Society and Culture BF style

[VineValerian]

Not sure, but I had a vague recollection from Uni days 40 years ago that anthropologists use the terms (or used to) *********, Caucasoid and Negroid (scientific name homo sapiens Africus negreus) to delineate the three major human population groups emanating from what we refer to as Asia/Middle East, Europe and Africa?

Anybody also recollect this? Apparently these terms originated in the 18th Century or something.

My memory may not be as good as it used to be though

Hence the Yank abbreviation to Negro - then morphing over time into the derogatory and offensive term "fellow".

And as someone earlier pointed out, some European countries use a term similar to "negro" in their language to mean "black" skinned.

Back on topic, I would have thought the term "oriental" in the original context of the article in question was not meant to refer to a people or race (which could well be offensive - I am not up to speed on those issues I'm afraid), but rather an area that used to be known as the "Orient" or Eastern Asia.

 

[Ando39]

Not sure, but I had a vague recollection from Uni days 40 years ago that anthropologists use the terms (or used to) *********, Caucasoid and Negroid (scientific name homo sapiens Africus negreus) to delineate the three major human population groups emanating from what we refer to as Asia/Middle East, Europe and Africa?

Anybody also recollect this? Apparently these terms originated in the 18th Century or something.

My memory may not be as good as it used to be though

Hence the Yank abbreviation to Negro - then morphing over time into the derogatory and offensive term "fellow".

And as someone earlier pointed out, some European countries use a term similar to "negro" in their language to mean "black" skinned.

Back on topic, I would have thought the term "oriental" in the original context of the article in question was not meant to refer to a people or race (which could well be offensive - I am not up to speed on those issues I'm afraid), but rather an area that used to be known as the "Orient" or Eastern Asia.

I dont know about anthropologists, but I do know that in Latin the word for black is 'niger' (vaguely pronounced as "nee-jer"), giving us quite a solid history of the racial slur.

 

[Pappagallo]

Getting back to the game for a brief moment, I wonder how many people from the West will be in attendence? Do you think they will outnumber those from the Orient?

 

[chiwigi]

[QUOTE="Andre, post: 36894467, member: f nations?! Now if it was 'true' Asian nations that would be one thing, but the Gulf nations are fringe Asian geographically even more than Australia
You makethe same mistake I made for a decade or so, Asian doesnt mean just Oriental. There are 2 billion non Oriental Asian.
Watch UK news services and when they talk Asians they mainly are talking about Indians, Pakis and arabs.

I can absolutely assure you that the UK NEWS SERVICE WILLNEVER say Pakis.
It isn't offensive in Australia, but in the U.K. It is akin to the N word.

 

[chiwigi]

A foolish man takes offence when no offence was intended. A wise man learns not to take offence when it is.

You are missing the point, we aren't offended, but that doesn't mean those who are offended and hurt by such terms shouldn't have our support. Not because of their 'feelings', but because it materially affects their lives.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I can absolutely assure you that the UK NEWS SERVICE WILLNEVER say Pakis.
It isn't offensive in Australia, but in the U.K. It is akin to the N word.

I never said they did or would. I used Paki because its not an offensive word in Oz.

I suspect its offensive in UK because it usually was accompanied by a f***ing Paki or Paki c***. In Oz it is the standard shortening a word or putting an i or y at the end of a word.

 

[chiwigi]

I never said they did or would. I used Paki because its not an offensive word in Oz.

I suspect its offensive in UK because it usually was accompanied by a f***ing Paki or Paki c***. In Oz it is the standard shortening a word or putting an i or y at the end of a word.

I know mate, was just pointing it out, it jars when Aussies say it, but I don't say anything because it doesn't have the connotation here.

 

[Tredz]

You are missing the point, we aren't offended, but that doesn't mean those who are offended and hurt by such terms shouldn't have our support.

Appreciate your response. I don't believe the quote I posted said or implied that those who may be offended shouldn't have our support - that doesn't mean however I also need to take offense with the object with which they have found offensive. Being offended is individually subjective (and in my opinion quite fruitless), what offends one individual may not offend another. If someone looks long and hard enough I'm sure they can find someone who will be offended by almost anything that someone else says or does and then proclaim with great indignation how they have been wronged, cheated and/or offended. Unfortunately these days even compliments and certain acts of respect (ie holding a door for someone) are oft times construed as offensive. Hence my original quote - if something is said (or done) with no intended offense then why be offended? and if something is said with the intent of being offensive - it doesn't make it true.

 

[1954]

I know mate, was just pointing it out, it jars when Aussies say it, but I don't say anything because it doesn't have the connotation here.

I remember Spike Milligan's Curry and Chips, which was shown on late night tv ( for the time ), in the late 70's.

I've often wondered how Milligan's black face make up, Paki Paddy character, and racist over tones went down in the UK, as it was probably his least successful show here, and from memory only lasted 1 or 2 series.

 

[chiwigi]

Appreciate your response. I don't believe the quote I posted said or implied that those who may be offended shouldn't have our support - that doesn't mean however I also need to take offense with the object with which they have found offensive. Being offended is individually subjective (and in my opinion quite fruitless), what offends one individual may not offend another. If someone looks long and hard enough I'm sure they can find someone who will be offended by almost anything that someone else says or does and then proclaim with great indignation how they have been wronged, cheated and/or offended. Unfortunately these days even compliments and certain acts of respect (ie holding a door for someone) are oft times construed as offensive. Hence my original quote - if something is said (or done) with no intended offense then why be offended? and if something is said with the intent of being offensive - it doesn't make it true.

Because it is possible to be unintentionally offensive (and therefore contributing to subjugation of a person because of their race or gender), particularly if one is unaware of the cultural and historical issues surrounding it. Blackface in Australia is a good example, many didn't realise how bad it was and the implications and saw that as justification for doing it, however we no longer live in a national vacuum and need to be aware of the greater implications, particularly with our history of treatment of the indigenous people.

 

[Tredz]

Because it is possible to be unintentionally offensive (and therefore contributing to subjugation of a person because of their race or gender), particularly if one is unaware of the cultural and historical issues surrounding it. Blackface in Australia is a good example, many didn't realise how bad it was and the implications and saw that as justification for doing it, however we no longer live in a national vacuum and need to be aware of the greater implications, particularly with our history of treatment of the indigenous people.

Again you make a very valid argument - it is indeed possible to be unintentionally offensive. The question is however does the onus of responsibility and guilt then fall upon the offender or the offended?

If I were to take offense at your last response (and I wasn't by the way) even though you may have had no intention of offending me - does that mean the onus is on you to modify your response(s) in future or do I need to modify how I react to your response(s)? My argument is that I can choose myself to either be offended or not - therefore regardless of your intentions I'm the one that is ultimately empowered by the interaction.

Hope you don't find any of this offensive.

 

[glitch01]

I'm offended by these Filipino peanuts........

 

[raptalia]

It might be the onset of advancing senility but I find myself agreeing with Graham Cornes. Cornes' article on page 6 of today's Monopoly times says it all.

Anthony Mundine says he wants to 'educate not divide Australians'. Perhaps the first person to be educated should be Mr Mundine because all this sort of nonsense does is divide us. The very first line of the anthem refers to 'Australians all' which is evidently lost on Mundine.

Mundine's belief that all Australians are not free is lame and misguided. Those Australians who find themselves incarcerated are usually there because they deserve to be. The cynic in me says this is all a ploy to drum up business, surely Mundine cannot believe what he is trying to have us believe.

 

[Pt Augusta Power]

Free country. He can protest if he likes, isn't that okay? We all listen to many a divisive person in Australia. Mundine has been vocal about this in the past so it is no surprise he will take this stance. It is a peaceful protest, I think that is okay.

I really don't give a rats about our NA, it is pretty lame. Having said that, I will stand at an event.

It is a courageous move, controversial and yet...... may just sell a few extra tickets to an event that is quite underwhelming.

 

[Steve Dore]

And this relates to footy how?

 

[mic59]

Mundine is not even original in this protest. Colin Kaepernick sat down during the national anthem before a Niners/Green Bay Packers game. But with the tension between police and killing of black unarmed suspects in America he had a much more valid complaint than Mundine.

On a lighter note -

I bought one of these when it came out. But she wasn't wearing underpants then. Some stores wouldn't stock the one with the naked woman on the bike or the centrefold with the nude bike race but Mitcham Records wasn't one of them.

 

[Lou Zyffer]

I'm no Mundine fan but aboriginal deaths in custody anyone? "Young" & free. 40,000+ years of aboriginal culture probably says otherwise.

AAF isn't at all representative of aboriginal culture. It's meh to me but I understand why many aboriginals are offended by it.

 

[JohnHinckleyJr]

I'm no Mundine fan but aboriginal deaths in custody anyone? "Young" & free. 40,000+ years of aboriginal culture probably says otherwise.

AAF isn't at all representative of aboriginal culture. It's meh to me but I understand why many aboriginals are offended by it.

Lol

 

[bomberclifford]

Aren't we taking the lyrics to the national anthem just a little too literally?

 

[Lou Zyffer]

Aren't we taking the lyrics to the national anthem just a little too literally?

It's not about what anglo saxons think about the lyrics bomber. That's why I said it's "meh" to me. It's about empathy. It's about what it says to an entire culture. It's also why I understand celebrating January 26 is offensive to many aboriginals.

 

[OneGreatClub]

I have always hated our anthem. No-one knows the words anyway, and that melody ugh. We need something more catchy and appropriate.

 

[Trewth]

I'm no Mundine fan but aboriginal deaths in custody anyone? "Young" & free. 40,000+ years of aboriginal culture probably says otherwise.

AAF isn't at all representative of aboriginal culture. It's meh to me but I understand why many aboriginals are offended by it.

I've been waiting 2 days for someone to point this out. Good post.

 

[Wayne Dwop]

This clown respects aboriginal culture so much that he converted to Islam years ago.

 

[Lou Zyffer]

I have always hated our anthem. No-one knows the words anyway, and that melody ugh. We need something more catchy and appropriate.

Way before I could vote there was a referendum to decide our national anthem which would replace GSTQ. In primary school we sang GSTQ & The Song of Australia.

As I recall the lyrics...

There is a land where Summer skies
Are gleaming with a thousand dyes
Blending in witching harmony
In harmony
And grassy knoll and forest height
Are flushing in the rosey light
And all above is azure bright
Australia Australia
Australia.

It's also 3 or 4 verses long and years ago when looking up AAF I also looked up the full version of TSOA and both refer to England as the motherland. AAF mentions Cook sailing from Britain's shores and TSOA mentions "the brightest of England's daughters" or something similar so they both have that 'failing'.

IMO though TSOA is a much better melody. Probably find it on YouTube.

 

[Grave Danger]

Way before I could vote there was a referendum to decide our national anthem which would replace GSTQ. In primary school we sang GSTQ & The Song of Australia.

As I recall the lyrics...

There is a land where Summer skies
Are gleaming with a thousand dyes
Blending in witching harmony
In harmony
And grassy knoll and forest height
Are flushing in the rosey light
And all above is azure bright
Australia Australia
Australia.

It's also 3 or 4 verses long and years ago when looking up AAF I also looked up the full version of TSOA and both refer to England as the motherland. AAF mentions Cook sailing from Britain's shores and TSOA mentions "the brightest of England's daughters" or something similar so they both have that 'failing'.

IMO though TSOA is a much better melody. Probably find it on YouTube.

Good ol YouTube:



Just need Julie Anthony to jazz it up a bit