Conspiracy Theory Soaked in Bleach - The Murder of Kurt Cobain

[Exe Gesis]

Call her a junkie/slag/ bitch/murderer all you like.
However its revisionist bulls**t to deny she was far outdoing Kurt in both record sales and concerts before he went mainstream.

Don't know where you're getting your stance from.

Love was a nobody for a long time, and her first album in 1991 garnered only 200k sales.
Meanwhile, Nirvana's debut Bleach in 1989, garnered 2m sales.
And Nevermind was made in 1991, which we all know was a massive seller.

Hole's next album didn't eventuate till 1994, after Cobain's death.

And take note of one of the latter lines in the last image, which states that Courtney Love didn't even hit mass media exposure until 1992, after marrying Cobain.

It's also been stated by many in and around the scene that she was a goldigger, looking for a rock star to latch on to and also that would boost her own career.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Have the powers that be restricted you to 'sad react' GG.exe ?

No, I have a choice. But sadface is the only appropriate reaction, forever and ever and forever more

 

[Exe Gesis]

Bleach (Kurt's debut album) released in 1989 reached 89 in the US top 100 charts

Pretty On The Inside (Love's debut album) released in 1991 (two years AFTER) reached 73 in the US top 100 charts

that's a better indicator than record sales figures above---as those are total TO DATE.

she was a nobody, in bit movie parts, working in strip clubs, started a band in 88, Kurt was already well into Nirvana before then, and had a major record release in 89, and Love was still two years away from having a record released.

basically, she was on the fringes of the indy scene, starting to get around, going to gigs, having gigs with other bands, and Kurt was already well and truly on the rise before they met. She latched onto him when Corgan pushed her goldigging advances away. Her band was a fringe band while Nirvana then exploded with Nevermind. Her band was just a novelty still.

 

[William Wonka]

Bleach (Kurt's debut album) released in 1989 reached 89 in the US top 100 charts

Pretty On The Inside (Love's debut album) released in 1991 (two years AFTER) reached 73 in the US top 100 charts

that's a better indicator than record sales figures above---as those are total TO DATE.

she was a nobody, in bit movie parts, working in strip clubs, started a band in 88, Kurt was already well into Nirvana before then, and had a major record release in 89, and Love was still two years away from having a record released.

basically, she was on the fringes of the indy scene, starting to get around, going to gigs, having gigs with other bands, and Kurt was already well and truly on the rise before they met. She latched onto him when Corgan pushed her goldigging advances away. Her band was a fringe band while Nirvana then exploded with Nevermind. Her band was just a novelty still.

I see you've corrected your mistake from the earlier post.
Bleach has sold 2 million copies but 1990000 of those sales were post Nevermind.
Pre meeting Kurt she was lead singer for Faith no more and a founded Babes in toyland
The Woman has talent.
Not to the level of Cobain of course but she was faaaaaaaaaar from a groupie.

 

[Twoslabs]

Call her a junkie/slag/ bitch/murderer all you like.
However its revisionist bulls**t to deny she was far outdoing Kurt in both record sales and concerts before he went mainstream.

Okay like I said Bleach sold 40,000 copies upon it's initial release.

I fail to see how a band that did not release an album until September 17 1991 could be more successful than a band with 40K plus sales already under its belt.

As to your assertion and I quote "Courtney was touring a number one record before Nevermind dropped" Well funnily enough a simple search shows both Teenage Whore and Nevermind were released on September 24 1991, so no courts wasn't touring a number one record prior to Nevermind.

This ignores the fact that the number one was a UK Indie chart topper and did not scrape mainstream charts anywhere in the world, in fact Hole did not chart anywhere until the Beautiful Son single in 1993 which peaked at 54 in the UK.

Complete music nerd here so feel free to keep playing

 

[Twoslabs]

I see you've corrected your mistake from the earlier post.
Bleach has sold 2 million copies but 1990000 of those sales were post Nevermind.
Pre meeting Kurt she was lead singer for Faith no more and a founded Babes in toyland
The Woman has talent.
Not to the level of Cobain of course but she was faaaaaaaaaar from a groupie.

No 40,000 copies of Bleach were on initial release.

She may have been in Faith No More but nothing was released with her as singer and she was kicked out prior to them achieving success.

Never was in Babes in Toyland, she was in Pagan Babies with Kat Bjelland who later formed Babes in Toyland.

 

[Exe Gesis]

maximum pwnage

 

[William Wonka]

No 40,000 copies of Bleach were on initial release.

She may have been in Faith No More but nothing was released with her as singer and she was kicked out prior to them achieving success.

Never was in Babes in Toyland, she was in Pagan Babies with Kat Bjelland who later formed Babes in Toyland.

She was in Babes in toyland, they are just bitchfighting now.

Check the below date.

 

[Twoslabs]

She was in Babes in toyland, they are just bitchfighting now.

Check the below date.
View attachment 726376

Okay what has that ticket stub got to do with anything? It says "Hole" correct not "Babes in Toyland" all it says is you've been a courts disciple for too many years, and going back to your point about selling out shows ...... well they aren't the headliner are they, Mudhoney were already bigger (Ripped the Old Greek Theatre in Richmond a new one however I digress )

Okay after researching I'll admit that she may have rehearsed but I don't think you can claim her to be either a founding member as Michelle Leon played bass on either side of her very short stint

To claim courts was pivotal is like saying Dennis Leary came up with his own act and didn't steal it off Bill Hicks

 

[Exe Gesis]

massive pwnage

 

[William Wonka]

Okay what has that ticket stub got to do with anything? It says "Hole" correct not "Babes in Toyland" all it says is you've been a courts disciple for too many years, and going back to your point about selling out shows ...... well they aren't the headliner are they, Mudhoney were already bigger (Ripped the Old Greek Theatre in Richmond a new one however I digress )

Okay after researching I'll admit that she may have rehearsed but I don't think you can claim her to be either a founding member as Michelle Leon played bass on either side of her very short stint

To claim courts was pivotal is like saying Dennis Leary came up with his own act and didn't steal it off Bill Hicks

Lets forget Babes in toyland for the moment.

My point was Hole was touring Europe with Mudhoney pre Nevermind.
Ill grant you supporting not headlining but Im not arguing she was a massive star but simply a muscian in her own right achieving moderate success.
If nothing else having been the lead singer for Faith no more (who had by the time she met Kurt had already gone on to massive success) gave her more musical cred than him.

 

[Twoslabs]

Lets forget Babes in toyland for the moment.

My point was Hole was touring Europe with Mudhoney pre Nevermind.
Ill grant you supporting not headlining but Im not arguing she was a massive star but simply a muscian in her own right achieving moderate success.
If nothing else having been the lead singer for Faith no more (who had by the time she met Kurt had already gone on to massive success) gave her more musical cred than him.

Yep 39 days before nevermind and post Bleach which had already sold 40K plus copies. Mudhoney were the main act as at that time grunge was exploding and they were the kings regardless of whatever support bands were on tour with them.

At that stage they were either "Faith no More" or Faith no Man" the name was fluid when she was with them. Christ some of the bands I played in and with achieved mind blowing success in this country "but" as it was none of my work I cannot be attributed any credit

Musical cred oh come on, you initially said she was touring a #1 single which I have proved to be a downright lie, why you keep defending the Nancy of the 90's is mind boggling, pre Kurt she was like a Kardashian, famous for being famous, Remember Crass have had 5 UK indie #1's and the Anti-Nowhere League 3, it means jack .... I'm more than happy to get at least 3 of the league to confirm there's no money, prestige, lasting fame and ultimately means jack s**t.

 

[Exe Gesis]

It's a real shame William Wonka that you can't even admit error publicly I thought you were a real sport, who could give and take.
But Twoslabs has been pwning you for the various things you have stated as fact....and I thank him for stepping in because I am not a music historian to be able to duel.

But like I posted before, Love did not garner major media attention (her name was nothing) until 1992, when she married Kurt. She was a nobody right up until she married Kurt....because he cracked the big time way before her.

 

[HahnPremium]

I cant lay claim to this being absolute fact but strong industry sentiment is that Kurt basically wrote the album "Live through this" which was by far Hole's most commercially successful offering.

 

[William Wonka]

Yep 39 days before nevermind and post Bleach which had already sold 40K plus copies. Mudhoney were the main act as at that time grunge was exploding and they were the kings regardless of whatever support bands were on tour with them.

At that stage they were either "Faith no More" or Faith no Man" the name was fluid when she was with them. Christ some of the bands I played in and with achieved mind blowing success in this country "but" as it was none of my work I cannot be attributed any credit

Musical cred oh come on, you initially said she was touring a #1 single which I have proved to be a downright lie, why you keep defending the Nancy of the 90's is mind boggling, pre Kurt she was like a Kardashian, famous for being famous, Remember Crass have had 5 UK indie #1's and the Anti-Nowhere League 3, it means jack .... I'm more than happy to get at least 3 of the league to confirm there's no money, prestige, lasting fame and ultimately means jack s**t.

Downright lie?
You haven't proven anything friend.
What were Hole playing on their Euro tour? Christmas Carols?

UK indie charts is still a Number 1 single.
She was touring it.

Ive proved both my claims, now lets see you prove yours.

Who were you in that has since achieved 'mind blowing success'?

 

[Twoslabs]

9

Downright lie?
You haven't proven anything friend.
What were Hole playing on their Euro tour? Christmas Carols?

UK indie charts is still a Number 1 single.
She was touring it.

Ive proved both my claims, now lets see you prove yours.

Who were you in that has since achieved 'mind blowing success'?

Okay the ticket stub you posted is for a 900 person capacity venue, how many of the 900 assuming it was a sellout were there to see courts. Around the same time and before Nirvana was already playing bigger venues as a headliner e.g. in 1990 with L7 as the support act at the London Astoria which had a 2000 capacity

There are various UK charts but only one that matters in relation to "stardom" and that's the main chart. Teenage Whore did not even crack the top 75 which is the UK definition of a hit single.

When you consider Teenage Whore was only available in the UK as an import from Germany and didn't receive a UK pressing, I somehow doubt it sales numbers would have exceeded the 40,000 copies that Bleach sold on its release (not "16" as you previously asserted) though I am happy to be proven wrong

My point was some of the bands I played with as a support artist achieving mind blowing success, meaning that as a member of a support band I cannot claim to be a star based on my role as a support act. For example played multiple times supporting the Living End. After I left the band played with The Angels, Rose Tattoo, Mighty Mighty Bosstones, Rancid, The Offspring etc. at venues up to the size of Rod Laver Arena.

I can claim that success as much as courts can claim stardom supporting Mudhoney in a 900 capacity venue.

 

[Exe Gesis]

pwnage galore

 

[William Wonka]

9

Okay the ticket stub you posted is for a 900 person capacity venue, how many of the 900 assuming it was a sellout were there to see courts. Around the same time and before Nirvana was already playing bigger venues as a headliner e.g. in 1990 with L7 as the support act at the London Astoria which had a 2000 capacity

There are various UK charts but only one that matters in relation to "stardom" and that's the main chart. Teenage Whore did not even crack the top 75 which is the UK definition of a hit single.

When you consider Teenage Whore was only available in the UK as an import from Germany and didn't receive a UK pressing, I somehow doubt it sales numbers would have exceeded the 40,000 copies that Bleach sold on its release (not "16" as you previously asserted) though I am happy to be proven wrong

My point was some of the bands I played with as a support artist achieving mind blowing success, meaning that as a member of a support band I cannot claim to be a star based on my role as a support act. For example played multiple times supporting the Living End. After I left the band played with The Angels, Rose Tattoo, Mighty Mighty Bosstones, Rancid, The Offspring etc. at venues up to the size of Rod Laver Arena.

I can claim that success as much as courts can claim stardom supporting Mudhoney in a 900 capacity venue.

Charts you say?
Like the ones Bleach failed to reach any of.

You've shifted far away from your original statement re. comparing yourself to Courtney fronting Faith no more I see?
This is a separate thing to Hole touring with Mudhoney btw.

Anyway the irrefutable facts remains:
Courtney had a musical career independent of Kurt before they met and was achieving moderate success of a level easily comparable to him.

To suggest she was a golddigger is plain wrong.
If anything she was a talent scout.

 

[Exe Gesis]

delusional

 

[Twoslabs]

Charts you say?
Like the ones Bleach failed to reach any of.

You've shifted far away from your original statement re. comparing yourself to Courtney fronting Faith no more I see?
This is a separate thing to Hole touring with Mudhoney btw.

Anyway the irrefutable facts remains:
Courtney had a musical career independent of Kurt before they met and was achieving moderate success of a level easily comparable to him.

To suggest she was a golddigger is plain wrong.
If anything she was a talent scout.

Okay I'll break it down here champ ...

You were the one that mentioned charts as a barometer of success, I merely pointed out that the UK Indie chart has no bearing on true success. True success is sales because when your record sells you actually get $$$ from it. You will still not respond to your assertion that Bleach sold "16" copies, compared to the 40K Bleach shifted pre Nevermind

Um where the * did I compare myself to the junkie? You were the one the one that said because she was in band that had success years after she was booted means she's a mega star and the fact she was playing live meant she was a star, I merely pointed out that myself a "nobody" from Pakenham had supported bands that have had success. If that's your measure of stardom, then bow down peasant.

Oh how you change your story, originally she was far more successful, now it's "achieving moderate success of a level easily comparable to him".

To quote the real Willy Wonka "You get NOTHING"

 

[Twoslabs]

delusional

I don't won't it to stop, maybe courts gave him a gobby in Glasgow many years ago and he's holding out for a relationship

 

[Exe Gesis]

Okay I'll break it down here champ ...

You were the one that mentioned charts as a barometer of success, I merely pointed out that the UK Indie chart has no bearing on true success. True success is sales because when your record sells you actually get $$$ from it. You will still not respond to your assertion that Bleach sold "16" copies, compared to the 40K Bleach shifted pre Nevermind

Um where the fu** did I compare myself to the junkie? You were the one the one that said because she was in band that had success years after she was booted means she's a mega star and the fact she was playing live meant she was a star, I merely pointed out that myself a "nobody" from Pakenham had supported bands that have had success. If that's your measure of stardom, then bow down peasant.

Oh how you change your story, originally she was far more successful, now it's "achieving moderate success of a level easily comparable to him".

To quote the real Willy Wonka "You get NOTHING"

and count the fact that the name "Courtney Love" did not garner major media attention in the US (which is important, seeing as that's where her and Kurt are based as music acts), until 1992....when she married Kurt.

from 1988 to 1992 she was a nobody, a fringe indy artist who hung out at gigs banging more nameworthy musicians, and looking to latch onto one on the way up.

during that time of 1988 to 1992, Kurt went from being an Indy riser to a certified rock god. and THEN Courtney married him. and THEN in the US the name "Courtney Love" became known.

 

[Exe Gesis]

and THEN she had him killed because he was trying to divorce her (meaning she would get none of his money, they had a pre-nup), and Kurt wanted to instead take Frances away from her and her druggie lifestyle, got clean, and wanted to make a better home for Frances and him by probably marrying Hole's bassist, Kristen Pfaff, whom he had started to fall for and Courtney was aware of it.

but by having Kurt "commit suicide", Courtney would get Kurt's entire estate.

 

[William Wonka]

Okay I'll break it down here champ ...

You were the one that mentioned charts as a barometer of success, I merely pointed out that the UK Indie chart has no bearing on true success. True success is sales because when your record sells you actually get $$$ from it. You will still not respond to your assertion that Bleach sold "16" copies, compared to the 40K Bleach shifted pre Nevermind

Um where the fu** did I compare myself to the junkie? You were the one the one that said because she was in band that had success years after she was booted means she's a mega star and the fact she was playing live meant she was a star, I merely pointed out that myself a "nobody" from Pakenham had supported bands that have had success. If that's your measure of stardom, then bow down peasant.

Oh how you change your story, originally she was far more successful, now it's "achieving moderate success of a level easily comparable to him".

Let me break it down for you.

She was far more successful.

She charted, he didn't.

Bleach took two plus years to move 40k, she surpassed that in a short period of time.

She had movie credits and had fronted a band that went on to mega stardom (not supported).

Discount her achievements all you want, its easy to do- they were insignificant.
However they outshone Kurts.

I don't won't it to stop, maybe courts gave him a gobby in Glasgow many years ago and he's holding out for a relationship

Shes a dumb ******* pig.
No matter how much you want to idolize Kurt, before Nevermind he was a comparative nobody.

 

[Lebbo73]

Charts you say?
Like the ones Bleach failed to reach any of.

You've shifted far away from your original statement re. comparing yourself to Courtney fronting Faith no more I see?
This is a separate thing to Hole touring with Mudhoney btw.

Anyway the irrefutable facts remains:
Courtney had a musical career independent of Kurt before they met and was achieving moderate success of a level easily comparable to him.

To suggest she was a golddigger is plain wrong.
If anything she was a talent Killer.

EFA