasoning behind the decisions they're making. You might not agree with the reasoning, but that does not indicate there isn't any.

There is no reasoning. They make it up as they go and regularly contradict themselves. There’s no foresight, and you cannot predict what they will do next.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Absolutely they do.

As an unvaccinated person I cannot attend my workplace, despite having natural immunity from COVID, and the fact that the Premier is on record saying two doses offer effectively no protection (and no not prevent transmission). Yet I am free to walk around Chadstone shopping centre, passing thousands of strangers. Meanwhile, they are allowing COVID positive (at least in NSW) or recently exposed nurses to work in hospitals.

Are you saying that your workplace is free to refuse entry based on your vaccination status?

 

[Jafa]

Which government, which regulations?

Let's be specific, mind. Let's not have any 'it's the vibe' reasoning. Governments rarely do things for no reason.

McGowan seems to be making s**t up over here on a daily basis. Much of it baffling.

 

[Gethelred]

There is no reasoning.

Demonstrate this, please. Show me the legislation/rules as written, that say, 'We're doing this just 'cause.'

They make it up as they go and regularly contradict themselves. There’s no foresight, and you cannot predict what they will do next.

Just because you don't seek out the methodology behind why they make the decisions they make does not mean it isn't there.

 

[Gethelred]

McGowan seems to be making sh*t up over here on a daily basis. Much of it baffling.

So much for specific.

 

[HaroLad]

Are you saying that your workplace is free to refuse entry based on your vaccination status?

No they aren’t, they are forced to keep me out or face an $100,000 fine which is completely disproportionate to any ‘risk’ (even though there is less risk for me than a vaccinated person who got vaxxed nearly a year ago). I wouldn’t mind so much if they were.

 

[Gethelred]

One might judge their reasoning as insufficient, inadequate, disproportionate, and or in violation of our rights, but one cannot conclude that their reasoning is arbitrary because it is not done without cause or reasoning.

Honestly. There's a difference between 'appears' and 'is'.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Does the state subsidising something equate to socialism? I’m not so sure it does.

Lemon socialism

 

[iBeng]

Lately - seems like it.

This is how regulations work:

Governments bring in regulations to curb workplace deaths/discriminations/monopolies. People complain and complain so the next government cuts back on all that red tape and silly rules. Workplace deaths start to rise, discrimination becomes noticeable and monopolies form when companies start absorbing each other. People demand enough is enough, someone has to do something! Government steps in to apply regulations.

Its a cycle, been going for centuries and wont stop any time soon.

 

[DaRick]

That's because what we're seeing isn't a free market. Any supply chain / inflation issues are only due to state intervention.

Only the weak crave socialism and state intervention.

Tough talk brah.

Too bad that's occured in pretty much every country save Somalia for roughly 25 years (1991-2016), and that wasn't exactly a paradise.

 

[HaroLad]

Tough talk brah.

Too bad that's occured in pretty much every country save Somalia for roughly 25 years (1991-2016), and that wasn't exactly a paradise.

If you read on you’ll see I further clarified my position - I had meant intervention associated with socialism.

 

[DaRick]

If you read on you’ll see I further clarified my position - I had meant intervention associated with socialism.

Yeah, but how do you define socialism?

If you're talking socialism as in USSR-style socialism, then yes, I agree that's unworkable over a long period of time.

Is that what you meant?