So, you believe in conspiracy theories, do you? You probably also think you're the Emperor of Pluto

Chief

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Charlie Brooker - what's not to like?


So, you believe in conspiracy theories, do you? You probably also think you're the Emperor of Pluto

* Charlie Brooker
*
o Charlie Brooker
o The Guardian,
o Monday July 14 2008

I've got a theory - an untested, unprovable theory - that the more interesting your life is at any given point, the less lurid and spectacular your dreams will be. Think of it as a balancing procedure carried out by the brain to stop you getting bored to death.

If your waking life is mundane, it'll inject some thrills into your night-time imaginings to maintain a healthy overall fun quotient. So if you work in a cardboard box factory, and your job is to stare at the side of each box as it passes along a conveyor belt, to ensure they're all uniform and boxy enough - and you do this all day, every day, until your mind grows so dissociated and numb you can scarcely tell where the cardboard ends and your body begins - when your daily routine is THAT dull, chances are you'll spend each night dreaming you're the Emperor of Pluto, wrestling a 6ft green jaguar during a meteor storm in the desert just outside Vegas.

All well and good in the world of dreams. But if you continue to believe you're the Emperor of Pluto after you've woken up, and you go into work and start knocking the boxes around with a homemade sceptre while screaming about your birthright, you're in trouble.

I mention this because recently I've found myself bumping into people - intelligent, level-headed people - who are sincerely prepared to entertain the notion that there might be something in some of the less lurid 9/11 conspiracy theories doing the rounds. They mumble about the "controlled demolition" of WTC 7 (oft referred to as "the third tower"), or posit the notion that the Bush administration knew 9/11 was coming and let it happen anyway. I mean, you never know, right? Right? And did I tell you I'm the Emperor of Pluto?

The glaring problem - and it's glaring in 6,000 watt neon, so vivid and intense you can see it from space with your eyes glued shut - is that with any 9/11 conspiracy theory you care to babble can be summed up in one word: paperwork.

Imagine the paperwork. Imagine the level of planning, recruitment, coordination, control, and unbelievable nerve required to pull off a conspiracy of that magnitude. Really picture it in detail. At the very least you're talking about hiring hundreds of civil servants cold-hearted enough to turn a blind eye to the murder of thousands of their fellow countrymen. If you were dealing with faultless, emotionless robots - maybe. But this almighty conspiracy was presumably hatched and executed by fallible humans. And if there's one thing we know about humans, it's that our inherent unreliability will always derail the simplest of schemes.

It's hard enough to successfully operate a video shop with a staff of three, for Christ's sake, let alone slaughter thousands and convince the world someone else was to blame.

That's just one broad objection to all the bullshit theories. But try suggesting it to someone in the midst of a 9/11 fairytale reverie, and they'll pull a face and say, "Yeah, but ... " and start banging on about some easily misinterpreted detail that "makes you think" (when it doesn't) or "contradicts the official story" (when you misinterpret it). Like nutbag creationists, they fixate on thinly spread, cherry-picked nuggets of "evidence" and ignore the thundering mass of data pointing the other way.

And when repeatedly pressed on that one, basic, overall point - that a conspiracy this huge would be impossible to pull off - they huff and whine and claim that unless you've sat through every nanosecond of Loose Change (the conspiracy flick du jour) and personally refuted every one of its carefully spun "findings" before their very eyes, using a spirit level and calculator, you have no right to an opinion on the subject.

Oh yeah? So if my four-year-old nephew tells me there's a magic leprechaun in the garden I have to spend a week meticulously peering underneath each individual blade of grass before I can tell him he's wrong, do I?

Look hard enough, and dementedly enough, and you can find "proof" that Kevin Bacon was responsible for 9/11 - or the 1987 Zeebrugge ferry disaster, come to that. It'd certainly make for a more interesting story, which is precisely why several thousand well-meaning people would go out of their way to believe it. Throughout my twenties I earnestly believed Oliver Stone's account of the JFK assassination. Partly because of the compelling (albeit wildly selective) way the "evidence" was blended with fiction in his 1991 movie - but mainly because I WANTED to believe it. Believing it made me feel important.

Embrace a conspiracy theory and suddenly you're part of a gang sharing privileged information; your sense of power and dignity rises a smidgen and this troublesome world makes more sense, for a time. You've seen through the matrix! At last you're alive! You ARE the Emperor of Pluto after all!

Except - ahem - you're only deluding yourself, your majesty. Because to believe the "system" is trying to control you is to believe it considers you worth controlling in the first place. The reality - that "the man" is scarcely competent enough to control his own bowels, and doesn't give a toss about you anyway - is depressing and emasculating; just another day in the cardboard box factory. And that's no place for an imaginary emperor, now, is it?
 

Bretski

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Re: So, you believe in conspiracy theories, do you? You probably also think you're the Emperor of Pl

Good one. Yeah I agree. But I'll do my thing and now present an alternate argument.

If you look hard enough, and if you want to believe that there have never been any conspiracies, you'll find it.

Again, I'm just posting the alternate argument.
 

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FIGJAM

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Re: So, you believe in conspiracy theories, do you? You probably also think you're the Emperor of Pl

If you look hard enough, and if you want to believe that there have never been any conspiracies, you'll find it.
That is true.

You have to analyse things on a case by case basis, and be sharp enough to realise that there will be people who will put together highly plausible and coherent arguments that will support even the most riddiculous notions.

I am ardently against 9/11 conspiracies due to the evidence, and the "fake moon landing" is as easily debunked. Abu Bakar Bashir even laughably suggests that the CIA did the Kuta bombing with a "micro-nuclear bomb".

That's not to say events aren't worth questioning, and there aren't events that have occurred that would go violently against media concensus.

Whilst there is a syndrome associated with those who blindly accept all conspiracy theories (similar to some schizophrenic behaviours), it is stupid to suggest all people with an opinion should be tarred with the same brush.

For mine, the argument in the article is disrespectfully immature. "Believe this world view and you believe you are an Emporer of Pluto / magic leprachauns / Kevin Bacon did it". It's the argument of the idiot. And I share his view on 9/11!
 

Niximus

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Re: So, you believe in conspiracy theories, do you? You probably also think you're the Emperor of Pl

I am ardently against 9/11 conspiracies due to the evidence, and the "fake moon landing" is as easily debunked. Abu Bakar Bashir even laughably suggests that the CIA did the Kuta bombing with a "micro-nuclear bomb".
One thing I find amusing is that the people who will insist that the moon landings were faked are often the same people who will claim that NASA is covering up UFO sightings by Apollo astronauts.

Cant have both.

Also the people who like to call George Bush stupid also often credit him with being possibly the greatest evil genius in history.
 

Daytripper

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Re: So, you believe in conspiracy theories, do you? You probably also think you're the Emperor of Pl

That article makes far too much sense, Chief. Obviously the author is involved in the cover up as well and has written this as another smokescreen. :rolleyes:

The few conspiracy theorists I've had dealings with are generally nut jobs or so inherently stupid that they latch themselves on to any theory so that they can 'appear' smarter than everyone else.
 

Ruanaidh

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Re: So, you believe in conspiracy theories, do you? You probably also think you're the Emperor of Pl

I'd tell you about another 'conspiracy theory' regarding the exploits of power-hungry mods who shut down debate regarding Zionism on a purported debating forum and then go on to further marginalise debate on a whole swath of other pressing concerns to the detriment of the afore-mentioned forum. But I wont because it is a 'theory' only.....isn't it?
 

Bretski

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Re: So, you believe in conspiracy theories, do you? You probably also think you're the Emperor of Pl

On the 9/11 conspiracy. I watched the documentory and it seemed (knowing little information at the time) that there was no way it could have been a terrorist attack and that ALL of the evidence pointed to the government. But shows like this do exactly what the first post stated, only scrutanise one half of the story, and logically thinking it WAS a terrorist attack. There are still things from that documentory that can't be yet explained, but that doesnt me they cannot be explained, just means there is more to discover yet. Its a tasty one the 9/11 one.
 

fairdinkum

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Re: So, you believe in conspiracy theories, do you? You probably also think you're the Emperor of Pl

It's a bit like those people who still believe that the Americans had fore-knowledge of the Pearl Harbour attack and 'let it happen' so they could enter the war.
 

Corpuscles

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Re: So, you believe in conspiracy theories, do you? You probably also think you're the Emperor of Pl

Pffft... badly researched wriiten by an a*** licker who is naive!

Capitalism took over Pluto 3 years ago... no such thing as emperor anymore... I am now called "el horney reptillian presidentee"!


See he imagines in his self delusion that somehow his job is important sophisticated interesting!!!!

This gives him comfort that he can fit in and blend into the respectable therefore he needs to feel safe that all is rosy.... bet he has a little stars and stripes flag that he salutes and strokes every day ( read printed on his jocks errr fat arse bloomers)

But thats the best he can come up with?.... If I made the same sort of dribble up and put it on BF mainboard as a thread about Richmond or Wallace instead of CT'ists... it would be immediately shunted to Bay 13!

Not one fact! spurious conjecture poor logic and subjective opinion!


We have done this one to death many times..... but if it makes you darlings feel safe... then OK

Government never ever lies!!!
There is no big corporate corruption or influence!!
International affairs... is an excuse for cocktail parties!!!
Wars are perpetrated coz those are za baddies and we is da goodies!!!


Oh and it would be toooooo hard for someone to have planned it but very easy for 19 yet to be clearly identified, looney terrorists!!!!!


O thus be it ever when free-men shall stand
Between their lov'd home and the war's desolation;
Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the heav'n-rescued land
Praise the Pow'r that hath made and preserv'd us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: “In God is our trust!”
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!



Chiefy, good troll effort!.... keep at it you'll learn how eventually:thumbsu::D
 

patsmith

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Re: So, you believe in conspiracy theories, do you? You probably also think you're the Emperor of Pl

Pffft... badly researched wriiten by an a*** licker who is naive!

Capitalism took over Pluto 3 years ago... no such thing as emperor anymore... I am now called "el horney reptillian presidentee"!


See he imagines in his self delusion that somehow his job is important sophisticated interesting!!!!

This gives him comfort that he can fit in and blend into the respectable therefore he needs to feel safe that all is rosy.... bet he has a little stars and stripes flag that he salutes and strokes every day ( read printed on his jocks errr fat arse bloomers)

But thats the best he can come up with?.... If I made the same sort of dribble up and put it on BF mainboard as a thread about Richmond or Wallace instead of CT'ists... it would be immediately shunted to Bay 13!

Not one fact! spurious conjecture poor logic and subjective opinion!


We have done this one to death many times..... but if it makes you darlings feel safe... then OK

Government never ever lies!!!
There is no big corporate corruption or influence!!
International affairs... is an excuse for cocktail parties!!!
Wars are perpetrated coz those are za baddies and we is da goodies!!!


Oh and it would be toooooo hard for someone to have planned it but very easy for 19 yet to be clearly identified, looney terrorists!!!!!


O thus be it ever when free-men shall stand
Between their lov'd home and the war's desolation;
Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the heav'n-rescued land
Praise the Pow'r that hath made and preserv'd us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: “In God is our trust!”
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!



Chiefy, good troll effort!.... keep at it you'll learn how eventually:thumbsu::D
Convincing argument. You don't seem crazy at all.
 

Mr Q

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Re: So, you believe in conspiracy theories, do you? You probably also think you're the Emperor of Pl

I'm not the Emperor of Pluto?
 

Richo83

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Re: So, you believe in conspiracy theories, do you? You probably also think you're the Emperor of Pl

I'd tell you about another 'conspiracy theory' regarding the exploits of power-hungry mods who shut down debate regarding Zionism on a purported debating forum and then go on to further marginalise debate on a whole swath of other pressing concerns to the detriment of the afore-mentioned forum. But I wont because it is a 'theory' only.....isn't it?
Run along child, the grownups are talking.

Corpsucles, there's hyperbole, and then there's hyperbole. The OP is not saying that we should think that everything is fine and peachy, but that thinking that theres a massive 911 conspiracy run by the FBI and CIA, or that the moon landings never happened shouldn't be accepted. I know it sounds cool and interesting to be one of those people who "knows" that the government is out to get you, or that there's aliens in the skies, but in the end, most of it, is BS.
 

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Richo83

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Re: So, you believe in conspiracy theories, do you? You probably also think you're the Emperor of Pl

One thing I find amusing is that the people who will insist that the moon landings were faked are often the same people who will claim that NASA is covering up UFO sightings by Apollo astronauts.

Cant have both.

Also the people who like to call George Bush stupid also often credit him with being possibly the greatest evil genius in history.
It's not him, but it's administration who is credited with that. I'll take that comment because I do dislike the Bush admin and say that none of us is saying that Bush or his admin is the worst in history, but that they have some questions to answer. Like Katrina. And Iraq in it's early years. I think that's pretty fair. I mean Clinton got questions about his leadership.
 

fairdinkum

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Re: So, you believe in conspiracy theories, do you? You probably also think you're the Emperor of Pl

Another thing - I notice that the guy who wrote the text quoted in the OP didn't actually provide anything to refute the WTC 7 claims.

Since I want to be able to say that I 'know' that governments would never ever do anything wrong by us, can somebody please point me in the direction of a scientific journal (or other credible source) which has explained why WTC 7 collapsed? I just want some evidence to confirm my belief that the govs of this world would never hurt their citizens, and that WTC 7 happened as a direct result of the planes hitting the other two buildings.

Last I heard, the National Institute of Standards and Technology didn't actually include WTC 7 in their report.
 

bit_pattern

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Re: So, you believe in conspiracy theories, do you? You probably also think you're the Emperor of Pl

It's a bit like those people who still believe that the Americans had fore-knowledge of the Pearl Harbour attack and 'let it happen' so they could enter the war.
I wonder why on earth they would think that???

 

captain ebert

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Re: So, you believe in conspiracy theories, do you? You probably also think you're the Emperor of Pl

I know it sounds cool and interesting to be one of those people who "knows" that the government is out to get you, or that there's aliens in the skies, but in the end, most of it, is BS.
well, the government out to get you part is BS. with regard to the other, do some research :thumbsu:
 

Daytripper

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Re: So, you believe in conspiracy theories, do you? You probably also think you're the Emperor of Pl

Since I want to be able to say that I 'know' that governments would never ever do anything wrong by us, can somebody please point me in the direction of a scientific journal (or other credible source) which has explained why WTC 7 collapsed? I just want some evidence to confirm my belief that the govs of this world would never hurt their citizens, and that WTC 7 happened as a direct result of the planes hitting the other two buildings.

Last I heard, the National Institute of Standards and Technology didn't actually include WTC 7 in their report.
Yes, you're right. What happened was that after the two planes hit the other buildings, the US government run by that evil genius Bush decided that wasn't enough to shock everyday US citizens. I mean, two buildings collapsing is so ho-hum. But 3 buildings collapsing !!! Now there's a way to generate panic and anger.

So whilst trying to evacuate citizens and mobilising all the different areas needed as part of the main rescue, the eveil Govt also found time to get 20 or so demolition experts who just happened to have all their explosives close to hand. They then snuck into the building (without anyone noticing mind you), wired it up, snuck out (again without anyone noticing) and then blew it up. None of these people have ever been heard of since so either the evil US govt run by that monster Bush had them all assasinated or they have miraculously not managed to say a word to anyone for all these years.

It all just makes perfect sense.

Alternatively, the building may just have collapsed as a result of rubble falling on top of it and fires from the upper stories. But that just sounds too far fetched to be true. :rolleyes:
 

Ruanaidh

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Re: So, you believe in conspiracy theories, do you? You probably also think you're the Emperor of Pl

Run along child, the grownups are talking.

.
At first I wondered where that insult and you came from as you aren't a poster of any significance. Then I realised that I must have 'carved' you up on another thread, so I looked back and found this comment I made to you in response to one of your infantile slurs:

"You lost your argument right there. With that ignorant and childish remark".

Now I can say that you are not only forgettable but also unoriginal.:rolleyes:
 

Ruanaidh

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Re: So, you believe in conspiracy theories, do you? You probably also think you're the Emperor of Pl

One thing I find amusing is that the people who will insist that the moon landings were faked are often the same people who will claim that NASA is covering up UFO sightings by Apollo astronauts.

Cant have both.

Also the people who like to call George Bush stupid also often credit him with being possibly the greatest evil genius in history.
You have it wrong there Nick. No-one is saying that Astronauts have not experienced 'Near Earth' orbits but some do refute the Moon landings, therefore they can have 'both'.

As for Bush all he has to do for the Cabal behind him to complete their work is to either shut up and/or play the fool.
 

Corpuscles

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Re: So, you believe in conspiracy theories, do you? You probably also think you're the Emperor of Pl

Run along child, the grownups are talking.

Corpsucles, there's hyperbole, and then there's hyperbole. The OP is not saying that we should think that everything is fine and peachy, but that thinking that theres a massive 911 conspiracy run by the FBI and CIA, or that the moon landings never happened shouldn't be accepted. I know it sounds cool and interesting to be one of those people who "knows" that the government is out to get you, or that there's aliens in the skies, but in the end, most of it, is BS.
Yeah

Firstly I apologise to Chief:)... shouldn't post especially here, when drinking!

I feel it is crazy to lump all topics moon, 911, JFK etc etc into one pile!

The writer is doing that!

I realise most of it is BS!

But any detailed look/research at CIA secret meddling in international affairs will indicate that massive secret covert manipulation occurs!

USD $2.3 trillion unaccounted for "black hole" missing defence expenditure was disclosed by Rummy on 10th Sept 2001! Yes the day before!!!

The trail of discovery went up in flames, and no one has since investigated or probed it any further since!!!!

That is conspiring!!! not theory ...FACT!!!

Any research as to the propaganda used in WWII by both sides to manipulate public will clearly show what Governments are capable of and have been doing since early civilization!
 

Niximus

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Re: So, you believe in conspiracy theories, do you? You probably also think you're the Emperor of Pl

You have it wrong there Nick. No-one is saying that Astronauts have not experienced 'Near Earth' orbits but some do refute the Moon landings, therefore they can have 'both'.

As for Bush all he has to do for the Cabal behind him to complete their work is to either shut up and/or play the fool.
I've had a few people try and tell me the moon landing were faked in one conversation and then later tell me that they found secret alien bases on the moon.
 

bit_pattern

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Re: So, you believe in conspiracy theories, do you? You probably also think you're the Emperor of Pl

Yes, you're right. What happened was that after the two planes hit the other buildings, the US government run by that evil genius Bush decided that wasn't enough to shock everyday US citizens. I mean, two buildings collapsing is so ho-hum. But 3 buildings collapsing !!! Now there's a way to generate panic and anger.
You don´t think there may have been some other reason for wanting Building 7 to collapse? I mean, I´m not about to get into a raging debate over 9/11, I´m sure it´s been done to death on this board already. I´m just saying that your reasons for dismissing such an idea are somewhat flimsy...

At the time of the September 11, 2001 attacks, Salomon Smith Barney was by far the largest tenant in 7 World Trade Center, occupying 1,202,900 sq ft (111,750 m²) (64 percent of the building) which included floors 28–45.[25][6] Other major tenants included ITT Hartford Insurance Group (122,590 sq ft/11,400 m²), American Express Bank International (106,117 sq ft/9,900 m²), Standard Chartered Bank (111,398 sq ft/10,350 m²), and the Securities and Exchange Commission (106,117 sq ft/9,850 m²).[25] Smaller tenants included the Internal Revenue Service Regional Council (90,430 sq ft/8,400 m²) and the United States Secret Service (85,343 sq ft/7,900 m²).[25] The smallest tenants included the New York City Office of Emergency Management, National Association of Insurance Commissioners, Federal Home Loan Bank, First State Management Group Inc., Provident Financial Management, and the Immigration and Naturalization Service.[25] The Department of Defense (DOD) and Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) shared the 25th floor with the IRS.[6] Floors 46–47 were mechanical floors, as were the bottom six floors and part of the seventh floor.[6][26]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_World_Trade_Center#Tenants
 

FIGJAM

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Re: So, you believe in conspiracy theories, do you? You probably also think you're the Emperor of Pl

USD $2.3 trillion unaccounted for "black hole" missing defence expenditure was disclosed by Rummy on 10th Sept 2001! Yes the day before!!!

The trail of discovery went up in flames, and no one has since investigated or probed it any further since!!!!

That is conspiring!!! not theory ...FACT!!!
Errrr.....then why wouldn't Rumsfeld have just kept his mouth shut?? :confused:

In 9/11 CTs, the government are as slick as The Batman...except for when it suits the argument, then they are dopey public servants again!
 

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