Coach So you want Voss gone? Who will replace him and why would they want to coach Carlton?

[Arr0w]

Austin is also dealing with a bit of an unbalanced list that SOS left

Sorry what? 5 years at the helm, turned over an entire list of players

Name me 1 mid/forward with speed and footskills he has recruited?

But I believe Voss has become a big stumbling block also

Was Voss around for the 1st 2 years of Austin's tenure?

Doesnt train fundamentals/drills to play tge modern faster game style

How would you know? But, do you think it might be difficult when we lack players with speed

As a result we’ve been subjecting our players to brutal contest after contest type game style that has stifled our player availability

More clickbait, contested footy is still number 1 priority for sides, they just have more players with speed and footskills to hurt you on the outside

But, again, we are talking about list management, recruitment, not coaching

Shall we blame coaching for our players not being able to kick like Amon, not run quicker than Zac Bailey?

 

[bigm386]

Maybe think of it this way, what was Austin's recruiting record under Teague?

Seriously, everyone can see the glaring holes on our list, you really think a coach is going to ask for one placed players that can't kick and have no mongrel?

I'm not sure it's that black and white.

Is our development good?
Often when at games you see players have no options down field to kick to is system part of it?
Is fatigue part of it? I mean everyone is fatigued to a point in football but our system is so heavily focused on contested ball.

I'm not sure it's as simple as Austin is a spud. But it may be.

 

[Accidental genius]

Sorry what? 5 years at the helm, turned over an entire list of players

Name me 1 mid/forward with speed and footskills he has recruited?

Was Voss around for the 1st 2 years of Austin's tenure?


How would you know? But, do you think it might be difficult when we lack players with speed


More clickbait, contested footy is still number 1 priority for sides, they just have more players with speed and footskills to hurt you on the outside

But, again, we are talking about list management, recruitment, not coaching

Shall we blame coaching for our players not being able to kick like Amon, not run quicker than Zac Bailey?

We don’t need to teach players how to kick handball etc…they already know that

Our players aren’t well drilled in scenarios …spreading from a stoppage, transition f50 entries etc are all terrible. …hence when oppo apply pressure our players become vulnerable to erroneous disposals.

There seems to be no understanding of what players expect their team mates to do in the next bit of play.

 

[GenYBlue]

I think it's less about blaming Austin and more about his team. Their inability to draft forwards and midfielders was there when Silvagni was head.

Same goes with Voss. He's a poor player judge, his list cutting and team selection are rubbish, he's too anti pace pro big contested bodied.

But what if the people working under Voss were good and what if they people working under Austin were good?

The fact we did a big club review and hired a new coaching group and have made no moves to improve our recruiting and coaching team is just so very Carlton. This is the problem with Carlton. We started something and failed to evolve.

We are coach killers, we are keeping our reputation. Good clubs set people up for success and poor clubs like us set them up to fail.

We need to get people in who can recruit players in all positions and a coaching group who can make judgements on players and are tactically strong.

You recruit every clubs rubbish (players and football department) and do nothing about it. this is where you end up.

Agresta has been involved as long as Lloyd, with both arriving in 2018
Time to go I think.

 

[Arr0w]

Is our development good?

Unfortunately, people align it with win/loss

Often when at games you see players have no options down field to kick to is system part of it?

Could be many things, coaching, player willingness to work, etc

Is fatigue part of it? I mean everyone is fatigued to a point in football but our system is so heavily focused on contested ball.

Imagine Zac Bailey peels from a contest, tell me which of our mids has the leg speed to bridge the gap

I'm not sure it's as simple as Austin is a spud. But it may be.

Austins list management and recruitment has been poor

We don’t need to teach players how to kick handball etc…they already know that

Correct, so if we are slower, or don't have the elite kicks to hit tough targets, what next

Our players aren’t well drilled in scenarios …spreading from a stoppage, transition f50 entries etc are all terrible. …hence when oppo apply pressure our players become vulnerable to erroneous disposals.

There seems to be no understanding of what players expect their team mates to do in the next bit of play.

You keep introducing coaching to list management discussions

Simple questions, In 5 years of Austin's tenure

Which xfactor small forward with speed, has been recruited

Which mid with speed and footskills has been recruited

Which mid/forward with speed and footskills has been recruited

 

[Accidental genius]

Unfortunately, people align it with win/loss


Could be many things, coaching, player willingness to work, etc


Imagine Zac Bailey peels from a contest, tell me which of our mids has the leg speed to bridge the gap


Austins list management and recruitment has been poor


Correct, so if we are slower, or don't have the elite kicks to hit tough targets, what next


You keep introducing coaching to list management discussions

Simple questions, In 5 years of Austin's tenure

Which xfactor small forward with speed, has been recruited

Which mid with speed and footskills has been recruited

Which mid/forward with speed and footskills has been recruited

This is a Voss coaching thread.

40 odd players on our list can’t all be duds.

Introduce/adapt a better game plan and watch what happens.

Yes some players may need to be shipped out and others brought in but there is no way to judge players with the crap game style we are trying to play.

 

[gbatman]

Agresta has been involved as long as Lloyd, with both arriving in 2018
Time to go I think.

Yep, the top clubs don't just let people go.

 

[WyntersGame_]

Simple questions, In 5 years of Austin's tenure

Which xfactor small forward with speed, has been recruited

Which mid with speed and footskills has been recruited

Which mid/forward with speed and footskills has been recruited

While I'm not a fan of Austin and believe he should be moved on, I still think we'd be having the same discussion about Voss even if we had an alternative to Austin.

Speed and the "X-factor" are certainly qualities we lack, but given how our team is structured and the solitary game style/plan we follow, I suspect that those qualities would be stifled by our approach to play. This isn't the first time we've seen that happen.

Yes, we have depth issues, but we're also one of the most conservative teams in terms of playing style. For me, this is the reason we're being dominated after halftime in every game this season.

Opposition coaches love facing us because they know that once halftime arrives, they can make adjustments, and we’ll remain rigid and unlikely to change.

Whether it's stubbornness by Voss or lack of coaching ideas on his behalf, it should not be this easy to beat us.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

You keep introducing coaching to list management discussions

Simple questions, In 5 years of Austin's tenure

I'll have a go at these:

Which xfactor small forward with speed, has been recruited

None.

Although, he did use his first pick on what many considered the best small forward available in the draft both in 2020 (Durdin) and 2021 (Motlop)

What were his missed opportunities in your opinion?

Which mid with speed and footskills has been recruited

Tried to make Williams one... failed.

Jagga - yet to debut but we know his attributes.

Cerra has decent kicking skills, lacks speed but I wouldn't consider him slow.

What were his missed opportunities in your opinion?

Which mid/forward with speed and footskills has been recruited

None. Although, we did have Jack Martin and Cunners on the list, both with good speed and kicking skills - just perennially injured... was it his decision or Voss' to hang onto them for so long?

Elijah has good kicking skills too.

What were his missed opportunities in your opinion?

 

[blue healer]

Maybe think of it this way, what was Austin's recruiting record under Teague?

Seriously, everyone can see the glaring holes on our list, you really think a coach is going to ask for one placed players that can't kick and have no mongrel?

pretty sure Austins only draft when Teague was coaching was 2020 when he bought in Saad, Williams, Fogarty and Durdin, so probably not that bad,

 

[TheBlueCampaigner]

Can a mod update the poll on this thread? I think The Toad is MIA.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

Can a mod update the poll on this thread? I think The Toad is MIA.

Aphrodite is already on the case.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Can a mod update the poll on this thread? I think The Toad is MIA.

Interesting to see who was on the rader in June 2023

 

[JustaBattler]

This is a Voss coaching thread.

40 odd players on our list can’t all be duds.

Introduce/adapt a better game plan and watch what happens.

Yes some players may need to be shipped out and others brought in but there is no way to judge players with the crap game style we are trying to play.

I'd be interested in you (and anyone else) to pick your team based on Carlton's list that plays your preferred game style (whatever that will be) if you want a football conversation and want to ignore the fact that Carlton obviously has list problems as well as ignoring Weitering's summary view of the playing group- "soft and weak".

lets have an honest chat about what Voss at his disposal and then talk about why ther coudl be a different game plan and who would execute this modern football high run high kicking skill game plan that seems to be escaping Voss's attention.


My view based on same criteria is that

1. Carlton has an ok to good defensive back six which lacks connected rebound run which is

kicking to

2. a midfield which has strong contested players and flaky outside players with low kicking skills

kicking to

3. a forward line that lack experience, cohesion and even consistent personnel

I'm nto surprised under these circumstances that a smart coach will play a territory game founded on strong team based defense and try and kick to Charlie/Harry who are weapons as much as possible- substituting lack of class by force of numbers.

If anyone wishes to challenge this game style based on rel existing and selectable players available on the Carlton list right now I would be interested ....

My team AND structure would be:

Haynes Jack Silvagni McGovern

Boyd Weitering Saad

Walsh Cripps Acres

TDK Hewett Cerra

Williams Harry E Hollands

White Charlie Fogarty


IC: Lord O Hollands Fogarty Carroll
Sub: Docherty / Lemmey / Moir : I dont care

the players in bold I have low confidence in and dont see a better replacement that is fit and ready.

I look forward to Cincotta Fantasia Cottrell being available again. Cincotta I would have in the team every week.

 

[Accidental genius]

I'd be interested in you (and anyone else) to pick your team based on Carlton's list that plays your preferred game style (whatever that will be) if you want a football conversation and want to ignore the fact that Carlton obviously has list problems as well as ignoring Weitering's summary view of the playing group- "soft and weak".

lets have an honest chat about what Voss at his disposal and then talk about why ther coudl be a different game plan and who would execute this modern football high run high kicking skill game plan that seems to be escaping Voss's attention.


My view based on same criteria is that

1. Carlton has an ok to good defensive back six which lacks connected rebound run which is

kicking to

2. a midfield which has strong contested players and flaky outside players with low kicking skills

kicking to

3. a forward line that lack experience, cohesion and even consistent personnel

I'm nto surprised under these circumstances that a smart coach will play a territory game founded on strong team based defense and try and kick to Charlie/Harry who are weapons as much as possible- substituting lack of class by force of numbers.

If anyone wishes to challenge this game style based on rel existing and selectable players available on the Carlton list right now I would be interested ....

My team AND structure would be:

Haynes Jack Silvagni McGovern

Boyd Weitering Saad

Walsh Cripps Acres

TDK Hewett Cerra

Williams Harry E Hollands

White Charlie Fogarty


IC: Lord O Hollands Fogarty Carroll
Sub: Docherty / Lemmey / Moir : I dont care

the players in bold I have low confidence in and dont see a better replacement that is fit and ready.

I look forward to Cincotta Fantasia Cottrell being available again. Cincotta I would have in the team every week.

This is a good idea but tge issue is none of us can know for certain who will be good/poor if we played a different game style - a game style that involves good ball movement (mix of handballs, running in packs and in good formation, shortish kicks to targets (unless player ahead in clear space).

Once we approach f50 arc, depending on the situation you might continue running the ball closer to goals or you kick it to a forward on a lead.

There is nothing magical about this type of game style …

Some of our goals against the filth were like this - and it looked so easy and our players were able to pull it off. I do not see how any Alf listed player cannot play this type of game style.

Unfortunately Our players for too long have gotten used to trying to win a contest and if/when they do they then kick it ahead …typically to another contested situation. It’s been our go to style. Not much thought goes into our next disposal.

Of course, there is a place for winning contests as well but if you train/drill scenarios where you try and maintain possession with good ball movement you reduce tge number of times tge ball is in dispute (less contests). It becomes a more free flowing type game and more enjoyable to watch and also to play.

The issues with our game style has been discussed many many times by media experts and on here.

My observations are that this year we have been trying to play a bit more free flowing. (not counting r1 against tiggies)

I don’t see our list being a major impediment to playing the free flowing type game but it’s clear we need to practice it more.

The issue I have with Voss is he’s still too focussed on winning the contest at the coal face and contest after contest …

when he should be thinking of ways to reduce the number of contests in the first place.

We keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result.

 

[jj1978]

While I'm not a fan of Austin and believe he should be moved on, I still think we'd be having the same discussion about Voss even if we had an alternative to Austin.

Speed and the "X-factor" are certainly qualities we lack, but given how our team is structured and the solitary game style/plan we follow, I suspect that those qualities would be stifled by our approach to play. This isn't the first time we've seen that happen.

Yes, we have depth issues, but we're also one of the most conservative teams in terms of playing style. For me, this is the reason we're being dominated after halftime in every game this season.

Opposition coaches love facing us because they know that once halftime arrives, they can make adjustments, and we’ll remain rigid and unlikely to change.

Whether it's stubbornness by Voss or lack of coaching ideas on his behalf, it should not be this easy to beat us.

It’s got to do with “playing our way”. Our way seems to consist of a plan A only and Voss seems to want to throw the gauntlet at other teams to counter our way, and 11/13 coaches so far have successfully met that challenge.

 

[JustaBattler]

This is a good idea but tge issue is none of us can know for certain who will be good/poor if we played a different game style - a game style that involves good ball movement (mix of handballs, running in packs and in good formation, shortish kicks to targets (unless player ahead in clear space).

Once we approach f50 arc, depending on the situation you might continue running the ball closer to goals or you kick it to a forward on a lead.

There is nothing magical about this type of game style …

Some of our goals against the filth were like this - and it looked so easy and our players were able to pull it off. I do not see how any Alf listed player cannot play this type of game style.

Unfortunately Our players for too long have gotten used to trying to win a contest and if/when they do they then kick it ahead …typically to another contested situation. It’s been our go to style. Not much thought goes into our next disposal.

Of course, there is a place for winning contests as well but if you train/drill scenarios where you try and maintain possession with good ball movement you reduce tge number of times tge ball is in dispute (less contests). It becomes a more free flowing type game and more enjoyable to watch and also to play.

The issues with our game style has been discussed many many times by media experts and on here.

My observations are that this year we have been trying to play a bit more free flowing. (not counting r1 against tiggies)

I don’t see our list being a major impediment to playing the free flowing type game but it’s clear we need to practice it more.

The issue I have with Voss is he’s still too focussed on winning the contest at the coal face and contest after contest …

when he should be thinking of ways to reduce the number of contests in the first place.

We keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result.

Yes there are a lot of variables to consider I guess that is why Clubs appoint teams to do the job - people who are intimately aware of t player capabilities and design a game plan to maximsie strengths and minimise/mitigate weaknesses.

however this forum has a lot of posters criticising the game plan some put that the team should be faster or better at kicking or the coaches release the shackles a lot of generalisations very little specifics...

not to suggest that here isnt roon for improvement IN GAME - that is a different discussion I think our in game tactics show little evidence of an ability to change according to opposition changes - btu is Voss responsible for this?

 

[btdg]

I'd be interested in you (and anyone else) to pick your team based on Carlton's list that plays your preferred game style (whatever that will be) if you want a football conversation and want to ignore the fact that Carlton obviously has list problems as well as ignoring Weitering's summary view of the playing group- "soft and weak".

lets have an honest chat about what Voss at his disposal and then talk about why ther coudl be a different game plan and who would execute this modern football high run high kicking skill game plan that seems to be escaping Voss's attention.


My view based on same criteria is that

1. Carlton has an ok to good defensive back six which lacks connected rebound run which is

kicking to

2. a midfield which has strong contested players and flaky outside players with low kicking skills

kicking to

3. a forward line that lack experience, cohesion and even consistent personnel

I'm nto surprised under these circumstances that a smart coach will play a territory game founded on strong team based defense and try and kick to Charlie/Harry who are weapons as much as possible- substituting lack of class by force of numbers.

If anyone wishes to challenge this game style based on rel existing and selectable players available on the Carlton list right now I would be interested ....

My team AND structure would be:

Haynes Jack Silvagni McGovern

Boyd Weitering Saad

Walsh Cripps Acres

TDK Hewett Cerra

Williams Harry E Hollands

White Charlie Fogarty


IC: Lord O Hollands Fogarty Carroll
Sub: Docherty / Lemmey / Moir : I dont care

the players in bold I have low confidence in and dont see a better replacement that is fit and ready.

I look forward to Cincotta Fantasia Cottrell being available again. Cincotta I would have in the team every week.

Agreed totally. It is a shocker or a list to build a game plan around. The lack of depth hurts as well. We literally have no playable backup to Harry McKay. So Voss designs a game plan, then the drop off is from a Coleman medallist to a converted forward Lewis Young (who most Carlton supporters wanted fired out of a cannon into the sun last time he played). We have issues scoring and somehow the problem is the game plan?

Something I would add is Voss has barely had time to bring 'his guys' into the team.

3 offseasons (not really including his first because he had only been in the job a couple of days). He inherited a capped out list with far too many inside mids, a couple of good tall forwards (albeit one who hadn't,t played for 2.5 years) and some nice pieces around the edges (Sàad, Docherty, TDK). The core of thqt list had never won more than 8 games

Players in: Acres (stopgap wing), E Hollands, O Hollands, Binns, Cowan, Moir, Wilson, Smith, Haynes, O'Farrell and a bunch on Rookie and Mid season draftees. Who are 'his guys'? Delisted fre agents Orazio Fantasia and Francis Evans are about the only two, and Sheesh we were scraping the barrel there

Players out: a whole bunch of inside mids (Setterfield, Dow, Kennedy), some injury prone guys (Martin, Marchbank), and a couple of fringe guys (Stocker and Fisher).

Ross Lyon at St Kilda was given a year to find his feet, then carte blanche to move guys on and bring in his own crew. Macrae at Collingwood had the team clear the decks before his arrival, allowed to move on high profile guys then use cap space to fill some gaps after year 1 (McStay, Hill, Tom Mitchell, Schultz, Perryman out, Grundy, Adams, Ginnivan in, etc) Other strong coaches -Chris Scott, Longmire - have either had years to build their players, or taken over very strong established cultures.

We have given Voss a team that had done nothing, demanded instant success, and asked him to do it with a handcuffed list that has glaring flaws, but without the courage to make the necessary moves to win a flag.

Collingwood moved on Grundy and brought in Hill, McStay and Mitchell and won a flag. We... got Blake Acres and expected that would get the job done (and granted, he did kick the goal that put us into our first prelim in 25 years, but... )

This thread is insane while Voss remains our most successful coach of the 2000s (ie another 3 weeks at least). Given how much of a mistake sacking Ratten was we should probably hold off any rash moves until we hit Teague territory (would have to start 0-13)

 

[JustaBattler]

....

We have given Voss a team that had done nothing, demanded instant success, and asked him to do it with a handcuffed list that has glaring flaws, but without the courage to make the necessary moves to win a flag.

....

100%

 

[DangerousD]

Agreed totally. It is a shocker or a list to build a game plan around. The lack of depth hurts as well. We literally have no playable backup to Harry McKay. So Voss designs a game plan, then the drop off is from a Coleman medallist to a converted forward Lewis Young (who most Carlton supporters wanted fired out of a cannon into the sun last time he played). We have issues scoring and somehow the problem is the game plan?

Something I would add is Voss has barely had time to bring 'his guys' into the team.

3 offseasons (not really including his first because he had only been in the job a couple of days). He inherited a capped out list with far too many inside mids, a couple of good tall forwards (albeit one who hadn't,t played for 2.5 years) and some nice pieces around the edges (Sàad, Docherty, TDK). The core of thqt list had never won more than 8 games

Players in: Acres (stopgap wing), E Hollands, O Hollands, Binns, Cowan, Moir, Wilson, Smith, Haynes, O'Farrell and a bunch on Rookie and Mid season draftees. Who are 'his guys'? Delisted fre agents Orazio Fantasia and Francis Evans are about the only two, and Sheesh we were scraping the barrel there

Players out: a whole bunch of inside mids (Setterfield, Dow, Kennedy), some injury prone guys (Martin, Marchbank), and a couple of fringe guys (Stocker and Fisher).

Ross Lyon at St Kilda was given a year to find his feet, then carte blanche to move guys on and bring in his own crew. Macrae at Collingwood had the team clear the decks before his arrival, allowed to move on high profile guys then use cap space to fill some gaps after year 1 (McStay, Hill, Tom Mitchell, Schultz, Perryman out, Grundy, Adams, Ginnivan in, etc) Other strong coaches -Chris Scott, Longmire - have either had years to build their players, or taken over very strong established cultures.

We have given Voss a team that had done nothing, demanded instant success, and asked him to do it with a handcuffed list that has glaring flaws, but without the courage to make the necessary moves to win a flag.

Collingwood moved on Grundy and brought in Hill, McStay and Mitchell and won a flag. We... got Blake Acres and expected that would get the job done (and granted, he did kick the goal that put us into our first prelim in 25 years, but... )

This thread is insane while Voss remains our most successful coach of the 2000s (ie another 3 weeks at least). Given how much of a mistake sacking Ratten was we should probably hold off any rash moves until we hit Teague territory (would have to start 0-13)

I enjoy reading opposing views and ones like this that defend Voss, it raises good points imo and assuming this is true, then this points the finger at the LM team and the football department for having terrible recruiting strategies, being too conservative with cutting players, too generous with years on contracts and $$$$ and a football department that from the outside has a weak group of assistant coaches.

I dont think Voss is a good coach but i think the club has messed up with the entire coaching group and LM team which has made things a lot harder.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

I enjoy reading opposing views and ones like this that defend Voss, it raises good points imo and assuming this is true, then this points the finger at the LM team and the football department for having terrible recruiting strategies, being too conservative with cutting players, too generous with years on contracts and $$$$ and a football department that from the outside has a weak group of assistant coaches.

I dont think Voss is a good coach but i think the club has messed up with the entire coaching group and LM team which has made things a lot harder.

That seems to be the consensus view, yet the conundrum is that there have been extended periods of success through Voss's tenure.

 

[Arr0w]

That seems to be the consensus view, yet the conundrum is that there have been extended periods of success through Voss's tenure.

We certainly have lacked consistency under Voss.

We have had periods where our best has proven good enough against any side, our worst resulting in unexceptionable losses

IMHO, the lack of continuity and or the subsequent thin depth has impacted that consistency

Although, some of our losses or poor formline is inexcusable

 

[JustOneTime]

I think a lot comes down to impact of injuries vs transition plan; this then leads to your view on Voss.

When his best 8/9 A graders are fit and firing Carlton do well. Can Voss claim that form? When 3-4 of his A grade players are injured or out of form, the team is woeful. On the surface it is nothing more than that.

Deeper though, it is. Is he simply a coach that relies on superstars and has nothing when they don't win it for him, or is he just unlucky due to those injuries biting deep at Carlton.

I tend to look at how we play and it is god awful. Bomb it long down the wing for a heavy 15-20 man stoppage, bomb it higher into the forward line for another stoppage or freak mark. I think it leads to injuries/soreness. Occasionally, under dire need, the players run and overlap, but it requires them to hit the fight vs flight bottom line.

There is no easy goals, there is no coast to coast goals. There is really no quick turnover goals. All aspects of a good transition plan. People cite the players (but i dont buy that (i buy a little bit of it) because the same players went on a huge run to then beat Melbourne. They went on a run to hit second by round 14/15. The playing list is capable.

I think Vossy and the assistant coaches are trying all sorts of stuff to increase corridor, overlap run but we can categorically say it doesnt show up on match day.

Discounting some of the blame on Voss is this...
If you do what I have done for professional betting, identify the key traits of the roles (def/mid/fwds) then go through each AFL team and look at the results it becomes so clear that we have so many examples of players who are good players, just not in the roles/role traits you'd expect from them. Geelong was a fantastic exercise in that so many of their players had the right traits for the right roles and Carlton was the opposite. It explains so much while they continue to be a threat. It explains why we are lost.

Carlton don't have a clue why JSoS is a success in the backline, or why E Hollands and Motlop will be fails in our midfield. They just don't know which basically kills us. Other teams know through intellectual capacity somewhere.

 

[Psychochook]

We don’t need to teach players how to kick handball etc…they already know that

Our players aren’t well drilled in scenarios …spreading from a stoppage, transition f50 entries etc are all terrible. …hence when oppo apply pressure our players become vulnerable to erroneous disposals.

There seems to be no understanding of what players expect their team mates to do in the next bit of play.

Nah.

I see your point, agree somewhat. Although, how do we know if players are well drilled or not and on what? Yes, pressure can cause anyone to make errors.

But our skills are top shelf shizen.


Picture this:

Perfect plan, everyone is in position, we have the ball, the momentum, the advantage.....

...and we kick the ball high and loopy.

It hangs in the air for so long that, despite pinpoint accuracy, every defender within 20m has a chance to assess the ball trajectory, calculate their current pace(allowing for closing speed) into the time taken for the ball to reach the target, send a raven to their line coach, who sends a raven to the head coach, who waits for the globe on his morse code flashlight to warm up before flash, flash...flaaash, flash, flashing the instruction back to the hard of hearing runner, who screams back to the player that he has plenty of time to intercept.

But...they warn him he'll be third in line, so they suggest it would be better to add extra numbers for the crumb, rebound handball chain, and maybe have a cheeky crack at a running goal.

Take the ridiculousness out of all that and it's a scenario we have seen multiple times this year and last.

Lace out, grass-cutting is not our jam.
Needs to be.
#skillwork

 

[btdg]

I enjoy reading opposing views and ones like this that defend Voss, it raises good points imo and assuming this is true, then this points the finger at the LM team and the football department for having terrible recruiting strategies, being too conservative with cutting players, too generous with years on contracts and $$$$ and a football department that from the outside has a weak group of assistant coaches.

I dont think Voss is a good coach but i think the club has messed up with the entire coaching group and LM team which has made things a lot harder.

Yeah, but I think bigger than the mechanics of coaching and recruiting and everything for us is culture, and in particular a lack of patience.

A big reason the list is so thin is because when we were rebuilding we lost patience. It was taking longer than expected so we spent our cap room (and draft picks)on Martin, McGovern, then even more on Williams and Saad and Cerra. Only Saad has managed an AA. Now we pay the price and Voss has no opportunity to bring in players he wants and instead has to shed all his depth (or sacrifice a McKay or someone... And this season shows how bad we are without him because we have literally no backup.)

Coaching wise, we sacked Bolton mid year because the wins weren't coming fast enough. In hindsight, check out how young that list was... Curnow/McKay/Weitering were 22, Walsh was a rookie... We then won a few games and appointed Teague with no process because he gave us good feels. No, he put the veterans back in the center square and had an easier fixture, but anyway. We then gave Teague less than two pandemic affected years before the decision to sack him - only one match with both McKay and Curnow total, and two years of not being able to train.

Now we have Voss. We all panicked in 2023 when we weren't immediately successful, then got overexcited because a 13 win team fluked a prelim final and started well then next year and declared ourselves eternal contenders. Then it swung back around and we are back in in the doldrums again...

I also don't think Voss is great coach. He is ok -probably average (which means half the coaches out there are worse). He might have been the only person capable of riding that 2023 storm and motivating the players to turn it around and he may well be capable of doing it again. Game plan isn't his strength (as it isn't for others like Hinckley) and we have handcuffed him with a badly handled list.

All I know is that just for once we should be patient. Let's see what Voss can cook up when McKay and Curnow both play together, at a minimum...