Socceroos to face another cup shootout

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Thread starter #1
http://www.thewest.com.au/20031015/sport/soccer/tw-sport-soccer-home-sto114290.html


By Michael Cockerill

SYDNEY

AUSTRALIA is likely to face another sudden-death encounter with a South American team in its bid to reach the 2006 soccer World Cup finals in Germany.

FIFA seems certain to reject Oceania moves for a four-team play-off tournament involving the Oceania qualifier - likely to be the Socceroos - and Asia, North/Central America and South America.

Acting Oceania Football Confederation president Tautulu Roebeck of Samoa and New Zealand representative Charlie Dempsey will attend this week's FIFA meeting in Doha, Qatar.

But all indications are they are fighting a losing battle to retrieve their position.

Recent blood-letting within the OFC, which led to president Basil Scarsella's resignation following a vote of no confidence, is being blamed.

The new Australian Soccer Association hierarchy, which strongly supported Scarsella, has also sent one of its officials, Michael Thompson to argue for a four-team tournament.

He will be allowed five minutes to make a presentation to the World Cup Bureau. However Thompson, a former employee of FIFA's marketing department, is also likely to discover the key deals have already been done.

Asia and North/Central America have confirmed to FIFA their wish to play off against each other and emphasised they did not want to pursue an alternative formula.

South America has told FIFA it does not care who it plays off against but vehemently opposes a four-team tournament.

Oceania's best hopes of avoiding the South Americans rest on the World Cup Bureau agreeing to draw the four names out of a hat. But that, too, looks a long shot.

The bureau, which meets tomorrow, will make its recommendations to the FIFA executive meeting on Friday and protocol suggests the proposal to force the Oceania winner into a play-off with a South American country will be rubber-stamped.

The OFC has lost the support of FIFA president Sepp Blatter who might have argued the Oceania cause had Scarsella remained in charge.

Blatter has despaired at the removal of his close ally and FIFA has taken such a dim view of the OFC's in-fighting that the issue has become an agenda item for the executive meeting.

The bad news for Oceania might not end there. Plans to re-launch the World Club Championship are in the balance.

The WCC was established in 2000 but postponed in 2001 after the collapse of FIFA's marketing partners. It is a potential lifeline to Australia's struggling clubs who hope to see the tournament restored to the FIFA calendar for 2005.

Europe, and to a lesser extent South America, remain opposed to the re-introduction of the tournament, a pet project of Blatter's.

The one encouraging decision for Australia is a green light for Millwall midfielder Tim Cahill to represent the Socceroos.

Cahill, 23, has fought a nine-year battle to play for Australia.

FIFA seems certain to clear the way for new dual nationality rules to come into force on January 1.

Despite being born in Australia, Cahill has been unable to wear the green and gold because of a brief appearance for Samoa as a 14-year-old.
 

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CarterS

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#2
If Australia are to make it to the World Cup it's clear that we won't only have to fight a South American team far better prepared than us, but also the Fifa red tape.

Can't see Oceania ever really being on the end of a good decision from Fifa. We do bring it upon themselves partly though, or at least give them the opportunity to make excuses.
 
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#3
So we continue to be served a grave injustice- no equality in the world game what so ever. We can't be given the same kind of qualifying process like everyone else, in which we have a fixed route with time to prepare against our opponents.

FIFA continues to pander to the interests of the AFC, CONCACAF and COMNEBOL and cares little about the quality of play in the process.

The only solution is to either give us a direct place, or put us in another region. These are the only two fair and decent options.

Yes, we are aware of the enormous chasm that exists in Oceania but doesn't a gap exist in every other region too? If you look at the AFC, CONCACAF and COMNEBOL qualifiers, you'd be nuts not to qualify from those groups. The USA, Mexico, Brazil and Argentina can all survive bouts of poor form and still walk into the World Cup. In Europe and Africa this isn't the case since you have several groups with one or at the most two teams qualifying from each, teams really can't afford to choke there.
 

moomba

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#4
For a start, why don't we wait until the decision has officially been made before we start ranting against FIFA. IF it happens, and I don't like the setup either, all we have to do to qualify is beat the opponent put in front of us over two legs.

Despite the difficulties we have in preparation, if we can't beat another side over two legs I can't see how we can say we are more deserving of qualification.

This constant whinging about FIFA, just re-enforces the view to supporters, media and players that we are incapable of beating a South American team in a playoff, how about we say what the f**k, we have a hard draw, let's forget about it now and concentrate on winning the damn thing.

Moomba
 

Ray Nolan

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#5
Furious!:mad: Oceania is a waste of time for us, we should quit the Confederation now. We don't need to be a member of a particular confederation to qualify for the World Cup, Sepp Blatter has already made this clear. He has said that if we are without a confederation FIFA have to put us somewhere (Like Israel & Chinese Taipei used to be) to qualify for the tournament. Getting put into a group phase anywhere in the world would be better than the current farcical qualifying process through Oceania. Lowy and the ASA really need to seriously consider this course of action if this is again to be our qualifying path.
 

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#6
Originally posted by moomba
This constant whinging about FIFA, just re-enforces the view to supporters, media and players that we are incapable of beating a South American team in a playoff, how about we say what the f**k, we have a hard draw, let's forget about it now and concentrate on winning the damn thing.
I am not saying that you are wrong. Yes Socceroos may be good enough to beat a South American team over two legs, but it is in our absolute best interests to fight for the best possible draw so that our chances of qualifying are higher.
I reckon they should just put us into the Asian qualifying section
 
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What ****s me is how the US get in every ****ing year. We are soooooo much better than them the US should have to play a south american team and we can have there easy route to the world cup.
 
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Originally posted by KiNgCliVe26
What ****s me is how the US get in every ****ing year. We are soooooo much better than them the US should have to play a south american team and we can have there easy route to the world cup.
Well, world rankings and the fact they made the Quarter Finals at the last World Cup, say your wrong.
 

tribey

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#9
Originally posted by robbieando
Well, world rankings and the fact they made the Quarter Finals at the last World Cup, say your wrong.
Oh please. First and foremost, FIFA Rankings are worth a squirt of cat's p|ss.

Secondly, the Americans were no more than less dodgy than a host of dodgy sides in a very poor world cup in 2002. Firstly they only just scraped into the World Cup despite CONCACAF having three direct qualification places.

Then at Korea/Japan their results were mixed and were favoured by a friendly draw to say the least:

USA 3-2 POR - Half an hour of good football against a lacklustre Portugal side that came home with a rush.
USA 1-1 SKO - Drew with the hosts before they started shocking the world off the back of dodgy referees and linesmen.
USA 1-3 POL - Hammered by Poland.

USA 2-0 MEX - Beat a middling Mexican side.
USA 0-1 GER - Shaded by Germany B.

Individually the United States have five decent players and three of them are goalkeepers:

John O'Brien (Ajax)
Claudio Reyna (Man City)
Brad Friedel (Blackburn)
Tim Howard (Man Utd)
Kasey Keller (Tottenham)

Compare these guys to Kewell, Viduka, Bresciano, Emerton, Kalac, Schwarzer, Grella, Neill, Moore, etc etc and the army of other Aussies Abroad playing regular first team football across Europe.

Then again, why play in the English Premiership, Serie A, La Liga, Le Championnat, Bundesliga, Scottish Premiership or Ere Divisie when you can hide in the MLS and walk to the World Cup every four years?
 

GOALden Hawk

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#10
Screwed by the corrupt scum of FIFA again.

The likes of Saudi Arabia and Costa Rica don't want to play us because they know they will be thrashed.

Every other confederate gives their teams a 2nd chance. OFC have none.

Let's go to Asia.
 

Jeffers

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#11
Originally posted by dyertribe
Individually the United States have five decent players and three of them are goalkeepers:

John O'Brien (Ajax)
Claudio Reyna (Man City)
Brad Friedel (Blackburn)
Tim Howard (Man Utd)
Kasey Keller (Tottenham)
Your forgetting two of their stars of that world cup, Landon Donavon who will be a superstar and Run DMB Demarcus Beasly who will also be a handy asset once he gets away from the dreaded MLS.

USA have an awesome youth program $$$ and can only get better in the next few world cups. And *groan will probably be up in the knockout rounds again
 

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Thread starter #12
Originally posted by dyertribe


Compare these guys to Kewell, Viduka, Bresciano, Emerton, Kalac, Schwarzer, Grella, Neill, Moore, etc etc and the army of other Aussies Abroad playing regular first team football across Europe.

Then again, why play in the English Premiership, Serie A, La Liga, Le Championnat, Bundesliga, Scottish Premiership or Ere Divisie when you can hide in the MLS and walk to the World Cup every four years?

Well said dyertribe.

But small alteration i would have made;)

Compare these guys to Kewell, Viduka, Bresciano, Despotovski, Emerton, Kalac, Schwarzer, Grella, Neill, Moore, etc etc and the army of other Aussies Abroad playing regular first team football across Europe.
;)
 

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#13
Originally posted by Jeffers1984
Your forgetting two of their stars of that world cup, Landon Donavon who will be a superstar and Run DMB Demarcus Beasly who will also be a handy asset once he gets away from the dreaded MLS.

USA have an awesome youth program $$$ and can only get better in the next few world cups. And *groan will probably be up in the knockout rounds again
Landon 'Cant get a game at Leverkusen' Donovan?

DaMarcus 'Stick Figure' Beasley?

I think Clint Mathis and Taylor Twellman would be mighty p1ssed you didnt give them a mention.
 

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#14
Originally posted by KiNgCliVe26
Well said dyertribe.

But small alteration i would have made;)

Compare these guys to Kewell, Viduka, Bresciano, Despotovski, Emerton, Kalac, Schwarzer, Grella, Neill, Moore, etc etc and the army of other Aussies Abroad playing regular first team football across Europe.
;)
Desptovski is not playing in Europe champ - he's playing in the NSL.
 

tribey

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#15
Originally posted by Jeffers1984
Your forgetting two of their stars of that world cup, Landon Donavon who will be a superstar and Run DMB Demarcus Beasly who will also be a handy asset once he gets away from the dreaded MLS.
No I'm well aware of Landon Donovan mate. He's the player that couldn't break into the Leverkusen first team and was loaned back to the MLS - gee what a superstar.

As for DeMarcus Beasley... ever heard of Simon Colosimo?
 
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#17
The Roquey road to the World Cup...

Watching my beloved Everton ruthlessly demolish Leeds brought ilimitable joy to us Blues. Whether it was Watson's brilliant hat-trick, or McFadden's flicks and tricks, or Big Dunc back to what he does best.

But to understand the significance of the game to us Down Under, you'll have to look at the opponents Everton played. Leeds United. Managed by Everton legend Peter Reid, to say that the club is a shambles on and off the field would be an understatement. The team put out on the day was seemingly patched together from whatever loan deals Reid was able to work out. Their inability to offer even token resistance to wave after wave of Everton attacks was alarming.

But even more alarming, and this does have significance in the topic on hand, was the incredible howlers committed by one player in particular by the name of Roque Junior. A Brazilian international currently on loan from AC Milan and can boast a World Cup winners' medal on his CV. Judging by the horror show he put on at Everton, as well as against Birmingham and Leicester, you'd have a very hard time believing it.

Why is this so significant to Australia? A lot of our foreign contingent have been in action throughout Europe. Let the names roll out. Zejlko Kalac. Lucas Neill. Craig Moore. Brett Emerton. Marco Bresciano. Stan Lazaridis. Mark Viduka. Harry Kewell. I can't remember any of these fine footballers putting a foot wrong in recent weeks! If anything, they've won critical acclaim for their performances in key positions for their respective clubs, all of which are top-flight clubs in European leagues.

For years now, our footballing credentials have been looked down upon by The Powers That Be, by ignorant fans and by those which I will best describe as "sheeple". I call them that because like sheep, they are unable to think for themselves, put things into perspective, and follow a lead where one is given. And never has this been more relevant than it is in the world of football, particularly in matters where Australia are concerned.

Let's turn the clock back to 2001, when Australia's bid to reach the 2002 World Cup got underway. Our Oceania group stage qualifiers raked up 66 goals against opposition which will make your local pub team look like world beaters. You'd expect Australian fans to be delighted with the statistics, and with the records our team set during that campaign. We weren't.

Instead, one result in particular (31-0 over American Samoa) was roundly condemned locally and internationally, as an indicator that Oceania is an uncompetitive region and that its very existence as a separate "continent" in world football was a disgrace. You won't find many of us disagreeing with that.

But later that year, an Australia side still not at full strength took part in the Confederations Cup as Oceania's representatives and took a very credible 3rd place. Our performances included an excellent 1-0 win over a France side that boasted names all too familiar to us in Robert Pires and Patrick Viera. We also disposed of Mexico in the tournament, which also has significance.

After beating New Zealand home and away in the World Cup qualifiers, we were left to agonise over who we would play next. Ecuador? Brazil? Uruguay? Colombia? Peru? All very different teams, we don't know which one we would play, and we were thus unable to work out how exactly we would overcome any of them. In the end it was Uruguay, and our 3-0 defeat in Montevideo saw us eliminated once more. But did we expect to win in Montevideo? Not likely, seeing that Brazil and Argentina couldn't, and that this Uruguay side had actually been playing as one unit for 18 games and had the time to prepare for this game.

Four years earlier, we came agonisingly close. In a two-legged play-off against Iran, we only went out on away goals despite being 2-0 up in Melbourne at one stage. And yet, we won't begrudge Iran (who then boasted Bagheri, Ali Daei and Azizi, all of whom capable of performing at the highest level) because they went on to prove they were the best side in the AFC by far in France '98.

Four years earlier, a freak own goal for an Argentina side which then boasted Diego Maradona (and according to Argentine fans was arguably better than the '86 and '90 sides) cost us a place in the World Cup.

Nothing represents the grave injustices committed against Australia as this. Every knowledgeable football supporter KNOWS that a full strength Australia has rarely if ever been disgraced at the highest level. But yet, what does FIFA do?

They've NEVER given us the chance to prove ourselves. In 2002, however, it looked as if we would be rewarded when Oceania was given a direct place in the World Cup.

And what was the reply? We heard whining, from the Americas and Asia of all places, that we were handed a free ride to the World Cup. We would qualify every time. Amidst the clamour, these people fail to see the astonishing hypocrisy of their anti-Australian tirades. They fail to see that the COMNEBOL, CONCACAF and AFC qualifiers ensure that you'd be insane not to qualify from those groups. This was done to ensure that (1) Argentina and Brazil could walk through to the World Cup even with bouts of very poor form and (2) the highly lucrative AFC and CONCACAF market will continue to bling bling into FIFA's pockets. Not to mention the fact that several other teams are pretty much assured of WC qualification for various reasons anyway.

People claim we are not good enough, when we have proven that we ARE good enough. People also claim there is no real quality in Oceania and that a huge chasm exists. But yet, the one question people have never asked themselves is...

Doesn't a chasm also exist in EVERY other confederation? Isn't everything relative? Even in Europe? And shouldn't the accomplishments of various much touted and hyped up teams be put into perspective?

The answer to the above questions is a most definite yes. Admittedly, teams in the other confederations are better than the teams we've faced in Oceania. They may make us work harder for our wins but are they as good as we can be? Do they have the stars who are key performers for European clubs? Are even the "major powers" always as great as they're hyped up to be?

I think the answer to that is pretty obvious, from the results in recent years and also from the stark contrast between Australia's key performers and someone who can boast a WC winners' medal.

Where is the justice in all this? FIFA talks of a football family, but have we ever seen that in practice? We Australians strongly value a fair go and have every right to feel wronged. All we ask is for fairness and equality, to be given a path to the World Cup that is fair to us. Either give us a direct spot, or put us in another region. There are no other decent alternatives.

From both inside and outside, they may rubbish us, they may try and sabotage us, but they will NOT stop the game is making in Australia, or Australia is making in world football. Not now, not ever.
 
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#18
i just wanted to commend your lengthy comments (although you support everton). a great read. surely we need a non-self-destructing SA to aid our cause, as Sepp has said himself I believe.

there is no argument that our path is grossly unfair. compare it to the upcoming euro qualifiers. those ten teams all had the chance to qualify via a regular home and away format. now they get a second chance.

it's obvious that this does not equate with oceania's/australia's path to the world cup. sure we've come close, especially against Iran, but I think we're almost certain to lose on aggregate every time we come to face a uruguay, argentina, brazil (it nearly happened), etc.

in the past two world cup qualifying campaigns, we have only lost a solitary game. uruguay lost 8 just qualifying for last year's tournament, and they made it!
 

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#19
Originally posted by moomba
For a start, why don't we wait until the decision has officially been made before we start ranting against FIFA. IF it happens, and I don't like the setup either, all we have to do to qualify is beat the opponent put in front of us over two legs.

Despite the difficulties we have in preparation, if we can't beat another side over two legs I can't see how we can say we are more deserving of qualification.

This constant whinging about FIFA, just re-enforces the view to supporters, media and players that we are incapable of beating a South American team in a playoff, how about we say what the f**k, we have a hard draw, let's forget about it now and concentrate on winning the damn thing.

Moomba
Again I don't disagree with a lot of what you say but we are severely handicapped by the fact that the South Americans will have had 20 games of real tough qualifying soccer and we will go in on the back of a few friendlies. Huge difference here, absolutely enormous.
 
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#20
Funny how we get singled out for poor organisation of the game here, even if we do admit it, when...

...countries like Brazil among others have been able to get away with corrupt and incompetent organisation for years. Which only shows how unfair FIFA have been to us.
 

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#21
Originally posted by moomba
For a start, why don't we wait until the decision has officially been made before we start ranting against FIFA. IF it happens, and I don't like the setup either, all we have to do to qualify is beat the opponent put in front of us over two legs.

Despite the difficulties we have in preparation, if we can't beat another side over two legs I can't see how we can say we are more deserving of qualification.

This constant whinging about FIFA, just re-enforces the view to supporters, media and players that we are incapable of beating a South American team in a playoff, how about we say what the f**k, we have a hard draw, let's forget about it now and concentrate on winning the damn thing.

Moomba
Thank you, a sensible post amongst a sea of sooks and whingers.

Stop pointing the fingers at everyone else people, look in your own backyard first.
 

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#22
Everyone else has overlooked it but I'm glad Cahill has a chance to play for Australia. Bresciano, Grella, Cahill, some depth in the midfield at last, now for some defenders....
 
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#23
Originally posted by GOALden Hawk
Screwed by the corrupt scum of FIFA again.

The likes of Saudi Arabia and Costa Rica don't want to play us because they know they will be thrashed.

Every other confederate gives their teams a 2nd chance. OFC have none.

Let's go to Asia.
I agree with you, but the bottom line is: Asia doesnt want us.
 

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#24
Originally posted by robbieando
Well, world rankings and the fact they made the Quarter Finals at the last World Cup, say your wrong.
I think what the original poster was saying is that with the players we have we should be better. With a full team at say a World Cup I'd say we'd have a good hard tussle with the Seppos. Harry, despite being a trite bastard, has shown that he can turn the best defenders in the world inside out. The Yanks would be no different I'm sure. We have far more individual ability man for man than the Yanks do I think.

We have shown that we can not only compete with the best, but even beat them on a good day.

The questions as to why we aren't as good as say the US, well have you got 5 hours. :rolleyes: :mad: :confused:

JF
 

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#25
Originally posted by Unwritten_Law
Everyone else has overlooked it but I'm glad Cahill has a chance to play for Australia. Bresciano, Grella, Cahill, some depth in the midfield at last, now for some defenders....
So how good is this Cahill bloke. We've heard about him in the same way we heard about Jean-Marc Bosman.

But can he actually play? I know little about him abilitywise.

JF
 
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